Poll: Capitalism or Communism?
- Thread starter Jak23
- Start date
Recommended Videos
State communism is Totalitarian(USSR,N.Korea,China)hopefully I don't have to explain why that's bad.
State Socialism enslaves the citizens to the debts of their governments(EU,USA,a few developing nations) not to mention that socialism for the people always winds up being socialism for the rich and connected. because after all, the wealth that makes the socialism possible is created in the private sector through financing, production and labor so corruption is inevitable.
fact: market economies provide more for people than command economies.
fact: free nations always achieve better standards of living than nations under tyranny.
fact: economic freedom correlates with economic security and growth because they are directly related.
So, if you now understand that all options that lead towards economies of command need to be moved off the table, we can actually work towards something reasonable and voluntary instead of superstitious and coercive.
State Socialism enslaves the citizens to the debts of their governments(EU,USA,a few developing nations) not to mention that socialism for the people always winds up being socialism for the rich and connected. because after all, the wealth that makes the socialism possible is created in the private sector through financing, production and labor so corruption is inevitable.
fact: market economies provide more for people than command economies.
fact: free nations always achieve better standards of living than nations under tyranny.
fact: economic freedom correlates with economic security and growth because they are directly related.
So, if you now understand that all options that lead towards economies of command need to be moved off the table, we can actually work towards something reasonable and voluntary instead of superstitious and coercive.
In Communism, if one person gets lazy, the system crumbles.
In Capitalism, if one person gets greedy, the system crumbles.
In Capitalism, if one person gets greedy, the system crumbles.
Well, McDonalds is cheaper than cooking, so, it happens.psijac said:
Surely that's because they spent all their money on nukes and luxuries for their leaders, no?Buchholz101 said:
Communism has been tried and tried and it doesn't work while capitalism has worked and lasted through out the ages
Cuba is doing fantastically at the moment. I've been there. Thriving and young tourism industry, combined with teade agreements with Canadia and whatever is left of the EU.Blablahb said:
And it seems the North Korea can still afford to throw a pretend nuclear missle into the japanese sea once a year.
And last time i listened to the BBC, China isnt too bad either, in terms of economics.
Merely speculative, as i suspect many a person is thinking the R word...
Ends in ussia.
I voted capitalism only because a communist state will immediately turn into a dictatorship. A capitalist state takes time to turn into an oligarchy.
"Capitalism sucks, but it is better than anything else we have right now." - TheGodofEntropy
Bioshock quote for those who don't get it. Look it up. I'm serious. NOW!!! (I'm talking about the picture.)
"Capitalism sucks, but it is better than anything else we have right now." - TheGodofEntropy
Bioshock quote for those who don't get it. Look it up. I'm serious. NOW!!! (I'm talking about the picture.)
Communism doesn't work not, because that goes against human nature. Basically "sharin' and carin'" is nice and dandy, but as long as there are assholes in our world this won't work.
Capitalism is just the best option we have at the moment. It not "good" but "not as bad as..".
And with certain regulations it could actually work.
Social market economy is the way to go in my opinion.
Capitalism is just the best option we have at the moment. It not "good" but "not as bad as..".
And with certain regulations it could actually work.
Social market economy is the way to go in my opinion.
You need to elaborate on these figures. Which countries are these? Which countries have the most poverty related deaths?oktalist said:
That's a terribly backwards way of describing 'the lower class'. Here in America, I can find a part-time job, work for a day, and now have enough money to feed myself for as much as four days.oktalist said:
If I work consistently, I can afford shelter, running water, whatever food I want to eat, a car, a cell-phone, a refrigerator, a TV with cable and a laptop, with a low paying job. Used to be, you had to sweat your ass off twelve hours a day just to barely have a decent meal. I don't know how comfy it is in your country, but however good it is, it's all capitalism's fault.
You look at the homeless people in America (or your own country, whatever) and think 'you know what we need to do? We should make everybody as dirt poor as that.'
"In communism, there are no "people in charge"."
Really? Explain.
It's spelled 'honor' dude. I'll accept your country's habit of putting 'u's in words all the time when you accept your country's decline caused by socialism and its failed healthcare system.oktalist said:
"That's capitalism. Person B is the capitalist class."
The 'capitalist class'? For someone who keeps going 'You don't know what socialism IS; and you never read a word of Marx.' you sure do have a lot of incorrect ideas about how capitalism works. But of course, that's a given, because anybody who thinks as lowly of it as you has to not actually understand it.
Okay, I have to give you that point. I admit, while capitalism does 'spread the wealth' better than any other means; while it does make the rich richer and the poor richer at the same time, it doesn't really make the world a better place. With only a few rare exceptions, like...oktalist said:
Telephones
Television
Cars
Planes
Computers
The internet
Light bulbs
Fucking electricity
Yeah so I have to hand it to you that capitalism has only completely changed the world for the better about eight times in the last hundred-and-twenty years or so. I'm sure this imaginary dream country with 'perfect communism' you have in your head would do much better!
For those of you saying that communism hasn't exactly had a stellar record in history, I have this to say: The socities of the USSR and China were totalitarian dictatorships, not Marxist communistic ones. The scale of the error being made when saying that communism doesn't work and the Soviet Union is a fine example of why it doesn't, is vast.
I think that the best possible solution is a blend of the two, government control (and things like mandated healthcare and relatively high taxes so that a welfare state can be upheld) and limited corporate freedom. Both socialism and capitalism are needed (though I would argue that socialism should outweigh capitalism in this utopian vision of mine).
Also, if you want prime examples of socialism done well in a modern country, take a look at today's Venezuela or perhaps even Finland.
I think that the best possible solution is a blend of the two, government control (and things like mandated healthcare and relatively high taxes so that a welfare state can be upheld) and limited corporate freedom. Both socialism and capitalism are needed (though I would argue that socialism should outweigh capitalism in this utopian vision of mine).
Also, if you want prime examples of socialism done well in a modern country, take a look at today's Venezuela or perhaps even Finland.
Actually Cuba is looking to tone down the socialist portions of the government because they can't continue to provide the level of healthcare they are right now. There are many sources out there and none of them sum up everything, but this is a pretty good one.Me55enger said:
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-03-27/news/29432617_1_trade-embargo-and-travel-cuban-government-raul-castro-s-cuba
Because the people of North Korea are starving. Father was stationed in South Korea for 2 years and...
http://news.yahoo.com/beyond-propaganda-north-koreans-quietly-starving-020029191.html
China is booming fast and the workers are still getting paid next to nothing. However, it is all in the statistics. If you look at economic growth China is doing awesome. They are winning hands down. If you look at current economic levels you will see that China does not have the economic infrastructure to sustain this level of production long term. Just remember there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
http://www.eurojournals.com/IRJFE_69_02.pdf
It helped that my stats professor actually wrote this paper so she was able to explain it in great detail. The section you want to look at in on page 4 in adobe and page 22 in the paper. The bar graph (left) shows that China meets the requirements to have what we would consider a 1st world economy, but then it shows (center) that the infrastructure will not allow for that level of sustained economy. Those are things like roads, telecommunications, electricity, ect. Then it shows (right) that China will be primarily a manufacturing state if anything because new things are not being developed there.
Do you mean the U.S.S.R.?
Or Russia?
Wait, so Britain is socialist? And a healthcare system that doesn't force people into bankruptcy is failed? I'm not sure what you're getting at behind all this vitriol.UltraHammer said:
This is based on Marx's idea that any employment of people by owners of capital (factories, money for investment etc) is exploitive, because by definition the workers are paid less than the value of their work as some is siphoned off as profit by the capitalist class. His wording here is kinda weird, I'll admit.
The problem is is that capitalism as we have it today (or corporatism as people like to call it) makes the rich disproportionately richer than the poor. I love this graph:
Communism.Jak23 said:
Why?
better equallity and treatment
and if you notice when they go corrupt people DO stuff about it
when capatalism goes corrupt people are too busy freaking out about a fake rumor that facebook is charging $10/month instead of noticing the MASSIVE problem where 1% of the people living in the country own over 90% of the money
then when they finally do wise up
they protest and makes jokes about it
I want things to get done people, and as anti-violence as I tend to be, stuff like this NEEDS to stop and be fixed, and sitting on your butts asking them to "please stop screwing us over" won't do $#!%
we have them out-numbered 100 to 1 if we could stop being such idiots we could have started and ended a revolution by now
...or get stopped by the supporters of the G.reat O.bese P.arasite that're too stupid to notice how hard we've been boned...
any before anyone turns this around and yells at me "well what have you done!"
the answer
nothing
why?
they know I'm up to stuff and the cops will stop me for ANNNNNYYYYYTHINNNNNNNGGGG
example - being detained for carrying an umbrella because from really far away a legally blind war vet thought it was an assault rifle because it was black and had a strap
...no I'm not kidding
america is THAT f*cked up
EDIT: I only picked communism because socialism isn't an option, in large societies an extreme direction (left OR right) is never really a good idea.
Half and Half
If you work hard you should be rewarded, but if you can't work you should still have some.
One bad thing about communism is that everyone gets the same stuff. everyone gets the same TV and there is no competition, so there will not be invented new stuff. Also, if you work hard you still get the same as everyone else, so there is no point (except honer) to be working hard. So everyone will be a poor because there is no reason to make a difference
On the other hand capitalism will make them who invents new stuff and works hard very rich, but those who can't or don't very poor. With communism everything is shared so no one will work hard, because of that everyone will be a bit poor.
If it is half and half it is pretty much capitalism but if you don't work hard to get a big slice of the cake, you still get cake and there will be a reason to make new types of cakes because you will be rewarded with more cake
Sorry for bad English, i'm from Denmark
If you work hard you should be rewarded, but if you can't work you should still have some.
One bad thing about communism is that everyone gets the same stuff. everyone gets the same TV and there is no competition, so there will not be invented new stuff. Also, if you work hard you still get the same as everyone else, so there is no point (except honer) to be working hard. So everyone will be a poor because there is no reason to make a difference
On the other hand capitalism will make them who invents new stuff and works hard very rich, but those who can't or don't very poor. With communism everything is shared so no one will work hard, because of that everyone will be a bit poor.
If it is half and half it is pretty much capitalism but if you don't work hard to get a big slice of the cake, you still get cake and there will be a reason to make new types of cakes because you will be rewarded with more cake
Sorry for bad English, i'm from Denmark
Adam Smith would roll over in his grave if he could see what capitalism has become, in fact he probably already has. If Karl Marx could see what communism became, he'd do the same thing. Neither system is how its founders had wanted it to be. Communism was meant to be an extreme leftist ideal, where all people shared ownership of the industry and government, and had all they would need to survive. Capitalism was meant to be a way for a person to live for themselves, to work to support their own family, and to compete for profit. When Communism has been practiced however, it quickly turns into a fascist authoritarian government, the very thing that Communists are sworn to oppose, just look at Stalinism for example. Capitalism has become a sort of modern feudalism, where a CEO holds the majority of the wealth while their employees work for meagre, but not necessarily very small shares. Capitalism is the lesser of two evils in the modern world I believe, but the whole idea of a "trickle down" economy has failed. Capitalism is dying, and Communism has been warped by human nature. There really is no good system to be put into place, because no matter what we'll just fuck it up.
Capitalism. I mean regulated Capitalism not the "Free market is always right" Capitalism. I won't work as hard if it does not effect my reward. I know many others who share this philosophy so I know I'm not alone. Communism would be great if we were all hard-working, for the community types, but people generally aren't that type. Besides, we would have to many artist and singers and not enough laborers unless we forced people to do a job, and then we'd have a bunch of unhappy people.
TL;DR: Communism sounds nice but doesn't work in practice.
TL;DR: Communism sounds nice but doesn't work in practice.
But why is this? Is this an inherent part of human nature? Or is it something that humans learn from being raised in a capitalist environment? Out of all the criticisms of communism this is one that just boggles me. Okay, even if we accept that people are inherently greedy (which I don't) and we accept that being massively greedy is bad, then surely we want a society that attempts to counteract this, not one that majorly encourages it.AnyNamePlease said:
And this just makes no sense. Why would there be too many artists and singers? Why would we need a massive workforce of labourers? Under communism we wouldn't have the modern world's incredibly self-destructive obsession with growth as an end in itself.
You obviously haven't done much research into what communism is, no offense. Or economics in general if you think it's a binary scale.Jak23 said:
Libertarian socialist here, so neither. Worker owned means of production with necessary products nationalized.