Poll: "Badass and Hardcore"

[Elvis Starburst]

I've been seeing this being thrown around several times, and instead of sitting here wondering just what on Earth that's supposed to mean, I'm opening up a discussion about what it means to you.
What is the definition to you guys, what games do you think fits this label, and what other little bits of discussion can you bring about with these terms?

And yes, the reason for this thread is obvious. But I think this has potential to be an interesting discussion to bounce off ideas of what makes a game "badass" and "hardcore," even if you don't like the terms yourself. That might be a good chance to lay it out there. Well? Let's have at it!

Badass: I don't tie this term to specific games, genres or anything like that. I tend to put this term to specific moments. Like losing several team members in a shooter and single-handedly maneuvering, dodging huge amounts of enemy fire and wiping the other team yourself. THAT is what I would call a badass moment.

Hardcore: This is a nothing term to me. The term "hardcore gamer" doesn't really mean much personally. If someone played a single mobile game all the time, I wouldn't call them a hardcore gamer though, I'd call them a bit more of the casual type (In a non-degrading manner instead of calling them a "filthy casual"). There is a specific point where that changes though. I don't know if there is a "hardcore" gamer title after that. I'd say I game a lot, much more than a lot of people I know, but I wouldn't call myself "hardcore" for it. I play Monster Hunter well into the 1000 hour mark across the series. I dunno if I'm "hardcore" for it

 

[Saelune]

If someone referred to a game as badass, Id think they were referring to its tone or style. A game like DOOM or Shadow Warrior.

Hardcore would suggest great complexity or difficulty.

 

[tippy2k2]

To me, a game that makes me feel like a badass is a game that let's me do something that I think was super awesome and empowering. Whether that is slaying the giant dragon, scoring the game winning goal in NHL during overtime, or every single second playing the greatest game that has ever been created (Wolfenstein New Order). Badass is the pure high you get when you best someone/something in a cool manner.

A game that is hardcore is a game that forces you to master it before you can really play it. Whether it's because it is super punishing like Dark Souls, just super complicated like Madden (feel free to sneer at that but Madden has become FAR more complicated than it was back on the Genesis kiddos), or just perfect in every single way like Wolfenstein New Order. Hardcore is a game that might take fifteen minutes to learn but dozens, if not hundreds, of hours to truly master.

 

[Lightspeaker]

If someone referred to a game as badass, Id think they were referring to its tone or style. A game like DOOM or Shadow Warrior.

Hardcore would suggest great complexity or difficulty.

I think this is actually a pretty good summary. Badass is visceral. A feeling. Whereas hardcore is an almost technical term to do with how seriously you have to take said game to become good and be able to play it at its fullest.

Watching a ship ram into another ship full speed and making it explode in Battlefleet Gothic is badass. Watching hundreds, thousands, of troops clashing in Total War games is badass. Dual wielding assault rifles and gunning down techno-nazis in Wolfenstein New Order is badass. Hacking and slashing your way through thousands of enemies in Dynasty Warriors is badass.

The incredible complexity and depth of Hearts of Iron is hardcore. The punishing, but surprisingly fair, difficulty of Dark Souls games is hardcore. The cut-throat community and complexity of EVE Online is hardcore.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Badass = The real word.

Hardcore = Mommy's watching (when used in this sense)

"Hardcore and Badass" = Redundant

Of course, Hardcore can have more meaning beyond a way to say "Badass" without offending Mommy. But I'm pretty sure that when John Romero refers to his recent FPS as "Hardcore", he's either being redundant (can't remember if he said "Badass"), or he's concerned that his Mom is watching and doesn't want to get thrown out of the house to find a "real job".

 

[Zhukov]

"Badass": Cool in a way that suggests power, dominance, defiance or violence.

"Hardcore": Generally I'd say it means committed or dedicated. However within gaming it generally means "miserable person who gets angry over trivial shit."

 

[Bilious Green_v1legacy]

Dunno about "badass" but I take "hardcore" to mean someone who is dedicated enough to gaming that they are willing to sacrifice other aspects of their life in order to game, or to schedule the rest of their life around gaming. It doesn't necessarily mean they especially good at gaming, it just means they are very committed to it.

 

[The Enquirer]

Badass typically seems to refer to player skill or subjective opinions regarding a game, and hardcore is more so the dedication a player has towards a small number of games, or the difficulty of a game.

 

[Saltyk]

I'd say both are pretty interchangeable, but context can be a factor.

Badass is more about an individual. People are badasses. Generally referring to characters with certain demeanor. Blade from the movie, I would quantify as a badass. He is capable, takes no shit from anyone, doesn't play games, and people are intimidated by him, even those he protects. The same could be said of Batman or Kratos.

Hardcore is more about actions. Crushing an opponent with extreme prejudice is an example of this. And obviously a badass can do things that are hardcore, but one doesn't have to be.

But as I said, both are pretty interchangeable. It's likely I could say either to describe the same thing. Really, why is this a topic of discussion? There are plenty of words in the English language that are fairly interchangeable. There are about a dozen ways to say someone is happy. Joyful, pleasant, ecstatic, cheerful, carefree, and merry to name a few.

 

[Mister K]

If someone referred to a game as badass, Id think they were referring to its tone or style. A game like DOOM or Shadow Warrior.

Hardcore would suggest great complexity or difficulty.

Well, what else I can add after such a nice summary? I can only agree.

 

[RedDeadFred]

While marketing might overuse them both I'd say they still have their place. Specifically here:

If someone referred to a game as badass, Id think they were referring to its tone or style. A game like DOOM or Shadow Warrior.

Hardcore would suggest great complexity or difficulty.

 

[Nazulu]

I like the terms, even though they seem a bit childish, it helps sum up ones feelings towards certain things.

I think when someone describes something as badass, it's usually because it has a meaner and/or slightly darkish tone and style. The approach is seen to be aggressive and inspiring as the same, being similar to the word cool.

Hardcore I'm not so sure about. I've seen it used to describe a bit more. I guess when someone is said to be 'hardcore', it either means they take dangerous risks and are talented, or maybe they're crazy but entertaining. And when it comes to describing games I guess it means it's action packed or very difficult.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

They're highly subjective terms.

Like, Hardcore often means either "Only someone who is totally dedicated to it will get it" or "DUDE THIS IS FREAKIN DANK DARK STUFF BRO! / You have to be really into it to like it".

I lean more towards the "You're hardcore if you're REALLY dedicated to it" interpretation. I call myself a hardcore gamer because gaming is what I LOVE. If I'm not working, hanging out with friends, or posting on gaming message boards, I'm most likely gaming. And when I get into a game, I get immersed as hell. I get into my character's head, I LIVE the action, I explore strange sides of the psyche, or I pick apart game mechanics and try to get good at them. That, to me, makes me hardcore, even if I'm not exceptional at any genre (outside of maybe RPGs. I can't even say I'm exceptional at Turn based strategy, as I can't handle XCOM games on the much higher difficulties).

As for "badass", that's another very flex term. If can mean "dude, this character is fearless and strong" it can mean "this game/etc is full of awesome moments with little compromise" and overall "This person is a CHAMPION. Not necessarily a champion of Good, but still, they're superhuman in a emotional/attitude way that most people can't reach". Of course, some people attach the "MANLY" attribute to it, which while often the case isn't a requirement (hell, I just last night found out about a fan-setting in the New World of Darkness that is basically a Magical Girl/Princess setting, and HOLY CRAP not only is the setting badass, but so are the characters you can become, and so are some of the factions)

So, to me, personally, "badass" on a person-based level is about willing yourself to be more than you are. It's about taking your strength and using it to make an impact whether good or bad, and avoiding compromising your personal vision. Basically, a badass will see a losing fight, knowing that they're likely to die and will still fight because they know that it's either the right thing to do, or because they're the only one who can, or because they just plain don't fear dying and are just that confident in themselves that they can make it. For a setting, a "badass" setting is one that dares you to become a badass, because the only choices are "Bow your head and lose" or "Take a stand, stare death in the face, and maybe just maybe you can become more than you are", and where the setting leaves the tools to becoming a badass right there in front of you. All you have to do is pick them up, and have the guts to never ever relent, not in the face of anything.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I've been seeing this being thrown around several times.

Are you sure you aren't thinking about just one particular user here? To my knowledge, there's only one guy around who consistently talks about wanting games to be manly, badass and hardcore.

But besides that, I'll throw in my 2 cents on what these terms mean to me.

Badass: to me this term means gratuitously over-the-top and violent. Something that just revels in its audacity and mindless bloodshedding. And it's game mechanics echo this by making you feel like a powerful juggernaut that can wade through enemies like an out-of-control lawnmower. So, in this respect, games like Doom or God of War are 'badass', while something like Dark Souls is decidedly not.

Hardcore: I used to think of hardcore as being games that appeal to 'traditional' players who grew up with gaming, as opposed to newer players who tend to gravitate towards more mobile and 'casual' fare, you know, the whole silly hardcore gamer vs casual gamer nonsense. But now I think of hardcore games as being more niche games with (relatively) small, but very dedicated fanbases. So, games like ARMA, Europa Universalis and other such grand strategy games, but also something like Senran Kagura or Dynasty Warriors.

 

[Ishigami]

Do people really describe games as badass?
Usually you would refer to a person or character as badass.

A badass is someone who is displays supreme confidences while disregarding authority. He does what he does and does not give a fuck what everyone else thinks about it.

In that sense the new Doom could be considered badass because it goes against current market trends by focusing on movement based retro shooting and also revels in this in its marketing campaign.
But really you would label Doomguy as badass because he kills demons and goes against Hell no matter what Hayden has to say about it.

Hardcore I would associate with dedication.
Someone who is hardcore devotes a lot of time, money or whatever to do something.
There is a link to skill and difficulty since people who dedicate themselves to a certain act tend to end up being above average in it.
So games are not really hardcore but aim at a hardcore audience. Games that usually require the player to dedicate themselves to the game in order to be either good at it or beat it.

Edit: So a hardcore gamer is someone who plays video games a lot, buys a lot of them or invest a lot of time to inform himself about them. Or all of this.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Bad ass would be one with a cottage cheese-like appearance, lots of cellulose, etc. while hard core is the part of fruit you really don't want to eat, unless you're both badass and hardcore.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Are you sure you aren't thinking about just one particular user here? To my knowledge, there's only one guy around who consistently talks about wanting games to be manly, badass and hardcore.

Oh yeah, I'm absolutely not trying to hide that, as made evident when I said "And yes, the reason for this thread is obvious" in my OP afterwards. I simply found this to be a good opportunity for a discussion and opinion thread on the topic. An actual discussion where we respect opinions and don't tell everyone they're wrong

 

[K12]

Dwarf fortress is "hardcore" but not "badass".

Just Cause 2 is "badass" but not "hardcore".

The Soulsborne games are both.

Something is "badass" if it's impressive to the casual observer and something which is hardcore is impressive to someone who is in the know about the game.

That's generally how I interpret those terms but they are quite vague and allow for lots of different readings.

 

[happyninja42]

Badass= Something that I really enjoyed. Either for it's emotional impact, pure crazy fun, or great presentation. If it's making me laugh with joy at what I'm doing, either from the sheer insanity of it, or the cool/awesomeness of it. It's badass.

Hardcore= Something I don't really use in my speech at all really, unless prompted to in a discussion like this. But in general "something that's really tough".

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

They're both words i associate with ickle baby kids that find something cool and/or empowering. Not really used by anyone that prefers an articulate description or solid foods. People that feel they got something to prove and/or are easily impressed.