Poll: Battlestar ending - what do you think?

[Elim Garak]

It was my understanding that they only abandoned the most advanced tech. The parts that had made them decadent in the first place - computers for example. Starships run by the technology that made them lazy and complacent in the first place.

That's not how I read it - when they were walking off they barely had any backpacks.

I'm sure they went back to an early medieval style type of life. There was nothing wrong with living that way when we did it - except we allowed monarchies to run civilizations into the ground.

Even assuming they could achieve that level of civilization, there are many things wrong with that. A short lifespan, lack of medicine, high infant mortality, lack of intellectual challenges - I think all of those are wrong.

And my original beef with your thread was that when I looked at it, all you had were negative choices based on your bias of the show.

Based on my opinion, not bias. And I corrected that - should I add more? There is only one more slot left in the poll form.

 

[RyantheLion]

I liked the first half but I didn't like that whole thing with Kara or the Admiral other than that I thought it was pretty good.

 

[Elim Garak]

For what? A hammer, a wrench, some pliers? Scissors? A saw?

For what? Your question does not make sense in this context. They had none of those things. I would be surprised if they had axes.

I'm sure they did what almost everyone does who can't haul or doesn't have larger tools. They brought smaller tools to make bigger tools.

Didn't see any. Just watched it. From the way they carried their stuff, the bags were basically empty - with some clothes, maybe. Besides, you just admitted that tools would have been useful - the more tools the better. A ship full of tools? And raw materials?

Which brings me back to my point. The stuff on the ships won't help them build a hammer.

You are getting totally confused now. BSG alone had enough equipment, tools, and raw materials to build a fighter. You think they couldn't make a thousand hammers? And axes? And water pipes? And used shuttles to deliver heavy logs into a village? Gather more raw materials?

You are saying basically that the entire fleet would have been completely useless to them?

The entire process you just mentioned would in no way have anything to do with the tech they would have ditched on the ships.

Sigh. I am starting to remember why I left ASVS. Yes, it had everything to do with it. Using a the most basic parts from any ship you could build everything that I've just described. Used power tools to make a hammer and a forge. Used synthetic cloth to make the air pump for the forge. Used shuttles to collect wood for the forge. Used shuttle sensors to find iron deposits. Used power tools to build a wheelbarrow.

From that point on that level of technology becomes self-sustaining.

I don't think they had ironworks on the ships, or even the directions on how to make them. These were just ships that happened to be in space at the time, not floating libraries.

They had people and equipment to build new fighters, just on Galactica. There were dozens of ships in the fleet - many of them industrial ships. That could be used to repair stuff - which requires tools.

I think houses would be the first things the people would make. Wait, second. I think food would be first.

Like they're going to sit outside and starve and say "Man, if only we had a house"

Pretty much. They would start out looking for food - that would take 8 hours a day at first, without any additional supplies. After a day of hard work they are supposed to spend another 8 on building houses? And then 2-3 more on teaching their kids to do stuff?

You're assuming they have books for everyone on every subject. As well as the means to make new books when those get bad.

Not every subject - any subject would be nice. Yup, make books - with a printing press made with the tools that I just mentioned. Either tools made from equipment on the ships, or 2nd-3rd generation tools. Or just study from computers on the ships.

Welcome to the point of the show.

The point of the show is that you need a technological base in order to build a civilization?

 

[McClaud]

It was my understanding that they only abandoned the most advanced tech. The parts that had made them decadent in the first place - computers for example. Starships run by the technology that made them lazy and complacent in the first place.

That's not how I read it - when they were walking off they barely had any backpacks.

I'm sure they went back to an early medieval style type of life. There was nothing wrong with living that way when we did it - except we allowed monarchies to run civilizations into the ground.

Even assuming they could achieve that level of civilization, there are many things wrong with that. A short lifespan, lack of medicine, high infant mortality, lack of intellectual challenges - I think all of those are wrong.

And my original beef with your thread was that when I looked at it, all you had were negative choices based on your bias of the show.

Based on my opinion, not bias. And I corrected that - should I add more? There is only one more slot left in the poll form.

Again, what we saw and what was said was two different things. And they did survive. On their own terms instead of settling into the cycle they knew was going to happen again if they kept their computers and their ships. Because the majority couldn't trust the rest of the population to let go of advanced tech.

They tried living with the ships on New Caprica. No one did anything useful - they merely lived on the ships parked on the ground, barely scratching up a living because half of them were glued to the ships that were there. They relied on the fleet remaining above to save their asses everytime something bad happened. Clearly, these people cannot break their cycle if it isn't stripped away from them.

I'm not sure why you'd assume that they'd have a short lifespan or forget everything they've learned. Clearly they didn't, or they wouldn't still be around. These people clearly evolved past the 4 foot sickly Europeans who didn't have ANY knowledge of how to govern themselves or any inkling of a better life (or a knowledge of medicine or advanced sciences).

I checked the official canon of the new BSG through Margret Weis' publications. Over 70% of the survivors are technicians, artisans and doctors. I think this is where the show falls down really - the writers actually did write more background material and gave more information about the fleet and the people in it (and the history prior to the exodus) because they made an RPG out of their notes that actually makes the entire thing make more sense.

I actually suggest people find a copy of the RPG and read the background part. It actually explains stuff that I never picked up in the show (such as there had been two civil wars prior to the Cylon wars, and back on Kobol, they were clearly at the level they are during the Exodus).

 

[SullyE]

tl;dr version: The writers can do whatever they want, and personal beliefs that science and religion are mutually exclusive are flawed since nobody's disproved the validity of religion, and many previously religious ideas ended up being accepted as facts and understood through scientific terms. The jury's still out on it, and any other opinion is that of a myopic, close-minded individual.

For those without ADD:

As a writer, I'm a little saddened by the ridiculous notion that's been repeated about religion not working in sci fi. It must be understood that, within the context of a fiction, the writer has full control. If someone writes science fiction, but includes religion, themes, and/or subtext, their story cannot be suddenly ignored as not being science fiction. That stems from an idea that religion and science are mutually exclusive, and many noted scientists, such as Newton, Copernicus, Kepler, and so forth, would doubtless beg to differ. One of the lead researchers on the human genome project actually became religious after what he learned about the human genome.

This idea that the inclusion of religious beliefs into genuine science is one thing, but what's worse is the idea that one cannot blend science and religion in a fictional work. That, to me, is utterly ridiculous. I once wrote a story, and a certain individual who read it didn't like something that happened, and told me that I had to change my story to fit how he thought my story's world should work.

It doesn't work like that. You don't tell the writer how to write. He tells you what happened in his fictional universe. Few things make me angry, but the gall to assume that someone who is not as intimate with the fictional universe somehow possesses more knowledge than the creator fills me with a passionate rage.

Dana Scully's Catholocism and Frank Black's struggles with evil did not magically null the validity of the X-Files and Millennium as Science Fiction. While it's more likely than not that we are the only form of life out there (Monkeys eventually reproducing Hamlet have a better chance than our evolution), lots of Sci Fi is about alien life and fantastical technologies that are scientifically impossible, but no one would call them "fantasy." If Asgardian gods suddenly showed up in a book about space ships and time travel and aliens and improbabilities, I wouldn't call that fantasy.

...I'd call it the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Science Fiction is fictional and is not an exact representation of everything we know to be true; in many cases, elements of science fiction are downright false. Religious elements within science fiction are perfectly acceptable and do not alter the genre in any way. ...unless elves and dwarves start appearing; then everything gets a little suspect.

As for society devolving and the like, the Mormon beliefs of the show's creator make sense here. After all, according to Mormon doctrine, a group of people migrated from the heart of civilization to the Western Hemisphere, some of whom became savages (namely those who didn't create a written history of their culture) and some of whom became the Mayans, one of the most advanced cultures on Earth for its time, if I recall. Besides that, facilities, books/information, tools, and the like are all required to train people in certain paths, and those resources would, understandably, be lost over time without the proper facilities to maintain them.

(I posted after reading all the way through the first page and only a few comments on the second, so if I've unnecessarily repeated anyone's thoughts, I apologize)

 

[Antidamacus]

While sober? In a life and death situation, with clear choices? Premeditated? A person in authority? (Ignore Bush, he is a special case - in every meaning of the word).

Yes, all the time. People do things that are wrong all the time because they're scared, or in love, or unsure of themselves or oversure of themselves.

People do things that get them killed all the time.

Maybe plausible to you - not to me. The whole "lets abandon technology and live in the woods" thing comes to mind.

I don't think they abandoned ALL tech. I'm sure they went back to a time that predates us. I would say they would probably live like the Amish do now. I don't think that would be a stretch.

Lets not use the tech that can save us because it is icky and alien.

If the robots that have killed off 99%+ of your population offer you tech to help save yourself, I'd be skeptical too.

It'd be like the guy who just shot you offering to drive you to the hospital.

Lets follow dreams and prophecies to who knows where, instead of living on nice Kobol.

This one has some tread. However you just told me it was silly of people to skip long term goals for the immediate reward of short term goals. This was clearly a positive sign on a road map that was leading them somewhere. Why stop?

Lets risk the ship and thousands of people to save one little girl.

A ship that wasn't going anywhere to rescue the only human/cylon hybrid (that apparently cured someone's cancer?)

The thing that the perfect machines can't reproduce and seriously want? I think that's totally worth getting.

The whole colonial council - pretty much every single thing I've seen them do was moronic and predicated on emotions and little intellect.

Which pretty much fits government well, doesn't it?

1. Vocab and various ideas. Use it or lose it - I can feel my brain cells ossifying because I don't use such terms during my normal day.
2. It is fun and it doesn't conflict with my long term goals.

1. You and I have a different philosophy then. If I'm not using words on a regular basis, I don't really need to know them, do I?
2. But you could be working on your long term goals right now.

Once again, it is the magnitude of stupidity.

It appears they did alright. The decisions you deride as stupid could have been the things to save them from a horrible death that ends humanity. I can't say one way or the other since everything hinged on the ideas of a team of writers.

They don't and never will need a doctor?

I don't think they left the doctors there.

Shelter?

I think that's pretty easy to make.

Raw materials?

It's an entire brand new planet. It's one giant raw material.

Equipment for farming and hunting?

Guns and shovels? I'm pretty sure they brought what they had. I get the feeling the fleet didn't have a giant array of gardening tools.

Textbooks?

From where? The school ship? They're spaceships, not libraries.

Equipment for building things that they can rebuild? Read the other post on self-sustaining technological bases, and how to build them.

I love to know what you think they should be bringing with them that you think would exist on these ships.

I am not holding them back. I am saying they are morons for going.

Because after fighting a war against the greatest technological advancement they made they decided to leave a lot of the high tech crap behind?

 

[McClaud]

Equipment for farming and hunting?

Guns and shovels? I'm pretty sure they brought what they had. I get the feeling the fleet didn't have a giant array of gardening tools.

Equipment for building things that they can rebuild? Read the other post on self-sustaining technological bases, and how to build them.

I love to know what you think they should be bringing with them that you think would exist on these ships.

That's two really good points. When they were on New Caprica, I do believe that it's Tigh that says, "I wish we'd thought to pack some seeds and a planter, but we didn't," when someone remarks that maybe they should be farming right now.

It's true - out of all the ships that actually DO something (5 in all), one refines starship fuel, one carries starship fuel, one actually acts as the communications hub, one is the government ship, and the Galactica defends the fleet. All the rest of the ships are civilian freighters, starliners and transports. None of those would actually carry seeds, books, food or other stuff that is useful. The Galactica is the only ship that recycles used water in bulk, and it doesn't do it at 100% all the time.

In fact, now that I think about it, they never show anyone wielding a regular HAMMER once. Most of the time, I see weird tools primarly to fix starships and Vipers. And there's no fabrication ships in the fleet, either. That's why during the one episode where they confront the black market they talk about how cloth and paper is just as limited as alcohol and food.

When these people fled for their lives, it's apparent they had no time to grab anything useful. Gaius' radio - the shortwave - is the only one of it's kind in the entire fleet and it was brought onboard by someone who looted a radio while running to the lift ships.

 

[SullyE]

Yes, all the time. People do things that are wrong all the time because they're scared, or in love, or unsure of themselves or oversure of themselves.

It's because they simply don't know all the facts and possible outcomes. But nine times out of ten, it's because they can't control every single facet of their lives. I'm going to have a terrible sixteen hour work day tomorrow because I've gotten very little sleep and I'm ill, but because I'm ill, I can't sleep.

I can feel my brain cells ossifying because I don't use such terms during my normal day.

Was this sentence meant to be ironic? The word 'ossifying' and vaguely stilted English have convinced me that it is.

A short lifespan, lack of medicine, high infant mortality, lack of intellectual challenges - I think all of those are wrong.

I'm nitpicking here, but short lifespans and high infant mortality rates have a lot to do with lack of healthy conditions, so a lack of medicine would be the cause, and the idea that we have intellectual challenges now that people didn't in medieval times (or any time, for that matter), is ridiculous.

 

[Antidamacus]

For what? Your question does not make sense in this context. They had none of those things. I would be surprised if they had axes.

You don't think they had pliers or hammers? The entire flight deck was nothing but hand tools for fixing things.

Didn't see any. Just watched it. From the way they carried their stuff, the bags were basically empty - with some clothes, maybe. Besides, you just admitted that tools would have been useful - the more tools the better. A ship full of tools? And raw materials?

A ship of hand tools and highly specialized tools for fixing highly specialized ships, that are now useless.

I seriously doubt they had enough torches or fuel to cut apart those ships.

You are getting totally confused now. BSG alone had enough equipment, tools, and raw materials to build a fighter.

Years ago, with no new supplies coming in, and they already had a bunch of the spare parts lying around.

You think they couldn't make a thousand hammers? And axes?

You're right, I totally don't get why they didn't spend time and energy mass producing the easiest of all hand tools to lug around.

And water pipes?

For what? The giant pumping station they're going to make?

But what will they use for the satellite TV dish?

And used shuttles to deliver heavy logs into a village? Gather more raw materials?

They clearly kept raptors, but they're going to run out of fuel eventually. Or do you expect them to build a giant refinery? Maybe an offshore oil platform?

You are saying basically that the entire fleet would have been completely useless to them?

I'm saying what they thought they would need for survival they probably brought with them.

There were 38 thousand people, there is no real way to know what exactly they brought with them. But I am almost positive they left all the high end technical stuff and took and the low end survival gear.

Sigh. I am starting to remember why I left ASVS. Yes, it had everything to do with it. Using a the most basic parts from any ship you could build everything that I've just described. Used power tools to make a hammer and a forge. Used synthetic cloth to make the air pump for the forge. Used shuttles to collect wood for the forge. Used shuttle sensors to find iron deposits. Used power tools to build a wheelbarrow.

I'm fairly sure they brought all those things.

From that point on that level of technology becomes self-sustaining.

I think you're deluding yourself into thinking that the people could recreate things like power tools or synthetic cloth with what they had on them.

They had people and equipment to build new fighters, just on Galactica. There were dozens of ships in the fleet - many of them industrial ships. That could be used to repair stuff - which requires tools.

They had tools and prefab parts to fix fighters. They didn't make the parts. They didn't make ships from raw materials, those things already existed.

Pretty much. They would start out looking for food - that would take 8 hours a day at first, without any additional supplies. After a day of hard work they are supposed to spend another 8 on building houses? And then 2-3 more on teaching their kids to do stuff?

You're totally right. I'm sure in the first few weeks they didn't teach their kids anything and then everyone started eating their shoes.

Once they built the houses and planted the gardens, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they did.

Not every subject - any subject would be nice. Yup, make books - with a printing press made with the tools that I just mentioned. Either tools made from equipment on the ships, or 2nd-3rd generation tools. Or just study from computers on the ships.

Why didn't they just create the tools to make bigger tools to create the mechanisms to create massive amounts of paper, ink, glue and the giant hardware required to make something as massively complex as a textbook for multiple subjects?

Before or after they built all the houses, hospitals, schools and tv stations?

The point of the show is that you need a technological base in order to build a civilization?

That people who got lazy off their high tech would get killed by it.

 

[McClaud]

I'd also like to reiterate that these people lived lives where everything was done for them, and even the poor lived fairly cushy lives. Only the military was in the know about fighting, while they had to rely on instinct to tell them where to go and what to do next.

And living on Kobol instead of searching for Earth? Dude, the Cylons killing humans routinely patrolled Kobol, watching for humans. When they go there the first time, they have to zip in, do their thing, and zip out again before more basestars show up.

I'm guessing after re-reading all your posts that you didn't even attempt to watch anything after the mini-series and maybe one episode of the first, then nothing of the second or third seasons (although, I'll give you that part of the episodes in the third season weren't necessary and kinda boring), and only watched the final 10 episodes of four.

Everything I've discussed I researched or learned from watching the entire show. Most of the holes you point out are mostly covered in the parts you claimed you didn't watch.

I don't care if you didn't feel compelled to watch the entire show. But since you didn't, then seriously - you have no room to complain. Why did you even bother to watch the end, since it builds on stuff out of all the episodes you didn't watch?

Come back and complain to me when you've actually watched it all. Right now, it's like hard to explain anything to you because I'm filling in gaps from the episodes you clearly didn't watch.

 

[Antidamacus]

It's cool that he hasn't watched all of it.

It's just that..

1. He thinks a small amount of people with limited tools, knowledge and experience in a world with no backup, no resupplies and no help could recreate a modern world like it was so simple.

2. The whole emotion kick.

This is a guy who wants to be a robot.

 

[fulano]

Was it only me or was I the only one who didn't find it religious or preachy? The main driving force at work was just something beyond people's understanding, and even then, its plan didn't really come into fruition exactly how it wanted it.

What did it want? My own idea, until contradicted by "The Plan", gears more towards expecting the humans and cylons to break the cycle of "fate" that kept repeating itself, and they living in a happily ever after, of sorts. And yet it didn't work.

Misanthrophic chief Galen Tyrol and Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson's apparent corpse threw a wrench into the whole thing. Just when stuff seemed to be calming down, the chief went bonkers on her wife's killer, and then the nukes came a flyin' fucking everything up, and commiting genocyde on almost the entirety of the humanoid cylon models.

I enjoyed that "God" was more like some weird emanation of nature (if we take verbatim what one character said) that was looking at the whole thing from a general perspective point of view, and even when its avatars began saying "god is love," it still was contradicted with "those who return to Kobol will pay the price in blood." I mean, this "God" seems to make its plans as stuff goes along while keeping track of the general picture. One of its avatars, at the very end, even went as far as saying that "God" doesn't even like to be called that. At the very least, the thing happened to have veiled interest in humankind or some analogue's survival in the end; the show even going as far as to outrightly stating that "God" isn't on anyone's side, leaving one to wonder as of why its apparently keeping everyone dancing in tune for the sake of lulz.

Let's face it, the "God" of battlestar galactica seems to work more like an over excitedly RTS player. Sometimes it plays by the rules, but when things get gnarly it bends them somehow, adding "hero units" here and there through cheat codes, only to remove them later on when the deed is done.

The ending held the notion that there is some kickass thing out there, allegedly natural, that can somehow hack into people's brains, especially half cylon spawns(Hera and, also, Kara thrace if you think a bit about it and connect the dots), and coerce people into doing its bidding, again, for the sake of its own lulz while preserving free will.

Nobody went on how it created the universe, gave them morals, or whether it favored one religion over the other, or even if it cared for anything other than its own agenda which seems to oscillate between keeping life alive(I know--the wording!) generally speaking, or lulzing about by bending the rules from time to time and keeping everyne on its toes.

Sounds like some kind of conscious driving force of sorts that is incredibly powerful, and that it is "something" that people just can't grasp...

The problem with a theistic argument is that it wants things both ways: Insisting on it being found wherever people doesn't presently understand some phenomenon while at the same time defining it for oneself, and basically saying "If you can't explain it then THAT should related to God...somehow...yeah."

So the question BSG posted at the end to me seems to be: What if the concept of God is wrong in the first place?

If you find some kickass thing out there is THAT God just because you can't explain it?

If we are intent on looking for answers shouldn't we make sure the question is the right one to begin with? Humans are fallible when coming up with stuff, and even God could be the product of that.

Whatever the "God" of BSG was, it was definitely more akin to an overexcitable Dr. Manhattan with a lulzy sense of humor than any convenient god I'm aware of.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Sorry, but if you didn't watch the whole thing, your opinion kind of (completely) invalid. If you watched the whole series, you would know the context of the religion(s), and then realize that its totally appropriate.

Real religion is never appropriate in science fiction. Faith is, talking about religion is, believing in stuff is, but actual religious crap that happens? That moves things directly into the realm of fantasy.

you need to go read some real sci fi then cause frankly real religion was littered thru out all of sci fi. yes even when they give the name something hockey, it's still patterned after real religion

 

[fulano]

Personally i absolutely loved the ending

yeah, me too. Though I was actually VERY surprised that more of the main cast didn't die.

 

[Geoffrey42]

Basically not my thing.

The most honest, useful thing you've said this whole time. Also, direct proof that everyone has been wasting their time with you.

We might as well have a poll titled "Filet Mignon - what do you think?" and then have the first post contain an explanation along the lines of "I hate beef."

 

[Elim Garak]

I'm curious what hokey religious part of the show you felt didn't stand up to any reason.

... Any of it? Shared halucinations? God talk? "angels? Ghosts? Prophecies?

1. Your cold hard logic people were in the show you didn't watch. They were the big metal things with guns and no feelings. And Cavil, who specifically wanted what you just said.

Yup, my kind of guy. Cavil was the only one though - the tin cans were monotheists. But they were my favorite part, pretty much. Cavil was rather too emotional, IMHO, but I can see his point.

2. How can "robots that look like people" and "faster than light travel" meet your levels of plausibility for a fiction but throw in a god and suddenly you're all "this isn't believable at all!"

Robots that look like people are very close - didn't you watch the very end? Biological machines - simply a higher level of technology. Faster than light travel? Plausible and explained as part of triumph of intellect - of human mind over hockey religions. Paradigm shifts happen, thanks to science. Not thanks to bowing down to a bunch of stone age deities.

For more information about this point of view go read Richard Dawkins.

Only atheists can be scientists? Try again.

LOL, I didn't say that. But religion takes away human curiosity. Here, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

They did give an explanation. It was called "god". Would it make you feel better if that god was an alien?

Yes, much better - because that explanation would be rooted in reality. "God" is not an explanation - it is an excuse to not explain things. Why is the sky blue? God wants it to be so. Why does it rain? God did it. Etc.

Are you really that mad that a guy dressed in a white lab coat didn't pop up at the end of the series and explain everything to you? Would you have felt better if they described how a god could exist in this fake universe they thought up?

In short - yes. The world has to and does make sense. It follows certain rules. The fact that the show's creators decided that their world does not make sense and does not follow laws of nature and science really annoys me. And makes me feel that the show sucks.

 

[Chickenlittle]

I absolutely loved it.

Everything wrapped up very nicely, and they even put in the "All Around the Watchtower" music bit toward the end.

All the characters had their stories completed, and I thought it was a very fitting end for the Galactica.

So Say We All.

 

[Elim Garak]

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light

TOS had its own share of unexplainable crap. In fact it seems to me the Starbuck in the recent series is a direct homage to the Beings of Light.

OK, by TOS you don't mean Trek, Original Series? As in Star Trek, right? Don't care about the original BSG show, didn't watch it.

So human beings, an inherently emotional animal, on the brink of apocolypse on top of that, turned you off?

It was one of the things, yes. Not just acting emotionally - acting irrationally in ways that do not benefit their survival. Swallow your pride and emotions one of these days and just do what you should.

Only the skinjobs were acting emotionally. But that was only when their resurrection was taken away. Machines for the most part, do not have a self-preservation instinct. You suddendly give them a scenario where they suddenly have to start worrying about it, they will act strangely.

Badly designed machines do not have a self-preservation instinct. Machines should be logical, and should be able to override their emotions in favor of self-preservation and other main goals.

As for the thing about not using targeting systems, they was pretty much explained in the first episode. They couldn't have too many automated systems all networked together because the cylons could hack things really easily (targeting systems most easily) and turn them against the humans.

Ummm... Yea, I saw that. And it still doesn't make sense. The targeting computers do not need to be networked together to work. Network protocols for basic data exchange can be designed and configured to preclude any possibility of infection. They will not be efficient, but it can be done - it is quite simple, actually. Even I can write a network stack like that.

In fact that was why Galactica was the only surviving Battlestar, and why the holocaust was so successful. Its pretty easy to understand really, the less number of systems a hacker has access to, the less damage said hacker can do. I don't really get this complaint anyway. The vipers used regular old conventional projectiles anyway. Missles were rarely used, and when they were they were used at as close a range as possible.

Exactly. WTF do they use such primitive weapons? F14's fight at distances larger than this - 100 miles and up. And that's in an atmosphere, where the missile range is dependent on its fuel capacity, because it cannot shut down its drive. Where are the light speed weapons? US has finally developed a 100 KW laser and is really close to putting it into anti-missile aircraft systems. Why is the BSG tech stuck in the 1960's? Look up AIM-54 Phoenix missiles - produced in 1966.

As for combat capabilities, have you ever played an FPS in your life? Programming AI is hard. The programming in the raiders and centurions was especially rudimentary, they were (as stated explicitly in the show) little more than beasts when compared to the skinjobs. Machines might be stronger and faster than humans, but are they smarter? Certainly not, especially when programmed with a basic hive mind like the raiders were.

That's what I said - dumb. If a 486 can run basic AI that can kick my ass in most games through sheer reaction rate, the cylons and the humans couldn't? Machine sensors and reactions are faster and more accurate, which is the most important thing in space combat. Humans can't think at the speeds necessary for real space combat.

 

[Elim Garak]

I figured that's what it was but you just basically explained it.

They made emotional decisions. Baltar was a scientist and then got all preachy and you though "I'm not preachy"

Baltar I understand - his speeches made me cringe, but I can see how they twisted him through years of psychological torture. He at least tried to be logical. Most others didn't.

A show where everyone made cold hard logical choices would be incredibly boring. That's why they never put too many Vulcans together in the shows.

I disagree. Just because you are logical does not mean that your actions make sense to other people. Does not mean that you are good. It all depends on the premise from which you start, and on your opinions and prejudices.

 

[Elim Garak]

The most honest, useful thing you've said this whole time.

I take exception to that - I was honest throughout the entire thread. Useful? That depends on your definition.

Also, direct proof that everyone has been wasting their time with you.

We might as well have a poll titled "Filet Mignon - what do you think?" and then have the first post contain an explanation along the lines of "I hate beef."

LOL, believe what you will. I have very clear reasons for disliking the show. And if you look at the poll, about 30% of the people agree with me - agree that the show sucked, or that they didn't like it.