Poll: Captain America: Civil War -- Choose your side!
- Thread starter mduncan50
- Start date
BASED ON REAL WORLD CIRCUMSTANCES AND LOGIC
Iron Man. The metrics involved with "super heroes" and the potential catastrophes they could unleash at a whim virtually SCREAMS for some kind of oversight/regulation. Almost every super hero film in the MCU involves some kind of brawl in a public area with screaming/menaced civilians. The heroes themselves regularly go rogue, to say nothing of the villains. How do you NOT make an effort to regulate that? It's insanity.
BASED ON THE MCU TO DATE
Captain America. Perhaps the single largest scale threat outside of the alien invasion was SHIELD itself. There seems to be rampant corruption in every organizational body, and the death counts from these massive hero brawls are SHOCKINGLY low.
BASED ON THE FACT CIVIL WAR IS ACTUALLY THE THIRD CAPTAIN AMERICA FILM
Definitely Captain America. Like the dude is going to be on the wrong side of things in his own film.
Iron Man. The metrics involved with "super heroes" and the potential catastrophes they could unleash at a whim virtually SCREAMS for some kind of oversight/regulation. Almost every super hero film in the MCU involves some kind of brawl in a public area with screaming/menaced civilians. The heroes themselves regularly go rogue, to say nothing of the villains. How do you NOT make an effort to regulate that? It's insanity.
BASED ON THE MCU TO DATE
Captain America. Perhaps the single largest scale threat outside of the alien invasion was SHIELD itself. There seems to be rampant corruption in every organizational body, and the death counts from these massive hero brawls are SHOCKINGLY low.
BASED ON THE FACT CIVIL WAR IS ACTUALLY THE THIRD CAPTAIN AMERICA FILM
Definitely Captain America. Like the dude is going to be on the wrong side of things in his own film.
If it were just a registry for people with powers who wanted to fight crime then sure. Same as I want Police to be vetted. But as mentioned in the OP it's more of a thing that crosses the line where life and liberty are concerned.
the movies are good but the conflict feels less logical every timeundeadsuitor said:
Avengrs: everyone knows that Loke is A: dangerous and in possesion of an item more powerful than any weapon created by humanity and B: a master of deception, but fair enough they had just met and all
Age of ultron: they all have experience with mind control to some extent and their enemies are known to take advantage of it. they have been working together for some time and know that the infinity stones are not something they should keep near anyone who might want to use them be it for good or bad. they still fight
Civil war: by this point i'm surprised nobody just steps up and says "has anyone else noticed that every time we fight over an issue of global safety it turns out to be our enemies manipulating us? maybe we should try not to fall for that again?"
Sounds unrealistic at first and yet every time my buddy goes to Ikea with his wife I somehow still end up with him on my couch for a couple nights...CyanCat47 said:
The backdrop for Civil War will be an even more realistic reason to fight one another if they follow the comics at all.
So, I'm curious. Let's say that what the government isn't "work for us or go to jail", but rather just "if you don't work for us, you cannot use your powers". And let's say that although Steve Rogers while unwilling to be a government tool, he accepts the law, and gives his word to not use his powers, and we know that Steve being a man of his word, would hold up his end of the agreement. So that means a woman could be getting raped ten feet to his left, and to his right a child is being beaten to death, and he would be powerless to help them, because that would be a use of his enhanced strength, speed and athleticism. How has this made the world a safer place? I can't stand the slogan of "Outlaw guns and the only people with guns will be outlaws", but I can't help but think of that here. You're not going to cut down on the amount of super powered villains, just the amount of good guys out there to stop them.
Steve doesn't have powers. So he can do whatever he wants. Technically he's just peak human.mduncan50 said:
But yes, this does present the question about what to do about being a good Samaritan. I think the intention is similar to like being a police officer. If you're going to go around guns a-blazing and stopping crime then you need to be a known person and trained. If you're in a grocery store and stop a robber then you're just being a good citizen.
But I think the Civil War scenario is that you have to register regardless.
Are we talking about the same Captain America that can outrun cars, hurdle 7 foot tall fences without touching them, and punch in the window of a personal submarine that is designed to withstand the pressure of the ocean depths? And that's all just in one scene! There are lots of other examples in the movies, and that doesn't even get into his enhanced mind which is much harder to show visually, but it's what makes him such a good leader and strategist.Lightknight said:
there are certain people in this world who simply make shopping a living nightmare. when i shop with my mum she can't stop finding new things for me to try on. it actully got to the point where we just kind of silently agreed "if i have said i need something and it looks alright just buy it and if one of us doesn't like it the other can take it. we wear the same size and your office is next to the mall so i can never stop you from getting it anyways"Lightknight said:
I have some serious issues with both characters and the sides they take on Civil Wars, both on paper and on film (although I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't argue with their logic).
Tony Stark made a big point in Iron Man 2 about the lack of government control and regulation to his activities, he is also someone that has proven to feel zero accountability for his actions and acts like an egotistical bastard on every occasion, so for him to go all the way to government controlled super patrols or they are outlaws to be put down felt like an unearned 180 to me.
Captain America in the comics was not much better. He is the de facto "good guy", and I don't expect him to change since his name is in the title of this movie, but in the comics he was more like an obtuse and headstrong individual, whose only justification seems to be "I don't want things to change because they have always been this way, and we are the good guys." The other side has some decent points, but he won't listen because every concession is a display of weakness, or something. It goes to a point where Tony Stark tries to talk him out of it (before there was really any conflict between them), and his answer is to disable Stark's suit so he can punch him in the face... he is not only the one that goes through all this to defend some status quo, but he is also the one that shoots first.
Tony Stark made a big point in Iron Man 2 about the lack of government control and regulation to his activities, he is also someone that has proven to feel zero accountability for his actions and acts like an egotistical bastard on every occasion, so for him to go all the way to government controlled super patrols or they are outlaws to be put down felt like an unearned 180 to me.
Captain America in the comics was not much better. He is the de facto "good guy", and I don't expect him to change since his name is in the title of this movie, but in the comics he was more like an obtuse and headstrong individual, whose only justification seems to be "I don't want things to change because they have always been this way, and we are the good guys." The other side has some decent points, but he won't listen because every concession is a display of weakness, or something. It goes to a point where Tony Stark tries to talk him out of it (before there was really any conflict between them), and his answer is to disable Stark's suit so he can punch him in the face... he is not only the one that goes through all this to defend some status quo, but he is also the one that shoots first.
I kind of agree with you. The only reason to be on Cap's side in the comic Civil War is because the Pro-Reg side were being complete dicks. Team Cap was just... there.hermes200 said:
It's not so much a 180 as it is Ultron being the straw that broke the iron camel's back. By doing his own thing and telling government oversight where it can stick itself, Tony created something that would have wiped out the world, and ended up "only" killing hundreds. He wants to still help people, but he wants neither the responsibility nor the guilt that goes with it. And of course, with Tony's ego being what it is, if HE can't handle it without oversight, then nobody can.hermes200 said:
I submit that if you ever find yourself in the position of being punched by Steve Rogers, you're the bad guy... so cap all the way.
Think I'm rooting for Team Iron Man. As he says about Cap; "Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth".
Maybe it's not fair for people with powers to have tabs kept on them, but you know what's even worse? For people with no means of defending themselves to be caught in the crossfire. Also I feel much more sympathetic to Tony given the trailers... killing Rhodes (by the looks of it), Cap and Bucky ganging up on him 2 v 1... it's hard for me to look at Cap and think "What a hero".
Maybe the movie itself will change my mind when I see it all happen, who knows. For now I'm Team Iron Man.
Maybe it's not fair for people with powers to have tabs kept on them, but you know what's even worse? For people with no means of defending themselves to be caught in the crossfire. Also I feel much more sympathetic to Tony given the trailers... killing Rhodes (by the looks of it), Cap and Bucky ganging up on him 2 v 1... it's hard for me to look at Cap and think "What a hero".
Maybe the movie itself will change my mind when I see it all happen, who knows. For now I'm Team Iron Man.
Comic: 100% Cap's side
Movie: Wait and see
I'll admit that I like the idea of heroes being accountable for the things they do, but that doesn't mean I like the idea of every powered individual in the country forced to be on the government's payroll. Especially Psychics. The way they went about it in the comics was so damn vile that I couldn't support them even if I wanted to. They attacked Cap! That's the first thing they did! Captain America didn't ask for the fight, Hill and Stark did.
And then there's the fact that, instead of watching and arresting these powered individuals if they break the law, they decide that everyone either joins or goes to jail. The only way this would be like Gun Control is if gun owners were forced to join the army if they wanted a gun. Hell, in most cases these heroes got their powers accidentally. Spider-Man didn't ask for that spider to bite him, after all. The type of discrimination the SHRA asked for was terrible.
The film seems to be giving the pro-registration side a much better cause for their actions. A better reason for them to fight one another. So I'll have to wait and see.
Movie: Wait and see
I'll admit that I like the idea of heroes being accountable for the things they do, but that doesn't mean I like the idea of every powered individual in the country forced to be on the government's payroll. Especially Psychics. The way they went about it in the comics was so damn vile that I couldn't support them even if I wanted to. They attacked Cap! That's the first thing they did! Captain America didn't ask for the fight, Hill and Stark did.
And then there's the fact that, instead of watching and arresting these powered individuals if they break the law, they decide that everyone either joins or goes to jail. The only way this would be like Gun Control is if gun owners were forced to join the army if they wanted a gun. Hell, in most cases these heroes got their powers accidentally. Spider-Man didn't ask for that spider to bite him, after all. The type of discrimination the SHRA asked for was terrible.
The film seems to be giving the pro-registration side a much better cause for their actions. A better reason for them to fight one another. So I'll have to wait and see.