Poll: Anwar al-Awlaki's Death: Justice or Assassination?

[Caravelle]

"I mean if we had captured Hitler would we have given him due process?"

Yep. Look up the Nuremberg trials.

"But then again, I'm also one of those guys who pretty much thinks that in most cases when there is a confession you can pretty much just forego the trial."

It's what usually happens in totalitarian regimes. Unless they go for a show trial. Democratic countries are usually aware that coerced confessions are a real problem and that even in cases of evident guilt it is good to put all the cards on the table and have the facts of the case and the appropriate punishment decided by a third party that's separate from the accused, the accusers and the executive.

 

[mjc0961]

Some people and politicians have claimed that, despite the fact that al-Awlaki was an obvious threat to the security of America, his death might lead the government down a slippery slope of approved assassination of problem citizens, as now we know that just because you are born in the U.S. doesn't protect you from federal assassination.

Yeah, maybe that doesn't protect you. You know what does, though? Not being a member of a terrorist organization who inspires multiple attacks. Yeah, I don't think I'm going worry too much about my government coming to assassinate me anytime soon.

 

[spectrenihlus]

I love obama now. And I voted for the other guy.

That is my take on this situation.

Oh I am a big fan on his foreign policy just not his domestic.

 

[Primus1985]

To quote Salman Rushdie from the recent episode "Real Time W/ Bill Maher": "Ya know I believe there is such a crime as treason in this country, and you give up certain rights when you side with the enemy."


Then Bill quiped "And the punishment for Treason is death if im not mistaken."


Paraphrased slightly but you get my drift.


Thats my opinion on the matter.

 

[Grickit]

Imagine this power (the power to murder American citizens with no trial the moment they leave the country) in the hands of an irresponsible administration.

Yes we hate this target. He was a bad dude. But it's a horrible precedent. Consider all the people with the authority to make this happen. Including the ones that haven't been elected yet. The ones that haven't even been born yet. Do you trust those people to not abuse this? You trust every single one of them?

What if you're just an outspoken protester of some government policy? The current administration hates you. And they're as corrupt as Nixon. You go on a vacation to somewhere remote. You wake up in the middle of the night just in time to see everything around you explode. You're an American citizen, but your government just executed you. No trial. No justice. And it's legal because back in 2011 we let them get away with doing it.


No. The people responsible for this must be punished.

Does the slippery slope your on come with mats i can slide down?
Stop making up the future because your paranoid.

OT
Terrorists=bad, a big influention terrorist being dead is inherently a good thing.

American citizens are innocent until proven guilty. He was never tried, let alone proven guilty.

To quote Salman Rushdie from the recent episode "Real Time W/ Bill Maher": "Ya know I believe there is such a crime as treason in this country, and you give up certain rights when you side with the enemy."


Then Bill quiped "And the punishment for Treason is death if im not mistaken."


Paraphrased slightly but you get my drift.


Thats my opinion on the matter.

Yeah, a crime. And you have to tried and convicted of a crime. You're not automatically guilty just because the CIA says you are.

 

[DarkRyter]

I thought the government has been doing this sort thing for quite awhile, now.

Because war. War never changes.

 

[Primus1985]

American citizens are innocent until proven guilty. He was never tried, let alone proven guilty.

To quote Salman Rushdie from the recent episode "Real Time W/ Bill Maher": "Ya know I believe there is such a crime as treason in this country, and you give up certain rights when you side with the enemy."


Then Bill quiped "And the punishment for Treason is death if im not mistaken."


Paraphrased slightly but you get my drift.


Thats my opinion on the matter.

Yeah, a crime. And you have to tried and convicted of a crime. You're not automatically guilty just because the CIA says you are.

*sigh* Ya know, I love the legal system in the U.S., best in the world in my opinion, has it's flaws sure but no system is perfect. At least "Innocent till proven guilty" gives the defendant equal footing.

However there's a difference between a domestic criminal and someone in a foreign country, who has previously spread terrorist propaganda, collaborated with the enemy, and is actively aiding and/or living with the enemy.

Like Mr Rushdie was talking about, when you actively work with enemies of the state, foreign nationals that plot against this country, you give up certain rights. Would we be having this discussion if one of Al Qaeda leaders happen to be a U.S. citizen? Technically even IF he was captured, and that's a big IF, as someone working with the enemy they could throw him in a deep dark cell in Guantanamo for as long as they wanted to without trial as an enemy combatant. Either way no trail for the douche so your logic is flawed.


From everything Ive read the guy was nuttier than a cheap fruitcake. Terror cells look for extremists individuals like him so they can prepare them to slip back into the states and cause some damage. Their not as stupid as you would think.





What worries me the most is that now Predator drones are armed with high explosives. Is this going to be the future of warfare? Miniature flying camera's with bombs attached being guided by some hick from tim buck too miles away? Kinda takes the humanity out of it, it makes a difference. Well at least since their being guided by a operator that sees what it sees it should in theory cut down on civi casualties, in theory.

 

[Kopikatsu]

What worries me the most is that now Predator drones are armed with high explosives. Is this going to be the future of warfare? Miniature flying camera's with bombs attached being guided by some hick from tim buck too miles away? Kinda takes the humanity out of it, it makes a difference. Well at least since their being guided by a operator that sees what it sees it should in theory cut down on civi casualties, in theory.

Warfare has been that way for a while now. Infantry are primarily used to hold down areas. Once a target has been spotted (Whether by a satellite, recon, soldiers, etc), they just call in an airstrike and bomb the target to hell.

OT: Whether or not it's justice doesn't change the fact that it's an assassination. Not saying that there is anything wrong with it, but a more accurate title of this thread would be 'Was Anwar al Awlaki's assassination justified?'.

I personally have no opinion. However, I am curious as to why people are claiming that it's a major victory in the war on terror. How exactly do you 'defeat' an abstract concept?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I'd have to call it a little of column A a little of column B. After all, you kill some decisively evil dudes in the AC series but the title of the game isn't Justice Creed.

Justice Creed doesn't sound as bad-ass!

OT: I dont really care, it might mean that there is less terrorist attacks or more terrorist attacks. But judging on whats happened after Bin Laden's death the former seems more likely.

 

[loc978]

I'm not sure why law, court cases and such are even being brought up with this. If he had been captured, it would be a different story. He would have received due process. But does anyone who posted here think the man would have given up if a federal agent simply told him he was under arrest? I imagine he was told to return to the US and turn himself in on many an occasion. In essence, he died resisting arrest. The only precedent broken was that he was not, at that moment in time, a clear and present danger to any individual US citizen... but neither was he in the US, or cooperating with federal agents abroad. Once you deny the authority, you lose the protection if you're overseas.

I thought the government has been doing this sort thing for quite awhile, now.

Of course they have... they've also been doing similar things that aren't legally defensible... they just don't let you know about those actions.

 

[RaNDM G]

Who cares if he was a citizen? He was an enemy of the state and the international community. He had to go.

 

[Grickit]

So this American citizen who we murdered without any legal due process at all who never committed any crimes except saying mean things about us and hurting the country's feelbads...

Guess what?

A few days ago we went and blew up his young son at a BBQ party too!


Yeah! Get 'em! Next let's murder his parents! That'll teach him to disagree with America and hang out with violent people without ever committing any acts of violence himself!

Courts? Who needs courts? Fifth amendment? The constitution is for sissies! We murder fifteen year olds. We're America and that's how strong we are! Woooooooooooooooooooooo