Poll: Can suicide be rational?

Private Custard

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Dec 30, 2007
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Yes, suicide can be rational.

For around ten years now, I've been adamant that old age won't kill me.........dignitas in Switzerland will. The clock is ticking and I have 36 years left. As soon as I have a better idea things might change, but until then, I won't be an old person in this country, it's shitty enought for OAPs already, imagine how bad it can get!

This has been planned and decided in a totally rational manner.
 

Virus017

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Feb 20, 2009
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Twilight_guy said:
Suicide is for pansy. It's a cowards way out. A real man faces his problems with unblinking determination and suffers through them. You can rationally decided to be a coward, but suicide is never the right option.
Unless we have a very painful terminal disease we have no right to judge people, especially not with narrow minded, inconsiderate opinions such as this.
 

Shycte

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Mar 10, 2009
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For a rational person, no.

People who commit suicide are not rational though, so from their point of view. Yes.
 

Abi79

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Sep 19, 2007
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SultanP said:
"Life is like reading a book, if the first half sucked then there's a great chance that the other half will too, and if we are reading a book, we wouldn't keep on reading."
Yes, but the bad book was probably written in the space of a few years. On average, our life can last up to 80 years. That is more than enough time to analyze the situation, figure out what goes wrong, and fix it. In my opinion, it is NEVER too late to change your lifestyle.

Can suicide be rational? Yes, but after a good night's sleep and a little bit of thought, you'll probably come to the conclusion that killing yourself won't help much. Instead of taking the chance to have fun in life, why decide to abandon it altogether?
 

Wyatt

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Feb 14, 2008
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given the fact we are all going to die anyhow i say that clinging to life at any price isnt rational.

im not suicidal but im not obsessed with life either. i belive in Jesus and know that i have an after life awating me that im kinda looking forward too. in fact, if anything, i could say im bored with this life and im willing to move on at any time. i know the rules to this 'game' now and it no longer interests me. couple this with the fact that if death truly IS the end and there IS no after life ........ so what? im gunna end up dead eventualy no matter what if anything is beyond the grave so why worry about it.

people often look at me as kind of a bug under glass when the topic of death comes up, i just dont look at life and death the same way as most 'rational' people do, but while i understand them and their opinions, seldom do i find anyone that understands let alone agrees with mine. i just dont have any fear of death. its coming and no matter whats on the other side of the grave, be it heaven, hell, cosmic space aliens, or just worm food, in any case ive seen what this life offers and so its nothing all that special that ill cling to it.

as for it being 'cowardly' i dont agree either. to me the real cowards are those that cling to life at any cost because they are scared to either move on or just end. the whole selfish argument is nonsence too. if a person TRULY wants to face death than the selfish ones are those that would keep them here. whats more selfish, a person who wants to move on (generaly because of some inhuman form of pain) or someone who wants to keep them here to suffer that pain because losing them might cause some of that pain to be spread?

how does keeping someone with cancer alive to suffer NOT be called selfish by those that would keep them alive at any cost? how does keeping someone alive with serious depression who can do nothing but live a life of either depression or being drugged all the time ammount to anything but selfishness on those that would keep them? i say its selfish to think that YOUR pain of loss is more importiant than THEIR pain if they keep on living.

life and death? im rational and i just dont give a shit either way. death is coming no matter HOW it arrives. its not rational to think that it should be avoided as long as possable no matter what. in fact id argue that life can be more enjoyable once you give up your fears about losing it one day.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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Most people try to commit suicide/hurt themselves for attention.
I'd say it's logical that someone would want to kill themselves.
Read The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus, it deals with suicide (it's an existentialist book).

Here's a brief wiki rundown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus#Chapter_1:_An_Absurd_Reasoning
Camus undertakes to answer what he considers to be the only question of philosophy that matters: Does the realization of the meaninglessness and absurdity of life necessarily require suicide?

He begins by describing the absurd condition: much of our life is built on the hope for tomorrow yet tomorrow brings us closer to death and is the ultimate enemy; people live as if they didn't know about the certainty of death; once stripped of its common romanticisms, the world is a foreign, strange and inhuman place; true knowledge is impossible and rationality and science cannot explain the world: their stories ultimately end in meaningless abstractions, in metaphors. "From the moment absurdity is recognized, it becomes a passion, the most harrowing of all."

It is not the world that is absurd, nor human thought: the absurd arises when the human need to understand meets the unreasonableness of the world, when "my appetite for the absolute and for unity" meets "the impossibility of reducing this world to a rational and reasonable principle."

He then characterizes a number of philosophies that describe and attempt to deal with this feeling of the absurd, by Heidegger, Jaspers, Shestov, Kierkegaard and Husserl. All of these, he claims, commit "philosophical suicide" by reaching conclusions that contradict the original absurd position, either by abandoning reason and turning to God, as in the case of Kierkegaard and Shestov, or by elevating reason and ultimately arriving at ubiquitous Platonian forms and an abstract god, as in the case of Husserl.

For Camus, who set out to take the absurd seriously and follow it to its final conclusions, these "leaps" cannot convince. Taking the absurd seriously means acknowledging the contradiction between the desire of human reason and the unreasonable world. Suicide, then, also must be rejected: without man, the absurd cannot exist. The contradiction must be lived; reason and its limits must be acknowledged, without hope.

While the question of human freedom in the metaphysical sense loses interest to the absurd man, he gains freedom in a very concrete sense: no longer bound by hope for a better future or eternity, without a need to pursue life's purpose or to create meaning, "he enjoys a freedom with regard to common rules".

To embrace the absurd implies embracing all that the unreasonable world has to offer. Without a meaning in life, there is no scale of values. "What counts is not the best living but the most living."

Thus, Camus arrives at three consequences from the full acceptance of the absurd: revolt, freedom, and passion.
 

Trace2010

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Aug 10, 2008
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Suicide is still the best way to avoid shame...

OOPS too late...

damn, I knew I should have committed suicide! ;)

Seriously though...

EDIT: With insurance companies refusing to pay benefits to suicide "victims", unfortunately one of the main reasons for suicide has been removed. Very few people are in a better position after committing suicide than before.
 

neoman10

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Sep 23, 2008
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*disturbed at number of people who said yes*

but no, absolutely no

its just a end to a bad thing now and good things of the future

plus being a christian (yeah, get at me!) I believe that its gonna end up even worse

I like Dante's version of it

so to the suicides out there, have fun in the forest
 

similar.squirrel

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Mar 28, 2009
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I still see the termination of one's own life as the ultimate act of free will. Although I've been called an idiot because of it many a time.

Although there may be certain factors influencing the decision, ending your own life seems to go against all programming, and that's beautiful. Mind over matter, and all that.

The act really shouldn't be stigmatised, or dismissed as cowardice [although it may be, in some cases].

Humans like to step into the unknown. One of our few redeeming characteristics.

In my opinion.
 

Mr_Powers

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Jul 11, 2008
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Suicide is always logical because no sane person would ever willingly do anything that didn't make sense to them.

A good example of this is the attitude of many Japanese during WWII. When defeat was immanent a lot of times they would engage in suicidal charges and or kill themselves in order to prevent capture. This was made scene to them because they believed that there was more honor in dieing by whatever method was available, than in being captured and taken prisoner. Suicide always makes sense to its victims.
 

Chipperz

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Apr 27, 2009
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I'm amazed at the ammount of people throwing around terms like "real man" and "coward" on this subject. I've considered it, I really have. There have been times in my life when my family and friends have felt distant, I'd just dropped out of Uni, I had several broken ribs from when my ex had decided to get another boyfriend and couldn't get a job because I didn't have any education or experience. I didn't because I'm too much of a coward to finish the damn job.

When you get to that stage, you are convinced your family doesn't care and that you don't have any friends, so I can't see it being a selfish act. You can't see the brightness at the end of the road, and if you're religious, you don't give a damn about Hell because you feel you're living it now. It's the ultimate in rationality. Life is shit, at least ending it will free up some oxygen for someone who might be worth it.

Life's worked out pretty well for me now, but speaking as someone who's stared at a handfull of pills and a bottle of Vodka and seriously considered it, I can understand where people who have the balls to go through with it are coming from.
 

4l13n

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Sep 4, 2008
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I have no idea of how people with suicidal thoughts actually reason. By saying that they want to kill themselves because they are for example having a really hard time at the moment indicates that the believe that they think that they will be concious after death to realize how much better everything is now that they are dead. Which is completely retarded!
 

CuddlyCombine

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Sep 12, 2007
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Mimsofthedawg said:
Suicide is purely selfish. Even when one thinks it would be better for their family, or whatever, to no longer be in the situation they're in, it makes absolutely no sense. We can always work to make ourselves better, and those around us better. If you're dead, you can't do that. Killing yourself is giving up.
Would it be selfish if there was nobody else who cared? You'd be freeing up the strain on food, water, and energy consumption; there are millions of things which you'd theoretically help out. And people who are committing suicide go into it knowing that they won't be able to help; that's not a secret nobody's discovered. Sometimes, they just do want to give up, as you've said.

Mimsofthedawg said:
No body likes the team that throws in the towel and forfeits.
To be fair, I don't imagine the whole ordeal is for the purpose of being well-liked. Life is not a sport.

Mimsofthedawg said:
Oh, but you don't care about what other people think? Ironic, since the only reason why you're killing yourself is because people have told you that you can't win. Even if that voice is from you, it's still a lie. You do NOTHING in suicide, everything is lost in death; you do everything in life, anything is given in persevering.
But perseverance can be a dead end. Sometimes, you really can't win, or at least I think so. Idealistically, everyone could have a slice of their pie and live a happy life, but sometimes that's just not how it works out...

Mimsofthedawg said:
Of course, this entire argument depends on your point of view. Apparently you think that suicide is rational when a problem gets beyond fixing, implying humanity has the capabilities to fix things.
I find this contradictory, given that you just stated perseverance gives you 'anything'... so then sometimes there are no options?

Mimsofthedawg said:
Look at the world around you - what evidence do you see of our justice? We can't fix anything - should we all just go and kill ourselves when the law of entropy dictates we're all going to waste away to nothing? A wise man once said everything's meaningless, what point is there in life anyways? There isn't any point in life, not for ourselves at least.
This is where the existential nihilism comes into play. That's a question beyond our scope; whether or not we have any 'purpose' is a question that won't ever be answered. And I don't think there's anyone who wants everyone to commit suicide because the world is screwed (aside from Heaven's Gate whackjobs).

Mimsofthedawg said:
In the greatest twist of fate, when we stop caring about ourselves and start giving our lives away to Love of all those around us, we find a world that begins to fit together. We can't fix anything, but Love heals everything. Life begins when we die.
This sentence is a bit cloudy to me.

Mimsofthedawg said:
Suicide is never rational; it isn't freedom, it's only torture. Redemption is found in life, life is found in focusing on others; this is love, this is peace, this is truth, this is rational.
Respectable opinion (really, I do respect it, even if I'm the hungry vulture to your rotting carcass), though I don't see how it's torture (unless you mean torture for others, which makes sense). And, again, redemption may not always be there, others may not always be there. Love, peace and truth exist, but they're not guaranteed aspects of life.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Sep 3, 2008
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Yes, it can in fact be rational. It would seem, that the only thing required is that a person uses logic to come to the conclusion that suicide is a viable option for the future. Some people may disagree with the decision, but lets face it - suicide is the answer to the only philosophical question that actually has much merit: "Is living worth the trouble".

Of course, many people just look at the immediately obvious scenarios where morbidly depressed individuals decide that jumping off a bridge is likely going to turn out better than having to go to work yet again. People regularly commit suicide for more exciting reasons. What of the soldiers who defended the Alamo (in Texas)? Surely they knew that they could not hope to hold against the force arrayed against them, and yet they largely chose to stay. While the soldiers themselves may not have personally ended their own lives, they certainly made a clear and logical decision that would, in all likelyhood, lead to their demise.
 

Time Travelling Toaster

The Toast with the 'Tache
Mar 1, 2009
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I've been trying to rationalise this for a while now, but I can't so no suicide isn't rational to me at least.
What is the point in ending a life when it seems rough ? Or is it worth the trouble living ?
The answer to the second question is no in my opinion at least.
But to the poster above me (at time of writing anyway) I think this is posed as self inflicted suicide rather than fighting to death against an overwhelming force.
 

messiah_complex

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May 8, 2009
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at the end of the day....if religion can be regarded as rational, which as a devote atheist, i actually believe it might be, then so too can suicide.