Poll: BvS - Batman can never win!
- Thread starter SonOfVoorhees
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Actually I was talking about Marvel using the Hulk and Iron Man as examples against Superman and Batman. The Hulk being the rage powered beast, and Iron Man being completely drunk off his arse while in flying power armour.Reasonable Atheist said:
I much prefer a straight up win, although hard won and only won by Batman using every last ounce of cunning and strength he has. Through defeating Superman Clark Kent should have an epiphany or a realization that makes the win truly a win for both them.
I think it would be great for a lot of reasons. It would show Superman that there was more to winning than super strength. It would also be a message that an ordinary human being can accomplish great things with a strong will.
That is my best ending.
I think it would be great for a lot of reasons. It would show Superman that there was more to winning than super strength. It would also be a message that an ordinary human being can accomplish great things with a strong will.
That is my best ending.
Because he can juggle mountains? That would scare me shit less. Dude's scary. Easy to see why people would turn in fear.Evonisia said:
Wasn't that Lex Luthor? The bottle quote I mean.inu-kun said:
Would explain how the batsuit could take a punch from superman. Though it does ruin future batman movies. Because whom ever he fights in his solo movie should not pose a threat when you have Batman who beat a god and has armour. Next time Bane comes along we will be expecting Batman suit up in the armour and destroy Bane in seconds.inu-kun said:
Batman would probably contrive some clever tactic in which Superman would have no choice but to let him win a fight - it would be an underhand way of winning.
Or it would end up becoming a form of publicity stunt secretly agreed between Batman and Superman, for the benefit of the world watching: If superman takes a dive in their "fight", it would show that man could still defeat even the strongest God like alien through willpower and determination and all that crap. Batman, being batman though, would probably still insist on doing it for real.
Or it would end up becoming a form of publicity stunt secretly agreed between Batman and Superman, for the benefit of the world watching: If superman takes a dive in their "fight", it would show that man could still defeat even the strongest God like alien through willpower and determination and all that crap. Batman, being batman though, would probably still insist on doing it for real.
I'd say the only reason how and why I could see Batman even getting a temporary upper hand is the lack of experience.This Superman is still very green, and I understand that the Batman in the MOS universe is a more experienced, having been active several years and even decades. Personally I'd dig if Batman would be sort of a mentor for Supes in this film, trying to hone him better through rivalry. The end result would be that even though Supes wins in power and fight, Batman is still on top of him about general crimefighting and how their powers should be used to benefit the mankind.
This is what I would like to see most - A Superman movie that properly explores what it means to be Superman.inu-kun said:
Most of the Superman films have Christ imagery up the ass, and that is completely wrong.
Superman isn't supposed to be Jesus, Superman is supposed to be Moses!
:- Superman is trying to lead humanity into the Promised Land, a place where they have learned compassion, selflessness and love for one another and can live in peace.
Jesus on the other hand did all the work to save people from their sins - Taking the sacrifice, the temptations, and the hardships himself to create a fullproof method of salvation. - That is what Superman cannot do. He must let humanity struggle on and find peace on their own terms, becoming a better race through their own development.
Like Moses Superman can show them the way, but they have to walk it.
Unlike Jesus Superman cannot create their salvation for them. They must achieve it themselves, or else it's a dystopia, not a paradise.
He is actually a really complex character. He cannot get too involved or he will make humanity reliant on him, yet he sees the suffering on earth and knows he has the power to help. So where is the balance?
(I suppose there are similarities to the Star Trek Prime Directive)
Batman can give it his all to protect Gotham and Earth, and doesn't have to worry about this, but Superman, while he can let loose on the occasional horrors that throw down on Earth (Zod, Darkseid, Doomsday) must otherwise hold himself back, and not meddle too deeply in the affairs of men, because he knows that one day he won't be there to protect humanity, and then they will either destroy themselves (If he was too heavy handed) or thrive without him (If they have learned to live harmoniously)
Superman's got some really interesting themes and philosophy going on. It's a shame it's usually brushed aside to focus on "Watch me punch this thing reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hard!"
Batman will get a hold of Kryptonite somehow, through reasons that probably won't make a lot of sense. Superman will probably also underestimate his fortitude and stamina or something, so it looks sufficiently "close".
I hope Batman just kicks his ass, frankly, because the whole thing is ridiculous as warm beer and Superman is lazy writing. Blerg.
I hope Batman just kicks his ass, frankly, because the whole thing is ridiculous as warm beer and Superman is lazy writing. Blerg.
Now I'm not claiming to be an expert on comics...as a matter of fact the only DC comic I've ever read is The Killing Joke...but traditionally when Batman fights Superman, doesn't he normally have some form of Kryptonite at his disposal? A friend of mine who is big on DC Comics has said that Batman keeps a Kryptonite ring in his magical belt of wonder at all times.
Now here's where my ignorance of the comic comes into play: but isn't Kryptonite's effect instantaneous on Superman? Isn't it more akin to an instant crippling of his power rather than just a slow drain? I thought the entire point of it was to instantly render Superman - a guy who has literally taken hold of the fabric of reality to push a galaxy (or so I've been told by my friend that "knows" comics) - helpless?
With Luthor in the movie, I wouldn't be surprised if Batman manages to get himself some Kryptonite for the fight. Because that's quite literally his only ace in the whole. Without a way to cripple Superman then Batman could use all his gadgets, weapons, 10-styles worth of black belts, and he really might as well just be fighting a massive cement wall for all the good it would do.
Now here's where my ignorance of the comic comes into play: but isn't Kryptonite's effect instantaneous on Superman? Isn't it more akin to an instant crippling of his power rather than just a slow drain? I thought the entire point of it was to instantly render Superman - a guy who has literally taken hold of the fabric of reality to push a galaxy (or so I've been told by my friend that "knows" comics) - helpless?
With Luthor in the movie, I wouldn't be surprised if Batman manages to get himself some Kryptonite for the fight. Because that's quite literally his only ace in the whole. Without a way to cripple Superman then Batman could use all his gadgets, weapons, 10-styles worth of black belts, and he really might as well just be fighting a massive cement wall for all the good it would do.
Except Superman isn't the most powerful in DC. At all. I could list dozens of heroes and villains that are more powerful or at least capable of taking him down, either with brains or brawn.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Well last film they said they were aiming to avoid the whole kryptonite. I mean, good for them and all. This is really a matter of writer's interpretation and this is the problem with DC. Hundreds of writers of thousands of stories of thousands heroes doing millions of things, all different from the last. Sometimes it hardly effects him, sometimes it gives him a nasty migraine, sometimes it incapacitates him, some time it basically makes his head explode out of his backside in seconds. It really does vary, more often than not for dramatic effect.RJ 17 said:
Barbas said:
surely Batman is lazy writing since you just gave an example of how he'd win because of hand-waved plot armour. Plus, y'know, Superman's generally not that lazy script-wise since you have to contrive a challenge for someone like him and usually ends up being about how Supes as a character addresses real life concerns (like that storyline with the Elite or Grant Morrison's Action Comics run).
OT: I know that Batman's going to win because logic and common sense do not apply to this argument (though my bet is Lex Luthor intervenes so Batman wins and then he feels bad, but make no mistake, it'll be a CRUSHING victory because he's Batman and there can be no other way.)
But yeah, generally not that psyched. Frank Miller was great on Daredevil but began to lose his goddamn mind around Sin City/300 time until he went full blown nut with Holy Terror. And I'm getting a very strong Frank Miller emulation vibe from the trailer. Ahh, I dunno, it might not suck.
Batman's probably going to get one of those Kryptonian power armors Zodd and his men were wearing. Remember, they were flinging Supes around like a ragdoll in those even before they gained the super-powers due to the Sun/Earth's atmosphere or whatever, so it's logical that Batman would get his hands on the tech and use it against Supes.
As for who would win, probably neither. These are the two workhorses of the DC universe, so the studio is not going to make either of them look that bad. Instead they are going to punch each other for a while and once they are done with that they realize there is some other nefarious ne'er-do-well causing mischief in the background and they unite their forces to deal with the rascally evildoer.
As for who would win, probably neither. These are the two workhorses of the DC universe, so the studio is not going to make either of them look that bad. Instead they are going to punch each other for a while and once they are done with that they realize there is some other nefarious ne'er-do-well causing mischief in the background and they unite their forces to deal with the rascally evildoer.
Can somebody please clear up an issue in my understanding please?
I don't read many comics, it's mainly movies and old cartoons where I get my info. But a lot of people are saying superman is so strong and fast he simply can't lose as Batmans only powers are being above a normal human in skill, brains and money.
Isn't Lex Luthor just a human with above average brains, skills and money? That crap has been dragged out for god knows how long, albeit with liberal use of kryptonite.
It may just be because the sites I go to don't argue comics much, but why does Lex get a pass and the bat is instantly deemed fodder by a lot of people?
I don't read many comics, it's mainly movies and old cartoons where I get my info. But a lot of people are saying superman is so strong and fast he simply can't lose as Batmans only powers are being above a normal human in skill, brains and money.
Isn't Lex Luthor just a human with above average brains, skills and money? That crap has been dragged out for god knows how long, albeit with liberal use of kryptonite.
It may just be because the sites I go to don't argue comics much, but why does Lex get a pass and the bat is instantly deemed fodder by a lot of people?
Actually if there's some Kryptonian technology left on Earth it would be very possible for either Bats or Luthor to cobble together a Phantom Zone projector. That would take Supes out of the fight quite handily. With the nifty caveat that Bats could later realize that Supes was needed against some other threat so the projector is then used to bring him back.RJ 17 said:
It sounds like you're assuming the BvS fight will be the climax, which it won't. They may be playing up the Batman/Superman fight for marketing but keep in mind that this movie sets up the Justice League, so there's no chance Bats and Supes by the end aren't on good terms with each other. Also, "standing up" to Superman makes it sound like Superman is a bully or an oppressor, when Man of Steel showed pretty clearly he's anything but that.SonOfVoorhees said:
As for the Dark Knight Returns, which everyone loves to cite as proof that Batman can beat Superman in a fight... uh, Batman LOST. He accomplished his goals ideologically but even throwing everything he could at Superman, he still got his butt whupped. He even cheated by having Green Arrow help him! That comic is NOT a good source of evidence for Batman's ability to outfight Superman.
It's impossible to determine. Batman is the perfect example of the difficulties in predicting a fictional world. In any real contest, any one of his super-powered counterparts would beat him easily, but because it's fiction, Batman always exactly what he needs to succeed. It basically depends on whether the guy who wrote the screenplay is a batman fan. If he is, batman will win. If he's not, Superman will win.