Poll: are the catholics outdated?

[flamingjimmy]

Yes Catholicism is outdated, but only as much as all other religions are.

 

[FalloutJack]

Nah, I don't think they're out of touch. The Pope ALSO declared that all extraterrestrial beings were considered god's children as much as human beings were. That's pretty forward-thinking, I say.

 

[CJ1145]

I don't know... Do all abrahamic religions exist only as means of legitimizing oppression and consumption of planetary resources to increase the wealth and power of various elite/royal classes the world over?

Do they exist almost entirely to:
1. Legititmize primarily male dominator hierarchies and systematic oppression
2. Promote the idea of anthropocentrism, the belief that humans are superior to all other lifeforms, and that human will always supercedes the will of any other organism, or even that other organisms have no will of their own.
3. To make the masses believe that their lives on Earth are a test or judgement and that the only consequences that matter are ones concerning their afterlives, so that they don't question the domination that keeps them as ad hoc slaves.
4. To promote imperial expansion in order to allow the wealthy elites to retain and increase their wealth, in the name of converting heathens and/or civilizing savages.

Oh God, another of these guys. Well, it's not like I don't have time to resolve all of these, so let's get to work.

1. Legititmize primarily male dominator hierarchies and systematic oppression

Oh hell man, work on your English. PLEASE. I'm not even trying to insult you, I am genuinely asking for you to give something resembling an effort here. You look more like a troll than a disgruntled person talking like this. But to actually respond many denominations of the church actually accept female preachers. So I don't see where your "male dominator hierarchies" thing comes from. I mean, priests are all male yeah, but all nuns are female. Where's the justice in THAT, huh? What if I wanted to be a nun, hm?

2. Promote the idea of anthropocentrism, the belief that humans are superior to all other lifeforms, and that human will always supercedes the will of any other organism, or even that other organisms have no will of their own.

Close, but no cigar. Christianity as I have seen it teaches that, while man is indeed the most important of all living creatures, we are also the most burdened, as we are tasked to protect and cultivate the earth, not abuse it like you seem to think.

3. To make the masses believe that their lives on Earth are a test or judgement and that the only consequences that matter are ones concerning their afterlives, so that they don't question the domination that keeps them as ad hoc slaves.

Judgment comes after life. And life is not a test, it's just that: life. Sometimes we face suffering, oppression, and other hardships; those could be tests if you spin it enough, but really it's splitting hairs. I can guarantee you that while a Christian may look forward to the afterlife, it's not their sole motivation. We'd all be lazy, apathetic slobs if that were true.

4. To promote imperial expansion in order to allow the wealthy elites to retain and increase their wealth, in the name of converting heathens and/or civilizing savages.

...I have to ask. It's killing me. Are you from the 18th century? Were you frozen in a block of ice for 300 years and just recently thawed, so you could preach your own outdated message to the world? Yes, that's right, outdated. This is the kind of problems that we were dealing with back in the colonial ages, man. That stuff is done with. Seriously, your own complaints (when not entirely wrong or insane) are actually more outdated than what you're preaching against.

 

[Mcface]

I have watched the catholic religion closely, and ever since pope benedicit took over the papacy the church has fallen into middle age idea's again.I can't help but feel disgust at the blatant homophobia and anti-family planning which is slightly out of date in the 21st century.

I think it's time the world took a stand and made these 'men of god' realise they have no place of power in todays society (it does'nt help that the catholic church is possibly the most corrupt in the world).How many more deaths and horror's will be carried out in the name of 'god' by the major churches of the world?

So I still think catholics should be able to exist, but the pope should be taken down and left forever, as most catholics I know don't like him either.And possibly following that, the church of islam would follow as allthough most muslims are not bad people the values the religion teaches are out of date in a modern world.

so what do you fellow escapists think?

p.s this is not a hate tread so please respect others views and opinions thanx

The comment about Islam is wrong. I would easily put them at the top of the list for outdated.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I have watched the catholic religion closely, and ever since pope benedicit took over the papacy the church has fallen into middle age idea's again.I can't help but feel disgust at the blatant homophobia and anti-family planning which is slightly out of date in the 21st century.

I think it's time the world took a stand and made these 'men of god' realise they have no place of power in todays society (it does'nt help that the catholic church is possibly the most corrupt in the world).How many more deaths and horror's will be carried out in the name of 'god' by the major churches of the world?

So I still think catholics should be able to exist, but the pope should be taken down and left forever, as most catholics I know don't like him either.And possibly following that, the church of islam would follow as allthough most muslims are not bad people the values the religion teaches are out of date in a modertn world.

so what do you fellow escapists think?

p.s this is not a hate tread so please respect others views and opinions thanx

"the pope should be taken down and left forever" by what mechanism would you uproot a position ingrained in a culture for two millennia?

how many recent deaths has the church carried out?

middle ages? really? thats why the church is burning people alive, having them tortured, and demanding we go to war with the muslims.

Two out of three ain't bad. Hopefully W. Bush's Crusade will be the real 'last' crusade.

 

[Blackjack 222]

Pope-mobile... Takes loads of faith don't it.

 

[Trildor]

Yes, because every Catholic agrees with and blindly follows the Pope. We live in constant fear of the Spanish Inquisition, which is always unexpected, should we commit the heresy that is questioning Him.

For the record, I'm Catholic and don't agree with the Pope on everything he says.

 

[Mycroftian]

Um, I've been a Catholic all my life, and I've been surrounded by Catholics. I went to Church every Sunday and attend Catholic school. And let me tell you, even when the last Pope died, no one I knew cared that much. The Pope just isn't that big a deal anymore. No one bases their decisions solely off the Pope's words anymore, not any sensible Catholics anyway.

I went to religion class through my entire school experience and I never had an image of God or even a sex for God shoved onto me. Back in the first grade we were invited to create our own images of God. We were always supposed to have our own individual interpretation of our faith and spirituality.

People say religion is silly (not all people, but I see a few of you up there) but that seems to be the safe path now. I'm not a particularly devout Catholic. As I said, I've been going to Church for what seems like forever and I just don't see the point in going anymore. Do I have to do hand motions and speak in union with others to be closer to God? Doesn't the Catholic Church teach that all humans are loved by God and are equally close to Him? But here's something I just found out: The Catholic Church recognizes that people experience these feelings and allow and encourage them to go out and figure out their faith. It's not at all a totalitarian religion. I mean, in a morality class no one ever got shot down for supporting abortion or the death penalty. I was in that class for a semester and all I learned was "Don't kill people" and that "All people, regardless of race, religion, or background, are equal because God created them all in His image. That all people have dignity and are to be respected."

I don't know if any of this coincides with your beliefs, but I don't believe this just as a Catholic. I believe it as a person.

-edit: Ahem... accidental use of this screen name. Sorry, bro.

 

[katsumoto03]

I have watched the catholic religion closely, and ever since pope benedicit took over the papacy the church has fallen into middle age idea's again.I can't help but feel disgust at the blatant homophobia and anti-family planning which is slightly out of date in the 21st century.

I think it's time the world took a stand and made these 'men of god' realise they have no place of power in todays society (it does'nt help that the catholic church is possibly the most corrupt in the world).How many more deaths and horror's will be carried out in the name of 'god' by the major churches of the world?

So I still think catholics should be able to exist, but the pope should be taken down and left forever, as most catholics I know don't like him either.And possibly following that, the church of islam would follow as allthough most muslims are not bad people the values the religion teaches are out of date in a modern world.

so what do you fellow escapists think?

p.s this is not a hate tread so please respect others views and opinions thanx

And let me guess, they were really behind 9/11, right?

 

[Nurb]

Catholics have been outdated since the Renaissance. The entire denomination is built on old myths and rules ment to control people's lives directly.

They created things like purgatory to make fearful people give the church more money so thier family can "Get prayed up to heaven" by the priests.

Get this; for hundreds of years, priests were allowed to marry, and not only that, multiple wives during those centuries were common because the bible does not explicitly limit a man to one wife outside of spiritual leadership, and was defined by the catholics as "one man, and one wife" and priests had to be celebate. This caused riots among priests and thier wives.

The only reason catholic priests are celebate is because a monk wrote in his journal about his sex addiction, and how he couldn't stop himself from humping women and prostitutes despite wanting to stop. So he suggested leadership abstain from sex, and the pope at the time agreed.

They are dangerous in ways because of thier views on contraception, which leads to disease and unwanted pregnancy, and this teaching is destroying lives in africa, because they are growing catholic in a lot of areas and are told to not use condoms.

I've spent too much time in a religious school and graduated close to agnostic because of extreme hypocrisy

 

[rutger5000]

Catholisme is not outdated, for it differs from person to person. Some have outdated ideas, some have not.
The Vatican however is outdated, it has no place in the modern western world anymore. Anyone who disagrees should either check the news more often or get a brain check.
Blaming the Vatican for wars and poverty isn't fair though. Like the Unworthy Gentleman said: "Religion is used as a mask for the greed of men." The greed of men is the cause of wars and poverty, not religion. Without religion people would have found other excuses to start wars.

The Vatican is not really outdated. They are about as up to date with the sciences as you can think. They even have a team of scientists that live in Vatican City and are paid to figure out everything from quantum physics to the origins of the universe. The Vatican is just as, if not more open to find out how the world works as the average atheist.

See, I think the assumption that most of this thread is going under is that everyone who is religious are the dickheads we see on TV or we have run into in life, or that the official views of the Church match these dickheads. Not so. The official view of the Catholic Church is to be very open to the sciences, though I doubt any "devout" Catholic follows that view.

But I think what this threads needs to determine is the difference between just having faith and being an ignorant zealot. Are we really going to blame the whole Catholic Church because of the zealots, who probably make up a minority of the Catholic population? That would be like other people condemning the whole video game industry because of the antics of the thirteen year old psychos on Halo multiplayer.

You know what that does not surprise me at all. Seriously I'm not the least surprised that the Vatican tries to keep up with modern science. People are going to doubt things due to new knowledge, and the Catholic church wants to answer those question. Personally I think science and religion don't mix, they never did and they never should. But I'm not going to judge that.
The Vatican certainly knows how todays world works, what I meant with outdated is their morals.
The morals of the Vatican are heavily outdated, and should be refreshed. Now remember I say the Vatican not Catholics the Vatican. There is a big difference. Their position towards anti-conception, homosexuality and their own holiness have no place in todays modern world.

 

[Thaius]

Interesting that any stance against homosexuality, no matter how well-reasoned, even if it takes absolutely no stance against homosexuals themselves, is considered homophobia. Also interesting that standing against irresponsible sexual activity is "anti-family-planning." I'm no fan of the Catholic church, but aren't you trying a little too hard to make them look bad?

 

[Iron_Maiden]

I am a Catholic, so I have good reason to be annoyed right now.

 

[_Cake_]

It's a religion where the leader told people countries rampant with AIDS not to use condoms. If any club had this many child rapes no one would be a part of it. Not only that but they also cover it so as to protect the child rapist.

 

[Jonabob87]

Interesting that any stance against homosexuality, no matter how well-reasoned, even if it takes absolutely no stance against homosexuals themselves, is considered homophobia. Also interesting that standing against irresponsible sexual activity is "anti-family-planning." I'm no fan of the Catholic church, but aren't you trying a little too hard to make them look bad?

This.

 

[ninjajoeman]

so do you mean Catholics or Christians?

 

[LarenzoAOG]

thats why people have zoos.

They used to have zoos with black people in them.

Therefore white people are, or at least were, superior to black people?

No, I never said anything to even hint at that, you did however, I said "people" reffering to humans in general, not "white People" or "black people," you're looking for racism where there isn't any.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

I don't know... Do all abrahamic religions exist only as means of legitimizing oppression and consumption of planetary resources to increase the wealth and power of various elite/royal classes the world over?

Do they exist almost entirely to:
1. Legititmize primarily male dominator hierarchies and systematic oppression
2. Promote the idea of anthropocentrism, the belief that humans are superior to all other lifeforms, and that human will always supercedes the will of any other organism, or even that other organisms have no will of their own.
3. To make the masses believe that their lives on Earth are a test or judgement and that the only consequences that matter are ones concerning their afterlives, so that they don't question the domination that keeps them as ad hoc slaves.
4. To promote imperial expansion in order to allow the wealthy elites to retain and increase their wealth, in the name of converting heathens and/or civilizing savages.

Oh my, no offense but you're just a little bit of crazy away from conspiracy theorist, also Humans are superior to all other life forms that we know of, thats why people have zoos.

He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's pointing out very obvious points.

1. Women are not allowed to be in the clergy in Catholicism. Numerous Bible passages say that the wife should be subservient to the husband. By using the threat of an afterlife, based on their actions in this life, people are manipulated through fear into following the diktats of a century old book.

2. The Bible basically gives humanity free reign to fuck about with any animal/non-human simply because it isn't human. Animal rights? Fuck 'em. The Good Book says they don't have any!

3. As mentioned in the first point, name one scientific reason, other than fear, to believe in any form of an afterlife. We don't KNOW what happens when we die, and the fact we're blessed with imagination means we can create the idea that there is divine judgement waiting for us. Karl Marx once described religion as 'The opium of the masses' and he was spot on. 'Obey your King! He is chosen by God!' 'Obey the Pope, he is God's chosen!'. That was how feudalism worked: Lords were chosen by the Monarch (chosen by God, remember), so in essence the Lords were Gods servants.

4. The Pope gave permission to explorers in the Americas to enslave and pillage the civilisations there, because it would bring them closer to God. Its common knowledge that giving people a common enemy unites them. The First Crusade was just that. Europe was in chaos, just coming out of the Dark Ages. There were warlords and rebellions all over the place. The Pope at the time knew he needed to regain some semblance of order, so he promised any and all people who went on the Crusade eternal reward in heaven.

So yeah, Hunde Des Krieg was pretty much stating facts.

I'm not going to argue with you because it would waste both out time, but I will say that Hunde Des Krieg didn't have anything to say to me, so it's odd that you do.

 

[Baradiel]

I don't know... Do all abrahamic religions exist only as means of legitimizing oppression and consumption of planetary resources to increase the wealth and power of various elite/royal classes the world over?

Do they exist almost entirely to:
1. Legititmize primarily male dominator hierarchies and systematic oppression
2. Promote the idea of anthropocentrism, the belief that humans are superior to all other lifeforms, and that human will always supercedes the will of any other organism, or even that other organisms have no will of their own.
3. To make the masses believe that their lives on Earth are a test or judgement and that the only consequences that matter are ones concerning their afterlives, so that they don't question the domination that keeps them as ad hoc slaves.
4. To promote imperial expansion in order to allow the wealthy elites to retain and increase their wealth, in the name of converting heathens and/or civilizing savages.

Oh my, no offense but you're just a little bit of crazy away from conspiracy theorist, also Humans are superior to all other life forms that we know of, thats why people have zoos.

He's not a conspiracy theorist. He's pointing out very obvious points.

1. Women are not allowed to be in the clergy in Catholicism. Numerous Bible passages say that the wife should be subservient to the husband. By using the threat of an afterlife, based on their actions in this life, people are manipulated through fear into following the diktats of a century old book.

2. The Bible basically gives humanity free reign to fuck about with any animal/non-human simply because it isn't human. Animal rights? Fuck 'em. The Good Book says they don't have any!

3. As mentioned in the first point, name one scientific reason, other than fear, to believe in any form of an afterlife. We don't KNOW what happens when we die, and the fact we're blessed with imagination means we can create the idea that there is divine judgement waiting for us. Karl Marx once described religion as 'The opium of the masses' and he was spot on. 'Obey your King! He is chosen by God!' 'Obey the Pope, he is God's chosen!'. That was how feudalism worked: Lords were chosen by the Monarch (chosen by God, remember), so in essence the Lords were Gods servants.

4. The Pope gave permission to explorers in the Americas to enslave and pillage the civilisations there, because it would bring them closer to God. Its common knowledge that giving people a common enemy unites them. The First Crusade was just that. Europe was in chaos, just coming out of the Dark Ages. There were warlords and rebellions all over the place. The Pope at the time knew he needed to regain some semblance of order, so he promised any and all people who went on the Crusade eternal reward in heaven.

So yeah, Hunde Des Krieg was pretty much stating facts.

I'm not going to argue with you because it would waste both out time, but I will say that Hunde Des Krieg didn't have anything to say to me, so it's odd that you do.

Nothing odd about it. This is a discussion. He made a point, you disagreed, I happened to agree with him. I don't know why Hunde Des Krieg didnt 'have anything to say to you'. Maybe he didn't consider it worth reply? Who knows?

 

[Czargent Sane]

I have watched the catholic religion closely, and ever since pope benedicit took over the papacy the church has fallen into middle age idea's again.I can't help but feel disgust at the blatant homophobia and anti-family planning which is slightly out of date in the 21st century.

I think it's time the world took a stand and made these 'men of god' realise they have no place of power in todays society (it does'nt help that the catholic church is possibly the most corrupt in the world).How many more deaths and horror's will be carried out in the name of 'god' by the major churches of the world?

So I still think catholics should be able to exist, but the pope should be taken down and left forever, as most catholics I know don't like him either.And possibly following that, the church of islam would follow as allthough most muslims are not bad people the values the religion teaches are out of date in a modertn world.

so what do you fellow escapists think?

p.s this is not a hate tread so please respect others views and opinions thanx

"the pope should be taken down and left forever" by what mechanism would you uproot a position ingrained in a culture for two millennia?

how many recent deaths has the church carried out?

middle ages? really? thats why the church is burning people alive, having them tortured, and demanding we go to war with the muslims.

Two out of three ain't bad. Hopefully W. Bush's Crusade will be the real 'last' crusade.

thats bull. and the least you could do is support the bull

when in recent history (because that was what we were talking about) has the governing body of the church ordered someone tortured?
and could you please find the recent quote where the church leadership said to attack the muslims?