Poll: Can suicide be rational?

[Oldmanwillow]

It can be rational. Let's say an invading army is going through town, torturing and killing everyone. You know they will find you. Would you kill yourself to avoid being tortured and killed?

The correct answer to this situation is to grab your nearest fire arm (AR15 for me). Then go fight and die because it will grant you entrance into Vahalla.

In all honesty suicide can be very rational. Let just say you have just be diagnosed with alzheimer's. So you know that over time you will slowly forget everything that you ever enjoyed out of life. So being a rational person you decided that I want to die with my dignity by own hand rather than waiting like an animal to die.

Or how about this because this is what is going to happen to me. I believe that life doesnt justify itself, I believe that the actions that we take throughout our life is what justifies life. So what happens when you age to a point in your life that you cannot continue doing the actions that gave meaning to your life? If that happened to me i couldn't justify my next breath and i would seek death as quickly as possible.

Everyone needs to understand and accept that we are all going to die. We might as well be the persons that choose where and when. Plus death is the only thing in life that we cannot make any judgements about will happen after. Its a true 50/50 either there is a god or there isn't. Even if theres a god we cannot predict what this being will be like. doesn't the idea of being in an absolute uncertainty sound at least interesting. For me its the greatest adventure. (this doesn't mean that i am in a hurry to die just means i curious)

 

[azadiscool]

With people like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91564-Columnist-Links-Games-to-Acceptance-of-Torture] running around, I would considering anything up to first degree murder rational...able.

Seriously, though, there are worse things than death.

Which, funnily enough, happens to coincide with the previously mentioned topic [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91564-Columnist-Links-Games-to-Acceptance-of-Torture].

 

[lizards]

i view on sucide is they are all rational but not for the right reasons:

the only reason we dont all commit sucide is because our natural instincts tell us not to and to preserve our life at all costs when all we do it go to school go to college for tell your 50 retire and sit around all day and you do all that just to die

i think that if sucide enters your mind for anyone over 21 then yes it is rational

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I don't know. Ending your own existence doesn't seem all that rational to me. I mean, there are those who say that existence doesn't justify suffering - which is a critique often used against the crueler practices of the farming and animal psychological experimentation industries. But, personally, I would rather exist than end my suffering. Especially if I were in relatively good physical health.

It doesn't seem like a good deal. I'm gone. That's it.

 

[bitzi61]

Well, according to Durkheim, not only is suicide rational, but it is a necessary part of society. (See Classical Sociological Theory textbook for reference).

However, I think it's wrong EXCEPT for they way they allow it in some European countries, as in, with more then one doctor, agreeing that you have no hope in hell of recovering..

 

[CuddlyCombine]

Or you can get a job flipping burgers as a start, and rent a crappy room, as a start. Not hard.

Ok, now what? You're making minimum wage, have to rent a room, and have to hook up with basic necessities. Next, you probably need a degree or some sort of education; if not, you need better opportunities. You go to an employer and, when they ask what experience you have, you say "Burger flipping." You get rejected. Or, you spend a good ten years trying to build up your resume. I mean, sure, you can have a life, but I'd assume that it wouldn't be the ideal thing (for most people, anyway).

I'm not sure this sort of thing can be argued, given the amount of variables.

 

[Oldmanwillow]

suicide because of depression or money problem is murder.

You quoted me, but it had nothing to do with what I said. As far as I'm concerned, suicide is suicide, not murder. But, It's pointless getting bogged down in a bunch of wordplay. If I wanted to kill myself, nobody has any right to try to stop me, as it is not their life. It is mine. That may be hard to swallow, but a spade is a spade. I can choose to end my existence whenever I want.

if you're another person killing a suicidal person,it's murder. imagine yourself as the killer of the suicidal person,and the suicidal person as you. killing yourself is killing,no matter what.

Is killing in itself bad? I am a utilitarian so i believe no action with by it self is good or bad, its only the consequences of an action thats good or bad. So if killing could achieve a greater good then i believe that it is the best course of action.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Or you can get a job flipping burgers as a start, and rent a crappy room, as a start. Not hard.

Ok, now what? You're making minimum wage, have to rent a room, and have to hook up with basic necessities. Next, you probably need a degree or some sort of education; if not, you need better opportunities. You go to an employer and, when they ask what experience you have, you say "Burger flipping." You get rejected. Or, you spend a good ten years trying to build up your resume. I mean, sure, you can have a life, but I'd assume that it wouldn't be the ideal thing (for most people, anyway).

I'm not sure this sort of thing can be argued, given the amount of variables.

It's still better than suicide...takes 4 years to get a degree, most come with graduate programs so theres a job right there. If you get into a trade apprentiship (dependng on age) thats pretty much a guarenteed job.

 

[savandicus]

No matter what happens you can always just go somewhere new and start afresh. And if you cant go somewhere then you can always escape and then go somewhere new and start afresh

 

[CuddlyCombine]

It's still better than suicide...takes 4 years to get a degree, most come with graduate programs so theres a job right there. If you get into a trade apprentiship (dependng on age) thats pretty much a guarenteed job.

What if you don't have any primary/secondary/post-secondary education? How do you get a degree?

 

[Oldmanwillow]

I see it as rational in the form of euthinasia. I mean, if your disease is terminal, and your just going to sit there in a bed for a few months would you rather die shortly or sit there?

Agreed. That is the only solid case for rational suicide I can see.

me too. but um...what about some super duper recovery that saves them? there's always the chance. that small,small,chance that they will be okay. who knows? read Kill Me by Stephen White. not King. White. it will change your soul.

What about the people that dont want to take the one and a million chance that there will be miracle recovery (i know i wouldn't). Shouldn't we allow them to die how they see fit?

 

[jasoncyrus]

It's still better than suicide...takes 4 years to get a degree, most come with graduate programs so theres a job right there. If you get into a trade apprentiship (dependng on age) thats pretty much a guarenteed job.

What if you don't have any primary/secondary/post-secondary education? How do you get a degree?

Night classes, get you GED or higher or whatever, then get into university. Night classes will take anyone.

 

[CuddlyCombine]

Night classes, get you GED or higher or whatever, then get into university. Night classes will take anyone.

There's still the matter of funding, how you'd get into the job... I dunno. I'd be interested in finding out statistics for the rate of impoverished people becoming middle-class in a setting such as New York or LA.

 

[Ashbax]

if you have no proper family/friends who really care about you, and your reason for suicide is good (Your a limbless dood who will live in hospital for the rest of his life not being able to do anything, or your just in a really bad, permenant situation) otherwise dont do it. Also i hate these reports of say, men and women who kill their CHILDREN before comitting suicide. It makes me so mad, becuase these people have no willpower, so they kill their own children and themselves.

 

[insanelich]

Suicidal people can be perfectly rational.

There are situations when the pain never, ever stops, when you'd just be a burden to those around you as well.

There are also situations where killing yourself protects others; an altruistic sacrifice. Can also be perfectly rational.

And I've only read the first page (yet), but wow are there a lot of goddamn morons that say things such as "you could join the army" or "they're too lazy to get their life back on track". How incurably stupid do you have to be to say something like that? Do these people have a chronic inability to extrapolate, a version of Tourette's Syndrome that makes you say stupid things on the internet? What can possibly motivate a person to say something that dumb, other than trolling?

 

[chunkydude84]

Difficult for me to say, but in the end I go with "yes".

Suicide and Depression to a larger extent are supremely rational. As someone who's been there, you don't think in terms of insane thoughts (I kill myself to stop the aliens), you go from one very true premise (I am miserable) to the next step which seems right (there is no path towards not being miserable) to the next (If I remain alive, I will always be miserable) to the obvious conclusion (If I die now, it spares me the pain of living in misery and pain). There are often many steps between, but it can go something like this.
You can't argue with a depressed person, because they will always win it. The problem is a flaw in the logic in one of the steps (in this case "there is no path towards not being miserable")

Suicide is generally rational, and the decision to do it is reached rationally.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

 

[Leorex]

suicide can be rational, it is a solution. the problem is that it is a permanent solution.

 

[AnGeL.SLayer]

I can only see this from a medical standpoint. normal, healthy people do not contemplate suicide. if you are considering it, you honestly have a chemical imbalance. There is no rational or non rational. If a healthy person was talking to someone who was going to commit suicide he wouldnt be able to convince the healthy person that his choice was valid. Now when someone is suffering, from cancer or another painful situation, then I think that is a competely different situation. That is them givig up on their situation, for whatever reason. I still dont condone it but its not my business, its their life so its their choice to make. though suicide is illgeal in America; that really amuses me.


^_^