Poll: Are gamers today too self entitiled?

[AnarchistAbe]

Well, then we'll see how many people stick to their guns on this Dark Souls PC "boycott"

You seem to care a lot about what other people care about. It never really occurred to me to fuss over whether or not someone else was enthused or angry about a particular brand or product.

It's an interesting phenomenon, psychologically speaking.

I'm interested in the bottom line, and how it affects me. I've already watched PC fall to a second tier platform, and am just waiting for publishers to finally throw their hands up and write off the PC Gaming market. THAT is why I'm interested (speaking towards the Dark Souls boycott).

As far as the Mass Effect thing is concerned, I, again, am concerned with the games industry as a whole. If this sort of backlash becomes the norm, one of two things will happen. A) They will stop listening entirely, whether the complaint has merit or not. Or, B) we will get EXACTLY what sells. Nothing more, and nothing less. Less innovation, less risk-taking and new IP. More Call of Duty.

 

[Naeras]

The video is interesting... However, he does touch (albeit, very VERY briefly), over the same major concern that I have: Gamers request a game, publisher makes the game, the game doesn't sell...no more games.

Obviously, that's a tad extreme. But publishers hate nothing more than losing money. They obviously didn't have much faith in a PC Port to begin with, or they would have just made one. This just re-affirms their decision to NOT make a port. And don't be naive enough to think other publishers will look at what Namco did wrong here. Expect them to see the hit to Namco's bottom line, with the cause being a PC port.

Yeah, publishers tend to whine when their bottom line gets hurt because they listened to their customers when they asked for a port, they did a half-assed job to make a port that sucked, and then they yelled "BUT WE GOT YOU WHAT YOU ASKED FOR AND YET YOU DONT WANT TO GIVE US YOUR MONEY, FUCK THIS YOU ENTITLED SHITS". See the Gears of War PC-port and Cliff Blezinsky's reaction to that for an example, where exactly this happened.

The difference is that this time, people made it abundantly clear already that there will be a problem with this port, to the point where a lot of people flat-out won't be able to play it, 'cause GFWL is full of shit, nuggets and derp. If the port sells badly initially, a lot of the potential customers have already informed exactly what the dealbreaker was. Not buying a bad port because you don't want to spend money on a bad product isn't entitlement. Publishers expecting their customers to pay for a bad product just because, however, is most definitely entitlement on their part.

Your concerns are definitely well justified, but the customers are definitely not being entitled by asking nicely for a dumb business decision to be changed. Sadly, as has been pointed out, that's not going to happen, unless someone volunteers to write new netcode from scratch. And that's not gonna happen.

And as of full disclosure for my part here: I already have Dark Souls for the 360. I was interested in a PC version because of modding capabilities, but I'll probably wait for a Steam sale or something like that before I spend any money on it.

 

[Emiscary]

Wanting what you paid for doesn't make you entitled. 'Nuff said.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm interested in the bottom line, and how it affects me. I've already watched PC fall to a second tier platform, and am just waiting for publishers to finally throw their hands up and write off the PC Gaming market. THAT is why I'm interested (speaking towards the Dark Souls boycott).

As far as the Mass Effect thing is concerned, I, again, am concerned with the games industry as a whole. If this sort of backlash becomes the norm, one of two things will happen. A) They will stop listening entirely, whether the complaint has merit or not. Or, B) we will get EXACTLY what sells. Nothing more, and nothing less. Less innovation, less risk-taking and new IP. More Call of Duty.

ROFL, wut? The PC "fell" to a second tier platform, eh? When did this happen? Last time I looked I saw a ton of PC games available for me to play. I must've been dreaming! Or perhaps you're referencing the timeworn boom/bust cycle that happens every console generation, and you're engaging in wild hyperbole to make it sound a lot less mundane and predictable and low impact than it actually is.

A) As you've noted, this kind of "backlash" was already completely commonplace, and has been ever since consumers realized they can vote with their wallets.

B) You already get EXACTLY what sells from major developers and major publishers. What was the statistic someone posted in another thread? All but one game EA released this year was a sequel? Where have you been? No one is going to bankroll a 50-100 million dollar game for an unproven IP. If you want innovation, there are a shitload of indie games and kickstarter projects waiting for you.

Although to be fair, I don't think you're actually "concerned" at all. I think you're just getting a charge out of being outraged at outrage.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

For the most part, no. The concerns are legitimate. People see gamers acting like consumers of any other product, and ddcide that they're all self-entitled little twerps.

Name me one other product where the consumers are as vocal and obnoxious as gaming.

One other? Can't it be multiple?

Fine: Comic Books. Seriously.

Maybe I should rephrase. 1 other product that NERDS aren't the key demographic. My entire point is based around the fact that nerds are self-entitled pricks, who ***** too much as a "demographic".

P.S. As a nerd, I'm not using that term as derogatory. Just making it clear that I believe that the majority of our demographic is the problem.

 

[Vegosiux]

Wanting what you paid for doesn't make you entitled. 'Nuff said.

Actually, it does make you entitled by the very definition of the word.

Most people just use the word wrong.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

ROFL, wut? The PC "fell" to a second tier platform, eh? When did this happen? Last time I looked I saw a ton of PC games available for me to play. I must've been dreaming! Or perhaps you're referencing the timeworn boom/bust cycle that happens every console generation, and you're engaging in wild hyperbole to make it sound a lot less mundane and predictable and low impact than it actually is.

You can't be serious...The large majority of PC titles are ports. Consoles are first tier, and everything else is second and beyond. This can be evidenced by the fact that some games don't even GET a PC port. Major titles, that are ONLY released for consoles. I repeat, second tier platform.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You can't be serious...The large majority of PC titles are ports. Consoles are first tier, and everything else is second and beyond. This can be evidenced by the fact that some games don't even GET a PC port. Major titles, that are ONLY released for consoles. I repeat, second tier platform.

I'm completely serious. I've been a PC Gamer for almost 30 years, and there's a wider variety of quality titles now than there ever was. There's an occasional sloppy port, but most cross platform games shine on the PC, especially after a little modding, which allows you to customize them to your taste. There's also a ridiculous avalanche of "PC exclusives" in the form of the indie game market which you're conveniently overlooking.

I guess if I was a fan ONLY of AAA games in a few narrow genres, I could share in your "consoles get all the toys" boo-hooery, but I'm not, so I don't. You are flapping your arms in the air over a non-existent problem.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

You can't be serious...The large majority of PC titles are ports. Consoles are first tier, and everything else is second and beyond. This can be evidenced by the fact that some games don't even GET a PC port. Major titles, that are ONLY released for consoles. I repeat, second tier platform.

I'm completely serious. I've been a PC Gamer for almost 30 years, and there's a wider variety of quality titles now than there ever was. There's an occasional sloppy port, but most cross platform games shine on the PC, especially after a little modding, which allows you to customize them to your taste. There's also a ridiculous avalanche of "PC exclusives" in the form of the indie game market which you're conveniently overlooking.

I guess if I was a fan ONLY of AAA games in a few narrow genres, I could share in your "consoles get all the toys" boo-hooery, but I'm not, so I don't. You are flapping your arms in the air over a non-existent problem.

I see your point. But, publishers/devs will freely admit that consoles are their priority.

 

[OriginalLadders]

I voted other. It seems to me that gamers in general can get royally pissed off over complete non-issues, but are also capable of being thoroughly shafted on major issues and not care.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I see your point. But, publishers/devs will freely admit that consoles are their priority.

Wider audience, set hardware requirements. Of course it's the default platform. Doesn't make it the "best" platform, and it never killed the PC. The PC has ALWAYS been the most powerful/flexible platform. My gaming PC was better than my 360 when my 360 was new, and it runs circles around it now.

This is actually a really great time to be a PC Gamer. Digital distribution has provided access to games more quickly and cheaply than ever before, and it's created a veritable explosion of indie developers and niche genres that never could/would have existed before. In light of that, do I care if I need to wait a few weeks for a mod to give me proper UI support in Skyrim? A Skyrim, I might add, that already has better textures than the console version, and in a few months time will be completely overhauled and improved 1000% by an avalanche of mods?

I barely even touch my console any more, to be honest. I mostly hold on to it to play the occasional quirky exclusive, like Katamari Damacy.

 

[lord.jeff]

At least now people are complaining about things that are actually bad, instead of casual gamers and the free to play market.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

I see your point. But, publishers/devs will freely admit that consoles are their priority.

Wider audience, set hardware requirements. Of course it's the default platform. Doesn't make it the "best" platform, and it never killed the PC. The PC has ALWAYS been the most powerful/flexible platform. My gaming PC was better than my 360 when my 360 was new, and it runs circles around it now.

This is actually a really great time to be a PC Gamer. Digital distribution has provided access to games more quickly and cheaply than ever before, and it's created a veritable explosion of indie developers and niche genres that never could/would have existed before. In light of that, do I care if I need to wait a few weeks for a mod to give me proper UI support in Skyrim? A Skyrim, I might add, that already has better textures than the console version, and in a few months time will be completely overhauled and improved 1000% by an avalanche of mods?

I barely even touch my console any more, to be honest. I mostly hold on to it to play the occasional quirky exclusive, like Katamari Damacy.

I hardly ever touch my 360, and I can't remember the last time my PS3 was turned on, but I can't help but feel like publishers would rather write off the PC than to keep releasing games for it. All we hear from publishers anymore is "PC Piracy...Arrrg!". Just last week EPIC Games used PC Piracy as a leading cause of why we won't get a Bulletstorm 2.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

At least now people are complaining about things that are actually bad, instead of casual gamers and the free to play market.

Free to play gamers RUINED TF2 and MURDERED JFK!!!! They also lied to us about the existence of aliens, and caused the current financial crisis! Get your facts straight.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I hardly ever touch my 360, and I can't remember the last time my PS3 was turned on, but I can't help but feel like publishers would rather write off the PC than to keep releasing games for it. All we hear from publishers anymore is "PC Piracy...Arrrg!". Just last week EPIC Games used PC Piracy as a leading cause of why we won't get a Bulletstorm 2.

Well, the used games kerfuffle is just the piracy argument in a different hat. If the gaming industry wasn't bleating about a financial bogeyman they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. The death of the PC game market was hypothesized about ever since the first consoles wriggled their way out of the muck, and it never happened. You'll hear about it again when the 720 and PS4 come out, and once again it won't go anywhere, and in less than a year's time the average gaming PC will once again be more powerful than the consoles, which will remain stagnant for another 4-5 years.

 

[zf6hellion]

I have noticed just recently that a large number of gamers seem to complain alot about many things they feel they are entitled to. For example a better ending for Mass Effect 3 and just recently the removal/alternative to Games for Windows Live for the PC release of Dark Souls. I know that the ending for ME was pretty bad and there are many threads out there discussing that, but this is not about that.

Whenever anything that people don't like is announced or found there always seems to be a massive uproar about it with petitions and many angry posts flying over the internet. This is by no way a new thing but just recently its exploded in popularity.

TLDR- Are we as gamers too self entitled today or are we right in demanding things be changed just because we don't like it?

I think its alright to complain about some things such as witheld game content but I don't think its right to demand that a developer change their games story just because people don't like it.

Well I look at it this way.

Someone promises you something, you buy something based on that promise.

That promise turns out to be complete bullshit. You have every right to demand change and/or your money back because you were basically conned.

And yes, this does apply to BioWare and Mass Effect 3 "It won't just have an A, B, C ending".

 

[Sutter Cane]

Yes, but not because they are complaining. As consumers we have the right to complain about something we feel is not right.

The reason they're "too self-entitled" is their attitudes that surround those complains.

The attitude is that they are always right and there is absolutely no way they are wrong.
Too many dismiss any arguments that disagree with their complaint without even trying to see it from another point of view, and thus they make little to no effort to defend their position.

Not backing up your point makes it look like you don't have a point.

It doesn't matter how right you are, or how poor the counter-argument is. When you simply dismiss any counter-arguments, you make yourself look self-entitled. Just yelling, "F*** YOU!! You don't understand!" is not how you argue a case. Unfortunately it seems that's all many gamers can do, or are willing to do.

The attitude can be summed as follows:

"I'm right and anyone who disagrees is a (insert insult of choice here)!"

PC gamers are the worst about this, but that probably is simply because they're also the most vocal. It's simply the Law of Averages.

Nothing wrong with being vocal. Certainly console gamers could stand to be a little more vocal.
It's just when you take the flawed attitude of, "the customer is always right even when wrong," is when you cross the line from concerned consumer to self-entitled brat.

this post is absolutely correct

 

[worldruler8]

I hardly ever touch my 360, and I can't remember the last time my PS3 was turned on, but I can't help but feel like publishers would rather write off the PC than to keep releasing games for it. All we hear from publishers anymore is "PC Piracy...Arrrg!". Just last week EPIC Games used PC Piracy as a leading cause of why we won't get a Bulletstorm 2.

Well, the used games kerfuffle is just the piracy argument in a different hat. If the gaming industry wasn't bleating about a financial bogeyman they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. The death of the PC game market was hypothesized about ever since the first consoles wriggled their way out of the muck, and it never happened. You'll hear about it again when the 720 and PS4 come out, and once again it won't go anywhere, and in less than a year's time the average gaming PC will once again be more powerful than the consoles, which will remain stagnant for another 4-5 years.

I know I'm not part of the conversation, but I always viewed the consoles as a product that was "easier" to deal with. In which I mean, with a computer, you have all your personal things on it, and you need to have knowledge of computers in order to make the most of it (and most people don't. My mother still doesn't know what a "tab" is on internet browsers, let alone that Internet Explorer isn't the only internet browser). It's sort of a trade-off, and when I was younger, the Xbox seemed to be the simpler choice. The PC's market always seemed (when the 360 came out) that you got what you paid for, and if you wanted something with more flexibility and more computing power, well, you better pay up. Now I'm on my way to getting a job, and I already can tell that despite the extra strings, the PC market is something I'd like to join, especially since I'll hopefully be getting a job soon. But once again, consumers will gravitate to what they prefer. If consumers want consoles, they want easier, albeit more constricted, gameplay platforms. If they want PC games, they want more flexibility, and games that reach the epitome of the technology they have. If they have something twice as powerful as a 360, they want a game that has twice the computing power. It's just expected.

 

[Sutter Cane]

or to put it in a slightly different way:

disliking a game = fine

complaining about a game = fine

petitioning a game company to make a change = fine

acting like you should have authorial control over a work simply because you're a fan = entitled.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I know I'm not part of the conversation, but I always viewed the consoles as a product that was "easier" to deal with. In which I mean, with a computer, you have all your personal things on it, and you need to have knowledge of computers in order to make the most of it (and most people don't. My mother still doesn't know what a "tab" is on internet browsers, let alone that Internet Explorer isn't the only internet browser). It's sort of a trade-off, and when I was younger, the Xbox seemed to be the simpler choice. The PC's market always seemed (when the 360 came out) that you got what you paid for, and if you wanted something with more flexibility and more computing power, well, you better pay up. Now I'm on my way to getting a job, and I already can tell that despite the extra strings, the PC market is something I'd like to join, especially since I'll hopefully be getting a job soon. But once again, consumers will gravitate to what they prefer. If consumers want consoles, they want easier, albeit more constricted, gameplay platforms. If they want PC games, they want more flexibility, and games that reach the epitome of the technology they have. If they have something twice as powerful as a 360, they want a game that has twice the computing power. It's just expected.

Yep. You elucidate nicely one of the perfectly legitimate reasons why the console market is bigger than the PC market. Bigger just doesn't mean better, necessarily, and it certainly doesn't mean the PC market is doomed to extinction. It's just a smaller market aimed a slightly different demographic.

Besides which, a true gaming enthusiast goes multi-platform anyway! =D

acting like you should have authorial control over a work simply because you're a fan = entitled.

Ya know, this has been bugging me for some time now. No one is asserting authorial control. If they were, they'd be insisting that they be allowed to write the ending themselves. They are attempting to assert authorial influence. Which is perfectly commonplace.