Poll: Can you defeat yourself

[Ieyke]

Well, let's consider:

More than likely, ruling out dopplegangers, clones, hallucinations, etc, the reason you'd suddenly be facing down a (seemingly older) bearded version of yourself is because your future self went back in time with the intention of mugging you. For whatever reason.

Considering this, if you choose to fight back, we will have one of two scenarios occur.

In one, you will defeat your future self. This will lead to you likely realizing the futility of traveling back in time to mug yourself. Meaning, your future self will never go back. Which leads to a paradox.

In the other, you lose to your future self; who likely walks away gloating about the new found money he took. In this scenario, you may feel a need for revenge. As such, you may end up deciding, at some point in the future, to go back in time and steal the money you lost in your youth. This essentially closes the loop.

In effect, our choices are:

* Win the fight, cause a time paradox
* Lose the fight, allow events to pan out

So...yeah. Losing is really the only option.

Basically, this.
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But, I actually take option C, and simply don't hesitate to give myself my money. The Pan-Chronodimensional Council Of Ieykes have an understanding. We simply cooperate with ourselves because we know that we know what we're doing and there's no reason to question my motives. If future me needs present me's money, then he needs my money. Simple as that.

Beyond borrowing money tho, future and present me are going to have some fun if we ever meet.



To answer the actual question tho, no, I probably couldn't beat future me, because future me would be the one with the element of surprise and a battle plan. I'd just be caught off guard.

 

[DkLnBr]

technically yes, if there is two of me then no matter the outcome "I" will win. However I think that my other self would win, as I'm not much of a fighter (but would that mean that he isn't either?)

 

[Akytalusia]

it's hard to imagine myself in many of the scenarios presented by the forum these last few [periods of time]. they're just not applicable. i would never need to mug myself, therefore this must be an imposter or someone else is pulling the strings.
the most likely scenario is imposter, so i would react as i would if it was anyone else. i would not hand the wallet over. if they want it, they'll have to take it from me. this is the initial analysis. event points forthwith will be managed accordingly.
in the event that it is me, as in the case presented, i would have no way to ascertain this information and would react the same way. subsequent events will be handled by the same processes, though the results will likely be very different.

 

[blueshark217]

I know that I'll immediately go for submissions go for a submission hold so I'll anticipate the lunge and keep my distance with strikes. Unless I predict my predicting of me going for submissions and instead go for kicks and head shots, but I'll predict that, and be prepared to counter myself, but what if I, oh balls now I'm confused.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Since I'm a reasonable person, I try to talk myself down first, see why he's resorted to crime. I'm pretty sure that I would know that I wouldn't want to harm myself, so I think I'd listen to reason and listen to what I have to say.

Failing that, it comes down to when I strike first as I would only strike to incapacitate. Or, perhaps, knowing me, I might just step slowly away because I know me, and I'd be too afraid to make a move to take my wallet.

Not only that, but even if you were in an open field, assuming that he is exactly as fit as you are he will never be able to close the initial distance. Just keep running until either your doppelganger realizes this and goes to mug someone else, or he dies from starvation. Chances are you'll always reach food first, and provided that reaching down to grab food doesn't slow you down enough to close the distance you'll eventually win. Worst case scenario you both die, but at the very least you're guaranteed to take him with you.

I don't know which option to choose, I'm legging it because it's how I can defeat myself. I shall choose option two

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

The martial art I have specialized the most in is Judo, which is very defensively oriented and relies on an opponent attacking you. Since the other me would be on the offensive, I would have a large advantage and should easily be able to defeat myself.

In addition, most everyone should be able to defeat themselves if only they have realized they are fighting themself (assuming the other you has not realized it yet since they are attacking themself).

If you know how you fight, you'll know how the other you fights, while the other you won't have the same advantage. You'll know all your own weaknesses, while the other you doesn't know the same thing. If you have a bum knee, you could kick the other you's bum knee, if you can't see at all without your glasses, you can knock them off the other you etc.

Presumably wouldn't the other you also know that though? He is an identical copy, I assume that would be in mind as well as body

 

[Gottesstrafe]

Hmm, tough answer. I suppose that if it's my future self, I'd just resolve to eat nothing but junk food and stop exercising altogether until I became an obese, wheezing, diabetic wreck sequestered to a Rascal (I'd probably have to ask myself if I was following Terminator or 12 Monkeys rules first though). If it was myself from an alternate universe where everything was its exact opposite, I'd resolve to eat healthier and work out more until the previous result was accomplished again. If the other me was a pod person or alien replicant I could try sneezing on it, hoping that its immune system would fail against Earthborne microbes like in War of the Worlds. If it was a perfect clone trying to replace me and assume my life I'd just let it and leave it footing my college loans. If this were an Evil Me scenario it'd probably be the good me trying to take my wallet back after I rightfully brained him with a bottle not a half hour ago. If it was an Evil Me clone then we'd probably link arms and merrily skip away to cut a swathe of Bonnie and Clyde-inspired bank robberies across the country, with homoerotic undercurrents. If it were a me born from a quantum paradox then I'd have to tell myself another paradox to reset the world without the other me in existence (also applicable to a replicated me generated by a computer AI for the purposes of petty revenge). If it was my doppelganger then I'd just remind myself that I wouldn't be able to mug myself without us touching each other and making the universe implode. If it was a me generated by the Skull of Corruption then I'd just outrun myself for 30 seconds until it was banished back into the aether. If another person were with me when my other self and I were to get in a fight and pull out a gun on us demanding to know who the real "me" was, I'd tell them to shoot both of us as it would be the only way to be sure.

Or of course this could just be a drug and alcohol induced hallucination or fever dream with the real me naked and hip thrusting into a mirror at 3:00 AM wearing nothing but a feather boa and a cigarette holder drooping out of my mouth like Hunter S. Thompson, all the while threatening my mirror image in the voice of the Dwarf in Red from Twin Peaks while agitatedly brandishing a candelabra in my free hand for emphasis.

 

[Wolfhowl the shadow lurker]

Throw the sweet roll in the air and then run away, so that the thugs are looking up and i can get away!

 

[Baldry]

I'd probably just end up convincing myself not to fight...me...We'd get on pretty well and that is when I'd decide to strike at him. Remember kids, ain't nothing wrong with fighting dirty, anyway I have to teach him I am his better so that he doesn't betray me in the future, he's already proven his prone to criminal outbursts so I have to strike him down while I have the upper hand.

 

[Generic4me]

Normally, I would immediately punch anything pretending to be me. But if this thing is me, I would want to do something completely unexpected. Which is what I would do, but if I'm fighting myself, I can't possibly win by fighting like myself, which would be to do unpredictable attacks. So I'd be very predictable. I would never do that, which is why the other me wouldn't know what's going on and lose.

Unless he thinks of this too. Then I'll have to think of something I'd never think of.

 

[Ledan]

Hmm.......
I suppose reasonably discussing the needs of myself and giving myself the money is out of the question?
I'm not much of a fighter, and have low endurance so the fight would be decided after only a few minutes. If I'm doing that charging thing i usually do when I attack, I'm pretty confident that I'd be able to take myself out because that never works.

 

[wulfy42]

The martial art I have specialized the most in is Judo, which is very defensively oriented and relies on an opponent attacking you. Since the other me would be on the offensive, I would have a large advantage and should easily be able to defeat myself.

In addition, most everyone should be able to defeat themselves if only they have realized they are fighting themself (assuming the other you has not realized it yet since they are attacking themself).

If you know how you fight, you'll know how the other you fights, while the other you won't have the same advantage. You'll know all your own weaknesses, while the other you doesn't know the same thing. If you have a bum knee, you could kick the other you's bum knee, if you can't see at all without your glasses, you can knock them off the other you etc.

Presumably wouldn't the other you also know that though? He is an identical copy, I assume that would be in mind as well as body

It's not an exact copy since he's attacking and your defending (not attacking him). In Judo the attacker is at a serious disadvantage so if everything else is equal, the defender will always win.

As far as knowing all the weaknesses etc, that only works if the other you KNOWS everything that you know including that you and he are the same. In that case you would lose the advantage but it makes less sense for the other you to be attacking you and demanding money etc. Perhaps if it was an alternate you that has to kill you and take your place though...that would make sense.

While judo is an extreme case, most forms of combat (that don't involve guns and often even those that do) give an advantage to the person who does not attack first. You allow the other person to attack which leaves them open after you defend or dodge it. IF the other you also knew this..then he or she would never attack first....but according to the OP he or she IS attacking fist..randomly and without using any special items/abmushes etc to take advantage of being the first attacker.

Finally you have the other minor advantage..which is that if both combatants are equal (completely equal) the one with the larger options will usually win. You don't need to win the fight, or kill your other self, you just need to get away, disable him, tire him out etc. He has to keep attacking you...and has to defeat you, you just have to defend, conserve energy and wait till he tires out etc.

If you are both equal in all ways...it's easier to defend then to attack. So the defending you...should be the one who wins.

If I on the other hand had to attack and kill an exact copy of me to take his place, I would simply do it in a way that prevents the other me from ever knowing an attack is coming. A bullet to the brain suddenly from cover. An arrow to the knee and then a sudden attack with a sword etc. The attacker has a huge advantage is the defender doesn't know an attack is coming. Even if you could only use your bare hands, you could walk up to the other you and act like you are there to save him/her and kill your otherself when he goes to sleep at night or lets his/her guard down etc. That is the best way to take yourself out.

 

[doodger]

Assuming the other me is in the same shape as I am and has no weapon, the first to make a move would probably win because I can't see myself standing after getting kicked in the guts by my evil clone. Wow, that's a lot of I, myself, etc

 

[elvor0]

I have no idea. Assuming this is future me, future me already knows how I would fight, and I would expect future me to fight as I would. I already know what my own reactions would be in that situation. We'd most likely end up jabbing each others eyes out with our keys, or ending up headbutting each other as we attempted to do so. Failing a keyshot, I'd go for a knee to the nuts, (in which case, we'd cancel each other out) after which a jab in the throat is in order, so we'd both end up standing there gasping for air. Presumably if this is future me, I'd recover my breath slightly quicker due to less damage from smoking.

So going through that I /might/ be able to beat myself, but I find it very likely that it would be a laughable stalemate.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Presumably wouldn't the other you also know that though? He is an identical copy, I assume that would be in mind as well as body

It's not an exact copy since he's attacking and your defending (not attacking him). In Judo the attacker is at a serious disadvantage so if everything else is equal, the defender will always win.

As far as knowing all the weaknesses etc, that only works if the other you KNOWS everything that you know including that you and he are the same. In that case you would lose the advantage but it makes less sense for the other you to be attacking you and demanding money etc. Perhaps if it was an alternate you that has to kill you and take your place though...that would make sense.

While judo is an extreme case, most forms of combat (that don't involve guns and often even those that do) give an advantage to the person who does not attack first. You allow the other person to attack which leaves them open after you defend or dodge it. IF the other you also knew this..then he or she would never attack first....but according to the OP he or she IS attacking fist..randomly and without using any special items/abmushes etc to take advantage of being the first attacker.

Finally you have the other minor advantage..which is that if both combatants are equal (completely equal) the one with the larger options will usually win. You don't need to win the fight, or kill your other self, you just need to get away, disable him, tire him out etc. He has to keep attacking you...and has to defeat you, you just have to defend, conserve energy and wait till he tires out etc.

If you are both equal in all ways...it's easier to defend then to attack. So the defending you...should be the one who wins.

If I on the other hand had to attack and kill an exact copy of me to take his place, I would simply do it in a way that prevents the other me from ever knowing an attack is coming. A bullet to the brain suddenly from cover. An arrow to the knee and then a sudden attack with a sword etc. The attacker has a huge advantage is the defender doesn't know an attack is coming. Even if you could only use your bare hands, you could walk up to the other you and act like you are there to save him/her and kill your otherself when he goes to sleep at night or lets his/her guard down etc. That is the best way to take yourself out.

I agree with just about all of that. The only way to take defeat yourself is to exploit whatever difference there is between you two. I briefly considered a strategy involving trying to grab his beard before I reconciled with how ineffective that'd be

 

[Ham Blitz]

Well, let's consider:

More than likely, ruling out dopplegangers, clones, hallucinations, etc, the reason you'd suddenly be facing down a (seemingly older) bearded version of yourself is because your future self went back in time with the intention of mugging you. For whatever reason.

Considering this, if you choose to fight back, we will have one of two scenarios occur.

In one, you will defeat your future self. This will lead to you likely realizing the futility of traveling back in time to mug yourself. Meaning, your future self will never go back. Which leads to a paradox.

In the other, you lose to your future self; who likely walks away gloating about the new found money he took. In this scenario, you may feel a need for revenge. As such, you may end up deciding, at some point in the future, to go back in time and steal the money you lost in your youth. This essentially closes the loop.

In effect, our choices are:

* Win the fight, cause a time paradox
* Lose the fight, allow events to pan out

So...yeah. Losing is really the only option.

I am not sure if this has been said yet and I don't feel like reading through all the posts. Anyway:
Could it not be possible that the future self needed money because he successfully robbed you, thus when you get the point in the future where you are him, you need money, thus you go back and rob yourself... and then the cycle continues.
Moderately short story shorter, you go back in time to rob yourself for money because you are low on money ever since you robbed yourself back in time.

 

[Vigormortis]

I am not sure if this has been said yet and I don't feel like reading through all the posts. Anyway:
Could it not be possible that the future self needed money because he successfully robbed you, thus when you get the point in the future where you are him, you need money, thus you go back and rob yourself... and then the cycle continues.
Moderately short story shorter, you go back in time to rob yourself for money because you are low on money ever since you robbed yourself back in time.

That's...essentially what my second scenario was? The one in which you lose to your future self. Maybe not exactly the same, but effectively similar.

Are you asking if that's what I meant or are you proposing a different scenario?

If the latter, I'd love to hear it. I actually like pondering on these sorts of topics.

 

[Amaury_games]

Me and me both know what we'd do if we got the chance to be different persons: Play Tetris Attack all-out on SNES and see who wins. Our battle will be legendary! At least for me. i wish I knew people that could make chains, combos and come up with strategies with the different colored blocks.
And I'd also like to know how he grew that beard (I saw someone here that also has gaps; you have my sympathy, man).
But myself should already know... I don't give my money easily (except to people with guns). If he's not armed, then we got ourselves a good fight coming up. > We would also do it... FOR SCIENCE!
So the order of events would be: Epic doppelganger battle > He tells me how he got beard all over the face > Epic Tetris Attack battle > use the final results to settle who will work and who plays games each week/month/year > he will have to find another girlfriend, since that could easily go terribly wrong.

 

[Ham Blitz]

I am not sure if this has been said yet and I don't feel like reading through all the posts. Anyway:
Could it not be possible that the future self needed money because he successfully robbed you, thus when you get the point in the future where you are him, you need money, thus you go back and rob yourself... and then the cycle continues.
Moderately short story shorter, you go back in time to rob yourself for money because you are low on money ever since you robbed yourself back in time.

That's...essentially what my second scenario was? The one in which you lose to your future self.

Are you asking if that's what I meant or are you proposing a different scenario?

If the latter, I'd love to hear it. I actually like pondering on these sorts of topics.

No, your right, I realized I misread the post, sorry about that.
Though, in the spirit of trying to keep a talk going since you like the topic, it could be possible that after defeating yourself from the future, you could come to the realization that in the future, something will happen that will cause you to be so desperate for money that you consider robbing yourself in the past to be a viable option, thus you go in to training to get better. When the time comes that for some reason you think robbing yourself is the best option, you have trained yourself to be better at fighting. Fully confident that your training has prepared you, you go back, fully bearded, ready to go, only to unfortunately get defeated by your past self.
I know that is a stretch, but it is possible.
Then again, I guess that depends on how you view defeating your future self in the first place. I gave it a shot.

 

[Ljs1121]

The two of us will be exact equals both mentally and physically. If neither of us is armed, a fight will last for eternity.

Since I don't want to be locked in an infinite loop, I'd probably just run.