Poll: Are dating games misogynistic?

[Bara_no_Hime]

My friend and I were having a discussion today about dating games. She said that because dating games portray women as things to be "won", it objectifies women. She said that it portrays women as a problem for men to overcome. I took the stance that they are probably not misogynistic because they don't actively "hate" women. The discussion got me thinking though, do dating games objectify women?

I suppose it depends on your definition of misogynistic, but... yeah, most dating games are a bit. If for no other reason than they are so vastly one-sided.

This is one reason I love Persona 3 Portable so much. As the male character, I can sleep with all the hot girls. As the FEMALE character, I can sleep with all the hot guys. That's called equality.

Anyway, either way it doesn't bother me too much. There are way worse things as far as sexism goes in games. The best dating games at least TRY to portray complex relationships or tell good stories (or both).

Or, well, Visual Novels do. I've mostly played Visual Novels and the Persona series, so I may be missing the exact sub-genre you're talking about in my personal experience.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Dating games? No. Sex games like "Meet and Fuck "? Yes.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

My friend and I were having a discussion today about dating games. She said that because dating games portray women as things to be "won", it objectifies women. She said that it portrays women as a problem for men to overcome. I took the stance that they are probably not misogynistic because they don't actively "hate" women. The discussion got me thinking though, do dating games objectify women?

I suppose it depends on your definition of misogynistic, but... yeah, most dating games are a bit. If for no other reason than they are so vastly one-sided.

This is one reason I love Persona 3 Portable so much. As the male character, I can sleep with all the hot girls. As the FEMALE character, I can sleep with all the hot guys. That's called equality.

Anyway, either way it doesn't bother me too much. There are way worse things as far as sexism goes in games. The best dating games at least TRY to portray complex relationships or tell good stories (or both).

Or, well, Visual Novels do. I've mostly played Visual Novels and the Persona series, so I may be missing the exact sub-genre you're talking about in my personal experience.

Hamuko also gets to sleep with the little Ken and she gets Aigis too...and Shinji...and Ryoji...I think her relationships are quite a bit more interesting than Minato's, it's actually funny that they wouldn't give the guy an obviously too-young (though they're all underage so whatever...and it is Japan ) or same-sex partner but they did for the girl, it makes her options quite a bit more diverse and interesting in my opinion.

Since "Aigis for life" is my motto when playing p3 though I don't feel cheated, that's the only one I need. I guess it's why I still prefer FES overall...that epilogue...so touching.

 

[Richardplex]

I have the feeling that reading every chapter of The World God Only Knows will not be enough to intelligently post here. Regardless, I shall post my completely opinion:

I think dating sims can go about this two ways. One would be the gaming equivalent of the pick up artist, which I think we all have our own opinion about... hopefully the same one. On the other hand, you can see it as a story based utterly on characterisation. Knowing the character, advancing your relationship with her, then ultimately have her fall in love with you and make her happy.

So basically, whether or not a dating sim/dating game/galge is misogynistic depends on whether or not the player is misogynistic. It allows those who are to be manipulative without anyone being a victim to this (or not, depends on the person again), and those who aren't to go have their awesome/not-so-awesome-YMMV relationship adventure.

Also, here's food for thought: If dating games about women exhibit dislike towards women, do dating games about pigeons exhibit dislike towards pigeons? Do we play pigeon dating sims because we dislike pigeons, or because we like/want-to-like pigeons?

http://hatoful.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/hatoful-boyfriend-in-english/
Yes, this is a thing, enrol now at St. PigeoNation's Institute.

And watch/read World God Only Knows, it's a dating sim parody that's ingenious, hilarious and completely unique.

 

[blizzaradragon]

It entirely depends on the game, as there are some in the genre where the point is the sex and others out there where the point is the relationship. It also comes down to how the game portrays the characters you can go after. Are they flat characters where the obvious reasons to go after them are for things like sex appeal? If so they are misogynistic. Do the girls actually have personalities and flaws like a regular person? If so they aren't, and instead simply taking an aspect of real life and making it into a game.

Most of the dating games I've seen fall into the latter category, so I'd say a majority aren't misogynistic. Or if they are, then that must mean the concept of dating someone in real life is misogynistic as well...

 

[Snowbell]

So visual novels aren't exactly "my bag", but there's got to be a market for ones aimed at women.

Sadly, I'm not sure that there is a market, a lot of the girls I know who read visual novels are very into yaoi and don't really care about a dating sim aimed at female protagonists.

I'd be interested to read a non-erotic, straight female protagonist (a good one though, not a pathetic/easily manipulated one) dating visual novel, mainly to see how I react to it. I tried reading Fate/Stay Night, which has erotic scenes, but I couldn't finish it due to becoming horribly depressed by the fact that I'll never be as good as the girls in the sex/nudity scenes...but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[Gigano]

Obviously not.

First of all, they're fictional, and the people who play them recognize them as such. People who play Call of Duty aren't mass murderers who'll go nuts with an MP5K at any airport either. They know fantasy from reality, and most dating sims would undoubtedly be filed under unrealistic fantasy.

Now, if they took it to real life and were aiming to be pick up artists who were trying to "raise the score" in order to bed actual women, that'd possibly be rather jerkish (if not exactly unethical, women are quite capable of being consenting adults who just want some casual sex of their own).

There's also games aimed at women - the Yaoi and Otome genres - so it's not exactly a genre that's exclusively about men sexualizing women; It's more about sex and erotica in general, a subject which some puritans just can't handle, and will do anything to attack. And since the whole "god say it's bad" thing isn't really working anymore, "it's objectifying" is next in line. Because clearly no woman ever wanted to be considered sexy, be romanced, and have sex for her own pleasure.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Sometimes, but not based on the gameplay. There's nothing inherently hateful or condescending about a game based around wooing someone and pursuing a relationship with them. In concept, you can even argue that it's exactly the opposite: in a true dating sim, you generally have to pursue a woman (I don't know of any otome equivalents, unlike with romantic visual novels) by building yourself into someone she likes and considers worthwhile. As opposed to real life, when you're perfectly capable of simply lying to get someone into bed, dating sims are games and still control their own stories, and your character's motivation and the results of their actions are more often than not pure.

No, if a dating sim can be considered misogynistic, it's entirely based on how the women in it are actually portrayed. I've only played a couple of games I would call actual "dating sims" (True Love and Casual Romance Club), but neither of them fit an accusation of misogyny.

So visual novels aren't exactly "my bag", but there's got to be a market for ones aimed at women.

Sadly, I'm not sure that there is a market, a lot of the girls I know who read visual novels are very into yaoi and don't really care about a dating sim aimed at female protagonists.

I'd be interested to read an erotic, straight female protagonist (a good one though, not a pathetic/easily manipulated one) visual novel, mainly to see how I react to it.

I know there are otome games out there that aren't yaoi-based, though the only one I can name off the top of my head is Yo-Jin-Bo (which is non-ero). I'm looking for some, myself, out of curiosity.

I tried reading Fate/Stay Night, which has erotic scenes, but I couldn't finish it due to becoming horribly depressed by the fact that I'll never be as good as the girls in the sex/nudity scenes...but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Setting aside that the erotic scenes are maybe a half-hour combined in a 40-60 hour game...you couldn't be as bad as Rin. I thought half the point of her scene was to laugh at the awkwardness, and the other half to cringe.

 

[loa]

She said that it portrays women as a problem for men to overcome.

Ah, that's not misogynistic, that's realistic.
*shot*

 

[LadyRhian]

Sometimes, but not based on the gameplay. There's nothing inherently hateful or condescending about a game based around wooing someone and pursuing a relationship with them. In concept, you can even argue that it's exactly the opposite: in a true dating sim, you generally have to pursue a woman (I don't know of any otome equivalents, unlike with romantic visual novels) by building yourself into someone she likes and considers worthwhile. As opposed to real life, when you're perfectly capable of simply lying to get someone into bed, dating sims are games and still control their own stories, and your character's motivation and the results of their actions are more often than not pure.

No, if a dating sim can be considered misogynistic, it's entirely based on how the women in it are actually portrayed. I've only played a couple of games I would call actual "dating sims" (True Love and Casual Romance Club), but neither of them fit an accusation of misogyny.

So visual novels aren't exactly "my bag", but there's got to be a market for ones aimed at women.

Sadly, I'm not sure that there is a market, a lot of the girls I know who read visual novels are very into yaoi and don't really care about a dating sim aimed at female protagonists.

I'd be interested to read an erotic, straight female protagonist (a good one though, not a pathetic/easily manipulated one) visual novel, mainly to see how I react to it.

I know there are otome games out there that aren't yaoi-based, though the only one I can name off the top of my head is Yo-Jin-Bo (which is non-ero). I'm looking for some, myself, out of curiosity.

For you, Drow: http://www.otomegames.com/games.shtml

 

[NeutralDrow]

So visual novels aren't exactly "my bag", but there's got to be a market for ones aimed at women.

Sadly, I'm not sure that there is a market, a lot of the girls I know who read visual novels are very into yaoi and don't really care about a dating sim aimed at female protagonists.

I'd be interested to read an erotic, straight female protagonist (a good one though, not a pathetic/easily manipulated one) visual novel, mainly to see how I react to it.

I know there are otome games out there that aren't yaoi-based, though the only one I can name off the top of my head is Yo-Jin-Bo (which is non-ero). I'm looking for some, myself, out of curiosity.

For you, Drow: http://www.otomegames.com/games.shtml

Oh, awesome! Thanks!

Oh, good, and there's demos for some of them, too...

 

[zehydra]

Fun fact, you can objectify women without being misogynistic.

Objectification is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be, and is a basis for a lot of basic human interaction.