Poll: Can suicide be rational?

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

I voted yes, but that's mainly due to the fact that the question is rather vague. If the question started with "Is" rather than "Can", then I would have probably answered differently.
But because of the "Can", to answer the question we have to look at every viewpoint...

For the most part, and for most modern situations, suicide is not logical/rational.
But say you pissed someone off something awful. They come into your home and state that it's either you, or your family and everyone close to you. Looking at this logically/rationally, it's your life or the lives of many, so it should be you who bites the bullet (or however else you're going to die ).

While this situation isn't going to happen often, this situation is still covered by the fact that the question begins with "can".

But good work CuddlyCombine, this topic seems to have sparked quite a bit of interest.

 

[demonsaber]

Suicide is a very selfish thing to do, and will only cause pain after you leave.

That is if you actually have people that care about you. Hell the only person that would care if I killed myself is my fiance, who would probably go on a drug binder and forget me anyways. I never met my dad and my mother disowned me, so yea.. (well my step dad would care a bit but it would be more of a why the fuck did he do that sort of thing)

On that note I have thought of suicide many times in my life. My family situations have never been good and the entire family took it out on me. I used to get beaten up by most of the family my entire life and yelled at and insulted any time I opened my mouth. I also got harassed horribly at school because I was far more intelligent than the other children and actually enjoyed reading (which is completely rare where I live). I started thinking about suicide since I was in the fourth grade after my mother bought me my first knife (I collect knives). There are times when you can feel so hated, that you seek an escape from anywhere. Luckily for me, I discovered video games and computers and poured all my attention into them and drowned out the world for the first half of my life which gave me many life skills and the online world allowed me to act out any fantasies of violence and rage that I would have potentially done in real life. Without books or computers, I quite possibly could have taken my life in the 7th grade where the insults picked up heavily because people knew I would not fight back because my brother kicking my ass every day made me doubt myself to the point where I could not even drawing a line on a piece of paper without thinking I had fucked it up somehow. I still think about suicide to this day and the only real thing that stops me is the fact that I don't know what happens when we die and I do not want to feel the pain.

Anyways, enough of my sob story. Basically I am saying that I could see where someone would commit suicide and what could push them to it. Life is fucked up and there are times when you cannot do shit about it. I continue to troop on but there are people that cannot make the effort or feel that life has fucked them that royally.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

What would make you hate being super rich?

The fact that I have never, in my entire life, wanted to be rich?

Suicide is a very selfish thing to do, and will only cause pain after you leave.

Maybe so, but it's not going to cause you any pain.

Yes, but it wouldn't harm you to be rich, you could just go about your life as normal just with loads more stuff. I've never just thought to myself, wow, wouldn't it be great to be rich, but it wouldn't make life any worse.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Yes, but it wouldn't harm you to be rich, you could just go about your life as normal just with loads more stuff. I've never just thought to myself, wow, wouldn't it be great to be rich, but it wouldn't make life any worse.

I don't want or even like stuff.
And anyway, I'm a packrat. If I could buy a bunch of shit, I would.
Then I'd have to move out of my tiny, comfortable apartment.

You just completely contradicted yourself, you said you don't want or even like stuff and yet you would buy a load of it anyway?

Anyway, I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't want to be rich but I respect your opinion.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Death is far too final. There is absolutely no return, and no-one knows what's on the other side for sure.

Both of those factors make it a rather irrational decision.

As a temperamental Christian, I am somewhat apprehensive of suicide, because "you'll burn in Hell! HA HA!" has been forced down my throat.

But if I were an Athiest, it'd mean I would end up in nothing. And non-existence is just shit.

If I were Agnostic that'd be worse, because i'd have no fucking clue.

So, whatever, think what you like on the topic.

Don't you think that if your life was really horrible and you asked God to forgive you and then killed yourself, you wouldn't. Besides, non existence is far better than shit existence. (I'm an Atheist by the way)

 

[CuddlyCombine]

I voted yes, but that's mainly due to the fact that the question is rather vague. If the question started with "Is" rather than "Can", then I would have probably answered differently.
But because of the "Can", to answer the question we have to look at every viewpoint...

That's the point of the "can". I was going to write "is", but that implies that there's a fixed set of morals here, arbitrating a black or white scenario. That's not the case, however; all viewpoints have to be accounted for.

For the most part, and for most modern situations, suicide is not logical/rational.
But say you pissed someone off something awful. They come into your home and state that it's either you, or your family and everyone close to you. Looking at this logically/rationally, it's your life or the lives of many, so it should be you who bites the bullet (or however else you're going to die ).

Would that really be suicide? I mean, most people would gladly give their lives for their loved ones, but if someone's standing there offering you the gun, I don't think it fits suicide anymore. More like martyrdom or something.

But good work CuddlyCombine, this topic seems to have sparked quite a bit of interest.

Why thank you! And there was barely any flame baiting. I've got to say, the Escapist runs a tight ship when it comes to this sort of stuff.

 

[Crowghast]

Death is far too final. There is absolutely no return, and no-one knows what's on the other side for sure.

Both of those factors make it a rather irrational decision.

As a temperamental Christian, I am somewhat apprehensive of suicide, because "you'll burn in Hell! HA HA!" has been forced down my throat.

But if I were an Athiest, it'd mean I would end up in nothing. And non-existence is just shit.

If I were Agnostic that'd be worse, because i'd have no fucking clue.

So, whatever, think what you like on the topic.

Don't you think that if your life was really horrible and you asked God to forgive you and then killed yourself, you wouldn't. Besides, non existence is far better than shit existence. (I'm an Atheist by the way)

Ask God for forgiveness? Wait a moment, I get your drift, you think i'm [i\]that[/i] kind of Christian, don't you? The kind that say [i\]"Earth-was-made-in-seven-days,-don't-believe-it?-Burn-in-Hell"[/i] sort, right?

No, I am not. I don't think any amount of word-mouthing to my selected deity will help me in a tangible way. By that I mean to say: If he did help, I probably wouldn't notice, or i'd downright ignore it.

And, to be honest, my life truly is shit. Whose fault is it? Mine. Will I kill myself? No. Because i'd go to Hell? No. Becuase that ould make me a pussy ragequit!-er.

As for the statement: "Non-existence is better than shit existence", I must say, I still don't get why so many people would rather die than deal with their life.

The only feasible reason to kill yourself would be if you were under torture in an imprisonment camp. (Although there [i\]is[/i] the chance to escape, or be rescued.)

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Death is far too final. There is absolutely no return, and no-one knows what's on the other side for sure.

Both of those factors make it a rather irrational decision.

As a temperamental Christian, I am somewhat apprehensive of suicide, because "you'll burn in Hell! HA HA!" has been forced down my throat.

But if I were an Athiest, it'd mean I would end up in nothing. And non-existence is just shit.

If I were Agnostic that'd be worse, because i'd have no fucking clue.

So, whatever, think what you like on the topic.

Don't you think that if your life was really horrible and you asked God to forgive you and then killed yourself, you wouldn't. Besides, non existence is far better than shit existence. (I'm an Atheist by the way)

Ask God for forgiveness? Wait a moment, I get your drift, you think i'm [i\]that[/i] kind of Christian, don't you? The kind that say [i\]"Earth-was-made-in-seven-days,-don't-believe-it?-Burn-in-Hell"[/i] sort, right?

No, I am not. I don't think any amount of word-mouthing to my selected deity will help me in a tangible way. By that I mean to say: If he did help, I probably wouldn't notice, or i'd downright ignore it.

And, to be honest, my life truly is shit. Whose fault is it? Mine. Will I kill myself? No. Because i'd go to Hell? No. Becuase that ould make me a pussy ragequit!-er.

As for the statement: "Non-existence is better than shit existence", I must say, I still don't get why so many people would rather die than deal with their life.

The only feasible reason to kill yourself would be if you were under torture in an imprisonment camp. (Although there [i\]is[/i] the chance to escape, or be rescued.)

I think if you can deal with your life and make it better, then suicide is probably a bad option, but if you just completely hate it and your personal opinion is that you want to die then what judgement can anyone else pass on you? It's not their choice it's yours. There's no point in trying to rationalize suicide because you're only trying to work out how other people rationalize but from your world view, you are saying that other people must think like you and so if they have a reason and you don't accept it then they are wrong.

 

[Crowghast]

Death is far too final. There is absolutely no return, and no-one knows what's on the other side for sure.

Both of those factors make it a rather irrational decision.

As a temperamental Christian, I am somewhat apprehensive of suicide, because "you'll burn in Hell! HA HA!" has been forced down my throat.

But if I were an Athiest, it'd mean I would end up in nothing. And non-existence is just shit.

If I were Agnostic that'd be worse, because i'd have no fucking clue.

So, whatever, think what you like on the topic.

Don't you think that if your life was really horrible and you asked God to forgive you and then killed yourself, you wouldn't. Besides, non existence is far better than shit existence. (I'm an Atheist by the way)

Ask God for forgiveness? Wait a moment, I get your drift, you think i'm [i\]that[/i] kind of Christian, don't you? The kind that say [i\]"Earth-was-made-in-seven-days,-don't-believe-it?-Burn-in-Hell"[/i] sort, right?

No, I am not. I don't think any amount of word-mouthing to my selected deity will help me in a tangible way. By that I mean to say: If he did help, I probably wouldn't notice, or i'd downright ignore it.

And, to be honest, my life truly is shit. Whose fault is it? Mine. Will I kill myself? No. Because i'd go to Hell? No. Becuase that ould make me a pussy ragequit!-er.

As for the statement: "Non-existence is better than shit existence", I must say, I still don't get why so many people would rather die than deal with their life.

The only feasible reason to kill yourself would be if you were under torture in an imprisonment camp. (Although there [i\]is[/i] the chance to escape, or be rescued.)

I think if you can deal with your life and make it better, then suicide is probably a bad option, but if you just completely hate it and your personal opinion is that you want to die then what judgement can anyone else pass on you? It's not their choice it's yours. There's no point in trying to rationalize suicide because you're only trying to work out how other people rationalize but from your world view, you are saying that other people must think like you and so if they have a reason and you don't accept it then they are wrong.

Ah, I get that part.

If you alrwady want to kill yourself, than go ahead.

Freedom of choice, right?

I'll rephrase what I said then: I [i\]think[/i], in my most humble and personal opinion, what I said above.

There.

I fixed it.

I have an intense dislike for semantics, I like to just assume that everything is everyone's opinion. (And I definitely don't remember specifying that everyone thinks like me... that one for sure.)

 

[SultanP]

I have no idea of how people with suicidal thoughts actually reason. By saying that they want to kill themselves because they are for example having a really hard time at the moment indicates that the believe that they think that they will be concious after death to realize how much better everything is now that they are dead. Which is completely retarded!

That makes no sense. You can't say that people believe they will be concious and relieved after they die. Lots of them, or us, just believe that there is nothing. Therefore we will not be concious, adn able to be relieved, we just won't be alive. Which would be a good thing because being alive often sucks hard.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

Would that really be suicide? I mean, most people would gladly give their lives for their loved ones, but if someone's standing there offering you the gun, I don't think it fits suicide anymore. More like martyrdom or something.

I was just pointing out that there were going to be situations where it can be rational is all.

Why thank you! And there was barely any flame baiting. I've got to say, the Escapist runs a tight ship when it comes to this sort of stuff.
No problem.
And yea, they do. This is the only forum I go to nowadays, this seems to be one of the few rational, intelligent forums left on the internet.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Death is far too final. There is absolutely no return, and no-one knows what's on the other side for sure.

Both of those factors make it a rather irrational decision.

As a temperamental Christian, I am somewhat apprehensive of suicide, because "you'll burn in Hell! HA HA!" has been forced down my throat.

But if I were an Athiest, it'd mean I would end up in nothing. And non-existence is just shit.

If I were Agnostic that'd be worse, because i'd have no fucking clue.

So, whatever, think what you like on the topic.

Don't you think that if your life was really horrible and you asked God to forgive you and then killed yourself, you wouldn't. Besides, non existence is far better than shit existence. (I'm an Atheist by the way)

Ask God for forgiveness? Wait a moment, I get your drift, you think i'm [i\]that[/i] kind of Christian, don't you? The kind that say [i\]"Earth-was-made-in-seven-days,-don't-believe-it?-Burn-in-Hell"[/i] sort, right?

No, I am not. I don't think any amount of word-mouthing to my selected deity will help me in a tangible way. By that I mean to say: If he did help, I probably wouldn't notice, or i'd downright ignore it.

And, to be honest, my life truly is shit. Whose fault is it? Mine. Will I kill myself? No. Because i'd go to Hell? No. Becuase that ould make me a pussy ragequit!-er.

As for the statement: "Non-existence is better than shit existence", I must say, I still don't get why so many people would rather die than deal with their life.

The only feasible reason to kill yourself would be if you were under torture in an imprisonment camp. (Although there [i\]is[/i] the chance to escape, or be rescued.)

I think if you can deal with your life and make it better, then suicide is probably a bad option, but if you just completely hate it and your personal opinion is that you want to die then what judgement can anyone else pass on you? It's not their choice it's yours. There's no point in trying to rationalize suicide because you're only trying to work out how other people rationalize but from your world view, you are saying that other people must think like you and so if they have a reason and you don't accept it then they are wrong.

Ah, I get that part.

If you alrwady want to kill yourself, than go ahead.

Freedom of choice, right?

I'll rephrase what I said then: I [i\]think[/i], in my most humble and personal opinion, what I said above.

There.

I fixed it.

I have an intense dislike for semantics, I like to just assume that everything is everyone's opinion. (And I definitely don't remember specifying that everyone thinks like me... that one for sure.)

Sorry, it was just when you said the only feasible reason in that kind of imperative manner got me, but i think we're generally in agreement.

 

[CuddlyCombine]

meh, I think we've both made our points to the nth degree and continuing to argue would just lead us into pointless circles... nevertheless, I wanna say that you're right, fallacies are everywhere, and that's where faith comes in. Don't read too much into that statement, I'm not necessarily talking about religion. Just faith that something good may happen, or bad, or whatever. It's like a game of Fallout... we all end up being the last, best hope for humanity, the scourge of humanity, or whatever that neutral karma guy is (lol...). At any rate - good debate.

God, I love being your advocate. lol.

I definitely leave a little room for faith in my mindset, which is otherwise logical. I mean, there are some universal forces that we can't understand and probably won't ever; call it God, Chaos, or whatever you wish, but yeah, I agree that it plays a significant part in our lives. Perhaps suicide can be committed on faith? Hmm...