Poll: Are We Entitled?

[Ordinaryundone]

I can't fathom why people rush to the defence of a studio-destroyer like EA.

Because, news flash, not everyone thinks that they are the devil incarnate.

then they are misinformed. Look at all these companies they bought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Electronic_Arts

Thats about 38 studios bought in 20 years. How much are still running? Eight.

Go check for yourself, click a studio, investigate them. notice what happens "STUDIO THAT MAKES GREAT GAMES GETS BOUGHT BY EA. EA RUSH THE GAMES, it doesnt sell well, EA closes down studio. Only absoring a "few key players"

it's a disgusting tactic. By out the opposition, pilfer their talented workers and repeat. Honestly, I dont know how long Bioware will last.

Believe it or not, THIS IS WHAT COMPANIES DO. It's how buisness works. If the companies didn't want to be bought, then they wouldn't have been bought. They were selling themselves, and EA was buying. That's the entire concept of Stock Trading.

You make it sound like EA is going around deliberately buying out these companies just to shut them down. What makes you think they'd last without EA's funding? Do you sit on the board for all these poor, pitiful companies? Heck, even Bioware must have had something to gain from EA purchase, or they would not have sold themselves. Do I feel bad for the people who get fired if their company goes under? Sure, but that's life. Whether a parent company breaks them up, or they go under do to their own failure, what does it matter? If you make bad games, you lose. Its a risk/reward system; the very nature of capitalism.

And before you start in with the "Fewer companies means worse games!" remember, EA (and others) tend to keep around the employees that show the most potential. So the people who made all the games you love? They are still making games. It's the employees, not the company name.

 

[Vegosiux]

Believe it or not, THIS IS WHAT COMPANIES DO. It's how buisness works. If the companies didn't want to be bought, then they wouldn't have been bought. They were selling themselves, and EA was buying. That's the entire concept of Stock Trading.

Yes, and some of us simply want that cancer to not affect what the games we want to play end up being. But it's easy enough for me, I simpy pass up on such stuff *shrug*

Still sad and disappointed when it happens tho.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Believe it or not, THIS IS WHAT COMPANIES DO. It's how buisness works. If the companies didn't want to be bought, then they wouldn't have been bought. They were selling themselves, and EA was buying. That's the entire concept of Stock Trading.

Yes, and some of us simply want that cancer to not affect what the games we want to play end up being. But it's easy enough for me, I simpy pass up on such stuff *shrug*

Still sad and disappointed when it happens tho.

It happens in every industry. Idealism never, ever overcomes profit and the end of the day. Which is the way it SHOULD be, honestly. Artists are a notoriously fickle and unproductive group of people. Publishers aren't just there to fund them, they are there to keep them focused, and working towards a product that people will actually buy.

 

[Vegosiux]

It happens in every industry. Idealism never, ever overcomes profit and the end of the day. Which is the way it SHOULD be, honestly. Artists are a notoriously fickle and unproductive group of people. Publishers aren't just there to fund them, they are there to keep them focused, and working towards a product that people will actually buy.

Well it'd be nice if they worked towards a product I'd actually buy, yes. I'm not saying idealism is the way to go, but shoehorning current FOTM elements into everything ("Multiplayer makes money! Add multiplayer!") isn't either.

As far as ME3 is concerned, I hoped for a quality SP RPG experience, not an action/shooter with "optional MP element developed by a different team" when said team could have been working on more SP experience for the resources allocated to them. And that's just one of my gripes.

In the end I'm getting my money's worth still - no game for no money. Sucks, but that's the way I'm going to make it unless some of my gripes are resolved with future updates.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Well it'd be nice if they worked towards a product I'd actually buy, yes. I'm not saying idealism is the way to go, but shoehorning current FOTM elements into everything ("Multiplayer makes money! Add multiplayer!") isn't either.

As far as ME3 is concerned, I hoped for a quality SP RPG experience, not an action/shooter with "optional MP element developed by a different team" when said team could have been working on more SP experience for the resources allocated to them. And that's just one of my gripes.

In the end I'm getting my money's worth still - no game for no money. Sucks, but that's the way I'm going to make it unless some of my gripes are resolved with future updates.

Well, good for you I guess? Though honestly I think you have the wrong mindset regard Mass Effect. It's always been an action/adventure game with some RPG elements. Even in ME1. That was never likely to change.

 

[cookyy2k]

That's exactly what they are doing. They tried to force another company "two tales" or something into selling but thankfully it flopped. Too bad the employees mean shit when the publisher has unrealistic working standards and stupid design ideas. Anyways its not how it is, EA games keep this shit up, I hope an Anti-trust lawyer is watching. close down their headquarters. You'll see me dancing infront of their hq.

Couldn't agree more.

Westwood Studios was a video game developer, based in Las Vegas, Nevada. It was founded by Brett Sperry and Louis Castle in 1985 as Westwood Associates and was renamed Westwood Studios when it merged with Virgin Interactive in 1992. The company was bought from Virgin Interactive by Electronic Arts (EA) in 1998, and closed by EA in 2003.

In August 1998, Westwood was acquired by Electronic Arts for $122.5 million in cash. At the time, Westwood had 5% to 6% of the PC game market. In response to EA's buyout, many long-time Westwood employees quit and left Westwood Studios. Because of this and EA's newly imposed demands, games being developed by Westwood Studios at the time were rushed and left unfinished upon their release, namely Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun. All the subsequent games developed by Westwood were also heavily subjected to increased control by Electronic Arts, with some of them being cancelled.

Westwood had a very successful franchise (c&c) and a reasonable market share for pc. EA instead of competing bought it, interfered with it's IPs then closed them keeping said IPs to milk. By c&c generals they'd got rid of almost the entire pre-EA westwood staff. This move was just after my last ever new EA game purchase. It is this act that means none of my money can ever go to them.

 

[Erttheking]

I can't fathom why people rush to the defence of a studio-destroyer like EA.

Because, news flash, not everyone thinks that they are the devil incarnate.

then they are misinformed. Look at all these companies they bought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Electronic_Arts

Thats about 38 studios bought in 20 years. How much are still running? Eight.

Go check for yourself, click a studio, investigate them. notice what happens "STUDIO THAT MAKES GREAT GAMES GETS BOUGHT BY EA. EA RUSH THE GAMES, it doesnt sell well, EA closes down studio. Only absoring a "few key players"

it's a disgusting tactic. By out the opposition, pilfer their talented workers and repeat. Honestly, I dont know how long Bioware will last.

I CAN HOLD DOWN THE SHIFT KEY WHILE I TYPE TOO! ME2 came out while Bioware was under EA, and I loved that game, I've got no beef with EA...then again I've got no beef with Activision, so it shows what kind of a brainless tool I am, seriously whats wrong with me? I honestly think that it isn't a big deal that COD is the best selling shooter on the market.

 

[Smithburg]

You deserve better if you vote with your wallet. Its still your choice whether you buy the games or not.

As far as I am concerned the moment you buy ME3 (for example) and the DLC despite bitching about EAs business practices on these forums all the time, you need to shut the fuck up. Dont like it? Buy The Witcher 2 instead.

I wish i could run the Witcher 2 ._.

I think the Mass Effect DLC is bad business, I wont be buying that, but I will be buying ME3, as much as I may want to boycott it, Ive invested time and money into a series meant to be a trilogy, Im going to finish it. But I do not like the unethical business practice of making a 3 part thing, then pushing the cost up for the final installment.

Sickening.

You don't have to finish the trilogy, it is not a requirement and if you really wanted to boycott, you would. It's not like Mass Effect is a necessity.

Alright, If I dont buy number 3, that would mean Ive wasted my money on 1 and 2, and I want to see the end of this series, Yes I dont have to buy it, but I want to. I want to finish the story that was started, Im not going to be one of those people wholl say theyll boycott it, then get it anyway. And frankly in a series this popular a boycott will not work, theyll stil make a ton of money on it.

 

[Gamer_152]

The gaming community as a whole is entitled, and no, not because they criticise bad pricing, bad DRM, and bad DLC (although I don't agree with most peoples anti-ME3 DLC and anti-on-disc DLC views). People are entitled because they're given a fantastic prospering industry full of very high quality games that developers put their heart and soul into making and for a certain number of them, they focus on everything that's wrong, and rarely if ever at all stop to acknowledge the fantastic deal they're actually getting, or the hard work of the men and women who propel the medium forward.

I've seen so many people who think that Valve genuinely owes them a Half-Life 2: Episode 3 it's untrue, and while there are plenty of legitimate criticisms to be made of the industry, I'm getting rather sick of people who think that by default they deserve everything the games industry is producing to be handed to them on a silver platter, without even offering so much as a regular thanks in return.

 

[n00beffect]

-snip-

This is the point where I politely request that you do not make assumptions about how I would or would not act in a given situation. I believe myself to be better qualified to make that judgement than someone whose entire position depends on whether or not they're right about what they think about what I'd do.

'Don't tell me what I'd do, I am different. Only I defy human nature, because I'm special!'. Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. Whatever, this argument is utterly pointless. Of course, you might be right. I mean, there must be a reason why right now you're talking from a consumer perspective, and not from a publisher's perspective. I.e. there has to be a reason why you're not in their shoes, and probably never will be... *naiive rub on the chin*.

Anyway, I am done with this thread.

 

[GigaHz]

I voted yes, but I think this is something you need to approach on a case by case basis.

There are some games out there that come with more than enough content (or just the right amount) and some have the nerve to swallow it and demand more.

Then there are others that go to market, half-finished, with content missing that they will simply 'add later' through paid DLC. In other words, allowing the customers to do all the Quality Control work themselves while continuing to PAY developers more than the game is worth to get the full experience.

The first is entitlement, the second is exploiting the customer.

The first option I don't agree with. Especially considering that there are only so many games released right now that are worth investing your time in to begin with. You should kiss the ground you walk on if developers throw you a thoroughly enjoyable game that may not have been as long as you desired.

The second option I don't think falls under entitlement. It's more about what defines a product suitable for purchase. It wouldn't be so terrible if I didn't have plenty of evidence from the past. You know, back when you could buy a game all-inclusive and patches were used to fix small problems and not THE ENTIRE GAME. Also when maps and levels were made by the community, for free, instead of strictly through the developers at a ridiculous price.

When you look at the numbers, we got more for less back then. It brings up the old discussion of DLC versus Expansion Packs. I've always believed that Expansion Packs were the greater value when you consider all that was included with it. It's hard to bring up an example that would cover every scenario, but think about it like this. Expansion Packs would be priced anywhere from $10-$25. The more expensive ones would contain ENTIRE campaign additions, while the cheaper ones would contain maps, items, quests or whatever.

Compare that to today's standards where $15 will buy you Three Call of Duty maps (or an elite subscription, which is just stupid), and $8-$15 will buy you a single additional campaign mission. We're being played for chumps. This is all because we seem to believe that DLC is convenient and we could buy what we want, as opposed to investing a slightly larger amount of money for a more substantial experience. Even then, if you wanted to match what an expansion pack would give you using micro transactions, you would have to spend anywhere from 2 to 3 times the amount to match the content provided. That isn't right.

I seemed to have turned this into an anti-dlc rant. I just don't have enough evidence to provide that we are more or less entitled now vs. then.

 

[Steampunk Viking]

I cant believe you. I just told you this corporation is systematically buying great game companies and shutting them down, and your response is: Whoopedeedo they made Me2! Sorry, you're going have to do better than that.

When you were ignorant it was okay to say "well I don't hate EA" but now that you know what they are doing, how can you stand there as a gamer and just shrug your shoulders?

Despicable. I hope when they shut down Bioware, I dont hear a fucking peep from you.

I hate EA.

I don't hate Bioware.

Simply put, I do think EA are the devil, but Bioware have brilliant writing and excellent gameplay and they've never let me down on those fronts, and yeah, I buy EA games, doesn't mean I have to like them.

Oh yeah, and you might throw the old "BUT YOUR SUPPORTING THEM BY GIVING THEM YOUR MONEYZ!" (all in caps because I like to be accurate), but if I like and want a game, I'll buy it, because if a more "morally oriented" company try to make it, they get sued, and I have far too much respect for a good game to complain too much about the person behind it, peddling it.

Mass Effect 3 I have full faith in being a great game, with or without From Ashes.

 

[FalloutJack]

There are things in the gaming industry that never should have happened, things we can all agree make companies all out as total bastards. Everybody has SOMETHING that's annoyed them in gaming that's related to the makers and the distributors and whatnot. If you have ANY sort of gripe with your choice company somewhere along the line, you believe in some level of entitlement. You are a dissatisfied customer over a particular point in quality. That truth cannot be changed.

 

[anthony87]

I hope when they shut down Bioware, I dont hear a fucking peep from you.

If Bioware ever gets shut down I seriously doubt his first thought will be:

"Shit!....I'd better go tell Zeel!"

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Hey guys! Zeel is back!

Let the games commence!

I'll be taking bets all night.

 

[Steampunk Viking]

"faith"? You started the post so well then you had to end it with that loyalty wank. Faith in any corporation (even Bioware) is unhealthy.
Especially since Bioware is no more. It's going to be an explosive day in forum history when the Biowarefans start to realize how little of bioware is left. EA gobbles up companies and spits them out when they are finished.

I'm not saying you have to boycott everything they make. That'd be damn difficult since they own a good deal of the market. What just grinds my gears are people like him who instead of just acknowledging that these are sleazy tactics they have to do the shrug their shoulders routine. I imagine some sort of moral conflict is happening inside, he needs to sort it out on his own. Instead of wasting my time.

When Bioware start making shit games, I'll start lowering my opinion of them, and yes, I honestly believe that any of the "sleaze" is from EA, not Bioware. But the Mass Effect team need to justify their workload and income to EA or they're going to get fired, you think this happening for the third game is coincidence? No way. They're biding their time, hence the development on it straight after the game was complete.

Now I'm not saying it's completely fair, but this stuff takes money as well as time and it needs to be made up. But they're now proving that their jobs have meaning to the people that bought them, they're essentially trying to keep their jobs and getting slated for it. Do I wish the first day DLC was free (regardless of the fact it doesn't affect me)? Yes. Would I rebel thinking that it might cost people their jobs? No.

Being laid off work SUCKS.

Before EA got involved, Bioware did no wrong for me and made some of the best games I have ever played. Now they're owned by EA, they still deliver excellent games, albeit with some more concerning marketing tactics. Coincidence?

So yes. I have faith in BIOWARE, but not EA. Unfortunately EA do make some great games, and your lack of purchase will make piss all difference to them, so I'm just going to enjoy my last installment of Mass Effect 3 - and I still maintain that the Prothean will prove to be less vital than everyone makes him out to be (we won't know 100% certain, not even with leaked proof, how vital he will be), and this might just end up blowing over.

And remember kiddies, pirating games is illegal and ultimately costs peoples jobs, you're better boycotting a game than pirating it because otherwise it'll be you killing the industry, not the companies you accuse, and it will all be a massive irony!

 

[Erttheking]

I can't fathom why people rush to the defence of a studio-destroyer like EA.

Because, news flash, not everyone thinks that they are the devil incarnate.

then they are misinformed. Look at all these companies they bought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Electronic_Arts

Thats about 38 studios bought in 20 years. How much are still running? Eight.

Go check for yourself, click a studio, investigate them. notice what happens "STUDIO THAT MAKES GREAT GAMES GETS BOUGHT BY EA. EA RUSH THE GAMES, it doesnt sell well, EA closes down studio. Only absoring a "few key players"

it's a disgusting tactic. By out the opposition, pilfer their talented workers and repeat. Honestly, I dont know how long Bioware will last.

I CAN HOLD DOWN THE SHIFT KEY WHILE I TYPE TOO! ME2 came out while Bioware was under EA, and I loved that game, I've got no beef with EA...then again I've got no beef with Activision, so it shows what kind of a brainless tool I am, seriously whats wrong with me? I honestly think that it isn't a big deal that COD is the best selling shooter on the market.

I cant believe you. I just told you this corporation is systematically buying great game companies and shutting them down, and your response is: Whoopedeedo they made Me2! Sorry, you're going have to do better than that.

When you were ignorant it was okay to say "well I don't hate EA" but now that you know what they are doing, how can you stand there as a gamer and just shrug your shoulders?

Despicable. I hope when they shut down Bioware, I dont hear a fucking peep from you.

ZEEL BUDDY YOU'RE BACK! I MISSED YOU! I think they're looking for you over at the "Bioware defends" trailer. Also I'm not a gamer, I don't really like being given a title that implies that gaming is all I'm about, a label I much rather prefer is writer. I like playing games, that's about it, EA makes games that I like, including ME2 which I find to be superior to ME1 in just about every way, so yeah, I have no issues with the way things are doing

Oh yeah, you don't have severe anger issues at all. Seriously you have all the zeal or rather Zeel (lol) of a fanboy, but you direct it into hating things instead of loving them...which really doesn't make you any better...at all.

 

[ThriKreen]

Well, I guess so long as they keep the official evidence out of the public eye, they're fine. I, on the other hand, find it hard to believe that Shale wasn't ripped out of DAO and I don't have any official evidence.

Like this [http://www.destructoid.com/why-the-dragon-age-origins-dlc-character-was-cut-145329.phtml]?

 

[Erttheking]

I can't fathom why people rush to the defence of a studio-destroyer like EA.

Because, news flash, not everyone thinks that they are the devil incarnate.

then they are misinformed. Look at all these companies they bought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Electronic_Arts

Thats about 38 studios bought in 20 years. How much are still running? Eight.

Go check for yourself, click a studio, investigate them. notice what happens "STUDIO THAT MAKES GREAT GAMES GETS BOUGHT BY EA. EA RUSH THE GAMES, it doesnt sell well, EA closes down studio. Only absoring a "few key players"

it's a disgusting tactic. By out the opposition, pilfer their talented workers and repeat. Honestly, I dont know how long Bioware will last.

I CAN HOLD DOWN THE SHIFT KEY WHILE I TYPE TOO! ME2 came out while Bioware was under EA, and I loved that game, I've got no beef with EA...then again I've got no beef with Activision, so it shows what kind of a brainless tool I am, seriously whats wrong with me? I honestly think that it isn't a big deal that COD is the best selling shooter on the market.

I cant believe you. I just told you this corporation is systematically buying great game companies and shutting them down, and your response is: Whoopedeedo they made Me2! Sorry, you're going have to do better than that.

When you were ignorant it was okay to say "well I don't hate EA" but now that you know what they are doing, how can you stand there as a gamer and just shrug your shoulders?

Despicable. I hope when they shut down Bioware, I dont hear a fucking peep from you.

ZEEL BUDDY YOU'RE BACK! I MISSED YOU! I think they're looking for you over at the "Bioware defends" trailer. Also I'm not a gamer, I don't really like being given a title that implies that gaming is all I'm about, a label I much rather prefer is writer. I like playing games, that's about it, EA makes games that I like, including ME2 which I find to be superior to ME1 in just about every way, so yeah, I have no issues with the way things are doing

Oh yeah, you don't have severe anger issues at all. Seriously you have all the zeal or rather Zeel (lol) of a fanboy, but you direct it into hating things instead of loving them...which really doesn't make you any better...at all.

Stop with the equivalency garbage, theres no way my hate would go so far it'd override logic, like your love for Bioware is clearly doing. Why are you dancing around the issue. Is it wrong what they are doing or not? I didn't ask you how much you LOVE me2. I asked you about your opinion on what they are doing.

I honestly don't know why you went off on some mini-me2/writer tirade, all of that is irrelevant.

And I answered you, so long as Bioware continues to make quality products, I have no issue with how they make them, and so far I consider ME2 to be good and ME3 looks like it will be even better. Also I went off on that "mini-writer tirade" because you asked me "how can you as a gamer justify this" like it was a duty or something to police every action that gaming company made, and I was just trying to express how I think it's stupid to put so much time and energy into stuff like that.

 

[Erttheking]

I can't fathom why people rush to the defence of a studio-destroyer like EA.

Because, news flash, not everyone thinks that they are the devil incarnate.

then they are misinformed. Look at all these companies they bought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Electronic_Arts

Thats about 38 studios bought in 20 years. How much are still running? Eight.

Go check for yourself, click a studio, investigate them. notice what happens "STUDIO THAT MAKES GREAT GAMES GETS BOUGHT BY EA. EA RUSH THE GAMES, it doesnt sell well, EA closes down studio. Only absoring a "few key players"

it's a disgusting tactic. By out the opposition, pilfer their talented workers and repeat. Honestly, I dont know how long Bioware will last.

I CAN HOLD DOWN THE SHIFT KEY WHILE I TYPE TOO! ME2 came out while Bioware was under EA, and I loved that game, I've got no beef with EA...then again I've got no beef with Activision, so it shows what kind of a brainless tool I am, seriously whats wrong with me? I honestly think that it isn't a big deal that COD is the best selling shooter on the market.

I cant believe you. I just told you this corporation is systematically buying great game companies and shutting them down, and your response is: Whoopedeedo they made Me2! Sorry, you're going have to do better than that.

When you were ignorant it was okay to say "well I don't hate EA" but now that you know what they are doing, how can you stand there as a gamer and just shrug your shoulders?

Despicable. I hope when they shut down Bioware, I dont hear a fucking peep from you.

ZEEL BUDDY YOU'RE BACK! I MISSED YOU! I think they're looking for you over at the "Bioware defends" trailer. Also I'm not a gamer, I don't really like being given a title that implies that gaming is all I'm about, a label I much rather prefer is writer. I like playing games, that's about it, EA makes games that I like, including ME2 which I find to be superior to ME1 in just about every way, so yeah, I have no issues with the way things are doing

Oh yeah, you don't have severe anger issues at all. Seriously you have all the zeal or rather Zeel (lol) of a fanboy, but you direct it into hating things instead of loving them...which really doesn't make you any better...at all.

Stop with the equivalency garbage, theres no way my hate would go so far it'd override logic, like your love for Bioware is clearly doing. Why are you dancing around the issue. Is it wrong what they are doing or not? I didn't ask you how much you LOVE me2. I asked you about your opinion on what they are doing.

I honestly don't know why you went off on some mini-me2/writer tirade, all of that is irrelevant.

And I answered you, so long as Bioware continues to make quality products, I have no issue with how they make them, and so far I consider ME2 to be good and ME3 looks like it will be even better.

See! this right here. This is what makes you a fanboy. "Huk huk, I don't care about all the gaming companies destroyed by EA games, aslong as they continue to make my Mass Effect series great!"

If you're so big on writing, why doesn't the fact that EA games is crushing artistic vision bother you? Oh right Mass Effect 2.

I really hope your Me3 is worth all those destroyed companies.

I just love how I'm being calm and you're freaking out, apparently shifting into a mocking tone randomly makes your point stronger. Destroying artistic vision...uh I've been seeing quite a lot of artistic vision in ME3 so far so...yeah, I'm cool with it.