Poll: Circumcision - What is your opinion?

[stueymon]

I live in the UK where circumcision is not as massively prevalent in the states, I personally am not circumcised, I dont know about my friends, it's not really a discussion that comes up! heh!

Why is it so common in the states? It seems abnormal to americans to not be circumcised. honestly I think it should be an adults choice, but that said, I've never thought about losing any more of what little I have

although one thing i've been curious about and never really had the chance to ask, are you supposed to be able to pull it down when erect? I know I cant :S

On female circumcision?... what exactly does that involve? because I know in africa the clitoris is sometimes removed and that is just wrong. but aside from that? if you want to do something to yourself, go for it! I wont blame you.

*side note* I've seen images of a bifurcated penis... now THAT is fucked up..

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

On female circumcision?... what exactly does that involve? because I know in africa the clitoris is sometimes removed and that is just wrong. but aside from that? if you want to do something to yourself, go for it! I wont blame you.

Depends on where it's taking place. Sometimes part of the clitoris is severed, sometimes all of it is removed and sometimes the labia (lips) are severed too. Its sort of equivilent to the process of making a male into a Eunuch. Its intent is, depending on location, either to prohibit female masturbation (still taboo), make sex only about child bearing for the woman, make the woman easier to control (never understood that one but it is a possible reason women have it done to them) or for religious or cultural reasons.

 

[Varya]

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I never said it would outright traumatize you, I said it could.

Also, your subconscious mind is largely out of your perception and control, that's why it called SUBconscious . It's quite possible for something to greatly effected your subconscious mind when you don't even remember it.

If I asked you, why is X your favorite food, why do you like the color X, could you come up with a thorough description of what goes on in your mind when you experienced said thing?

I still don't see your point. As far as I can tell your talking about insignificant differences. So what if my favorite color is green instead of red, or if I play the drums but not the piano. I still live a healthy life.

I will say this, yes your subconscious can file away things that memory can't. I apparently almost drowned as a baby, and might be why I never learned how to swim. However, not having a flap of at the end of my penis has no baring on me at all, even if it could grow back I wouldn't want it to. The idea of it just sounds gross to me.

It matters not because of what happened to you per se, but what could happen. A child should not be deprived of a choice, exposed to a risk, go through pain, (no, not even if the child wont remember) for a procedure with no proven benefits and several proven risks.

What do you mean no proven benefits? I copy/pasted this form a medical journal.

Spoiler

Are there benefits from circumcision?

There are several:

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)

A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.

5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.

6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.

8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.

I hope this was informative. I know there are risks but don't say there are no benefits or else they wouldn't do it.

I think this is where we hit a dead end, from what I've heard and read, most of that data has been proven wrong or inconclusive. The part about infection I know is wrong, circumcision removes the protective foreskin thereby increasing the risk. The part about the cancer was also wrong, it was shown that most subjects that were circumcised were Jews, and that it was in fact their cultural look on cleanliness that was the reason for the results, not the circumcision. Also, if someone does a procedure like this on a child for cosmetic reasons, I truly think that they are doing something awful. I have nothing against cosmetic surgery, but it should be a choice made by the one who gets the operation not by a parent. I have no desire to find my sources and translate them from Swedish, so I don't expect you to believe me but there it is.

 

[Lexodus]

Amazingly enough, I don't have some desperate longing for the foreskin I never knew. I don't cry at night, holding pictures of it in my arms (like some of these guys who are against it are trying to make it seem), and I function perfectly well. Male circumcision is fine, particularly at a young age because it doesn't bother the baby and, if the bullshit pleasure statistic is correct, they won't know any different. Religion is an odd reason to do it, but by all means do- you say god doesn't like it (although that leads me to wonder why he created it then), I say, think whatever the fuck you like, you're giving this kid a couple of things less to worry about.
Also, uncircumcised shlongs look horrible to both other guys and a lot of girls. Also, rippage, etc. *shudder*

Female circumcision is a whole other story. That IS just mutilation, effectively the equivalent of castration. There is no reason for it at all and it is fucking disgusting.

 

[theonlyblaze2]

I was circumcised and it never really bothered me. I guess it should be up to the person or the person's parent, depending on age. It's not like your parents haven't done worse.

 

[Kuilui]

I was circumcised when I was a baby. I have no idea why. That whole loss of some sensation thing seems like a good deal though honestly if it is true.

 

[Sneeze]

I think circumcision is a frankly barbaric practice to force on babies. If a grown male wants to do it for health (in the case of something like a paraphimosis), convenience and/or cosmetic reasons, fine by me, thats up to him and him alone, but forcing it on children? It's bullshit if you ask me.

The cleanliness argument can be solved by just pulling back and rinsing when you have a bath or shower - simple.

From what I've heard there is no concrete evidence that it prevents disease or infection as many studies have turned up different results, some say it decreases, some say it has no effect, others say it decreases.

Last longer during sex? Sure but its less pleasurable for BOTH parties. Seem like a fair trade?

Arguing its a redundant organ like the appendix, lets for one second say it is? Do you remove the appendix of all new borns? No, you only do it when needed (ie. appendicitis) , apply the same to the foreskin, only remove it when there's a case of phimosis. Sorted.

Cosmetic reasons? A little subjective to start, no? It's only the preferred in countries that practice it because its the norm, it's a complete catch-22 really.

Oh, and lets not forget, its fucking painful. Its a fucking scalpel to your DICK.

And for what it's worth, being in the UK I'm uncut, and glad about it. Not a decision I'd have wanted my parents making on my behalf.

 

[Lexodus]

I live in the UK where circumcision is not as massively prevalent in the states, I personally am not circumcised, I dont know about my friends, it's not really a discussion that comes up! heh!

Why is it so common in the states? It seems abnormal to americans to not be circumcised. honestly I think it should be an adults choice, but that said, I've never thought about losing any more of what little I have

although one thing i've been curious about and never really had the chance to ask, are you supposed to be able to pull it down when erect? I know I cant :S

Dude, I think you SHOULD get circumcised. Your foreskin sounds to be either non-retractable, which some are, or too tight, which could mean problems.
Besides, you won't lose any length, just a flap of skin over what you already have.

 

[Lexodus]

I think circumcision is a frankly barbaric practice to force on babies. If a grown male wants to do it for health (in the case of something like a paraphimosis), convenience and/or cosmetic reasons, fine by me, thats up to him and him alone, but forcing it on children? It's bullshit if you ask me.

The cleanliness argument can be solved by just pulling back and rinsing when you have a bath or shower - simple.

From what I've heard there is no concrete evidence that it prevents disease or infection as many studies have turned up different results, some say it decreases, some say it has no effect, others say it decreases.

Last longer during sex? Sure but its less pleasurable for BOTH parties. Seem like a fair trade?

Arguing its a redundant organ like the appendix, lets for one second say it is? Do you remove the appendix of all new borns? No, you only do it when needed (ie. appendicitis) , apply the same to the foreskin, only remove it when there's a case of phimosis. Sorted.

Cosmetic reasons? A little subjective to start, no? It's only the preferred in countries that practice it because its the norm, it's a complete catch-22 really.

Oh, and lets not forget, its fucking painful. Its a fucking scalpel to your DICK.

As a baby you don't feel it, and trust me, it really isn't 'less pleasurable for BOTH parties'. Where are you even getting that from? It's not even less pleasurable for ONE party, especially if you don't have anything to compare it to.
And I'm in the UK too, I know it's not exactly the norm yet but I have no issues with being circumcised.

 

[Ultrajoe]

I hope this was informative. I know there are risks but don't say there are no benefits or else they wouldn't do it.

Circumcision may well provide health benefits, however...

'if it didn't help they wouldn't do it' is all well and good until you add human nature into the mix. We've been doing things with no benefit for thousands, tens of thousands, of years... just because we think it helps; Torture, Witch-burning, Blood Draining, Sacrifice, Buying Better Audio Cables, Lite Salt, Repairative Therapy, Shock Therapy, Hybrid Cars, Eugenics, Scientology Auditing, UN Sanctions, Affirmative Action, No Child Left Behind, Stolen Generation, Prayer.

People will consistently do stupid things for no good reason, the belief otherwise is not a good supporting argument.

 

[nothinghere]

I think circumcision is a frankly barbaric practice to force on babies. If a grown male wants to do it for health (in the case of something like a paraphimosis), convenience and/or cosmetic reasons, fine by me, thats up to him and him alone, but forcing it on children? It's bullshit if you ask me.

The cleanliness argument can be solved by just pulling back and rinsing when you have a bath or shower - simple.

From what I've heard there is no concrete evidence that it prevents disease or infection as many studies have turned up different results, some say it decreases, some say it has no effect, others say it decreases.

Last longer during sex? Sure but its less pleasurable for BOTH parties. Seem like a fair trade?

Arguing its a redundant organ like the appendix, lets for one second say it is? Do you remove the appendix of all new borns? No, you only do it when needed (ie. appendicitis) , apply the same to the foreskin, only remove it when there's a case of phimosis. Sorted.

Cosmetic reasons? A little subjective to start, no? It's only the preferred in countries that practice it because its the norm, it's a complete catch-22 really.

Oh, and lets not forget, its fucking painful. Its a fucking scalpel to your DICK.

As a baby you don't feel it, and trust me, it really isn't 'less pleasurable for BOTH parties'. Where are you even getting that from? It's not even less pleasurable for ONE party, especially if you don't have anything to compare it to.

what do you mean as a baby you don't even feel it!? Babies don't have a lack of feeling you know, just because your forgot about it doesn't me it never happened. My nephew is crying and screaming because of it, i'm sure he can't feel a thing at all.

 

[Allan53]

Sure, because different cultures with ideas different to yours are ALWAYS wrong.

And female circumcision is very different, on the basis that it's often cruelly done, and has very real and very serious health ramifications for the rest of the child's life. Whereas male circumcision is done with anesthetic, with no health ramifications, and often is viewed as a culturally important act. So don't even compare them, you clearly know nothing about either beyond opinion and what you've read on Wikipedia.

 

[Sneeze]

I live in the UK where circumcision is not as massively prevalent in the states, I personally am not circumcised, I dont know about my friends, it's not really a discussion that comes up! heh!

Why is it so common in the states? It seems abnormal to americans to not be circumcised. honestly I think it should be an adults choice, but that said, I've never thought about losing any more of what little I have

although one thing i've been curious about and never really had the chance to ask, are you supposed to be able to pull it down when erect? I know I cant :S

Dude, I think you SHOULD get circumcised. Your foreskin sounds to be too tight, which means problems.
Besides, you won't lose any length, just a flap of skin over what you already have.

How I understand it this can also be solved by just stretching the foreskin every so often, or I believe they sell creams to help the process along as well.

snip

As a baby you don't feel it, and trust me, it really isn't 'less pleasurable for BOTH parties'. Where are you even getting that from? It's not even less pleasurable for ONE party, especially if you don't have anything to compare it to.
And I'm in the UK too, I know it's not exactly the norm yet but I have no issues with being circumcised.

Of course you feel it as a baby, why wouldn't you, nerves are completely developed at that point. and its only common sense it would less pleasurable for the man, you are after all loosing a good deal of the nerves. For the women, no I can't vouch personally but the rolled back foreskin allegedly creates a ridged area which helps the women.

 

[Grand_Arcana]

Circumcising newborns should be illegal. It's pointless mutilation unless there is an immediate medical concern. I've been circumcised as a baby for cosmetic and "Traditional" reasons. I can't miss my foreskin, but it's unfair that I was never given a choice in the matter. And I can't get it back (unless. . . stem cells?)

Oh, and penile cancer is not only rare, it's extremely easy to detect early for obvious reasons.

 

[asam92]

Personal choice, the child should decide not the parent, unless like most others have said for medical reasons, however other people say it should be done because of Religious reasons, that's bullshit, you shouldn't be deciding your child's religion, again that is something they must decide. A friend of mine has REEEALLLLYYY religious parents, but he is impartial, he goes to church occasionally but under his own free will, this is how religion should be shown to kids. Sorry to get Off Topic.

 

[elvor0]

I would have it done, just for comfort and all that, but the thought of doing it NOW , scares the fuck out of me, I mean given the advantages it brings, (didn't know about the loss of pleasure, although is that entirely true? How would that come about?) surely it should just be an opt out thing, it's an entirely useless bit of flesh, that just gets in the way.

 

[nothinghere]

Circumcising newborns should be illegal. It's pointless mutilation unless there is an immediate medical concern. I've been circumcised as a baby for cosmetic and "Traditional" reasons. I can't miss my foreskin, but it's unfair that I was never given a choice in the matter. And I can't get it back (unless. . . stem cells?)

Oh, and penile cancer is not only rare, it's extremely easy to detect early for obvious reasons.

theres actually natural and surgical foreskin restoration

Surgical involves skin grafting

Natural involves foreskin recreation using methods such as tugging and stretching

 

[v3n0mat3]

I have never gotten a complaint about me being uncircumcised. Even if I did, I don't give a damn. I'm not going to cut off a part of my penis just because of a one night stand, no matter how hot she is. To be honest, if she did care, then ask her how would she feel about getting circumcised. And it's not "harder to clean". You just clean it like normal. I don't know where people are getting the infection crap from, but it's not true. Unless you don't clean the tip at all... then you will get infections, most definitely.

 

[drisky]

I don't think you can really expect a reasoned discussion, circumcised men are going to defend it to the death, they have it, and they can't change it, and the opposite applies, well, even if uncircumcised males can change it.

Thats what I was just thinking, looking at this thread I can't find a single post that envies the other side, we all have ours the way it is and don't want to think about how it would be the other way. No one who has one that has been circumcised cares so I don't see why the opposition is yelling out "its wrong, think of the victims", because really its starting to seem like there aren't any victims. The fact that every one is defending the one they have is making me conclude thats is just not that big of a deal ether way.

Edit: I just saw both kinds arguing for the other side on this page, but still.

 

[Zaik]

Quick question, just how exactly do you work out a percentage of pleasure lost? That's far too subjective a concept to be measurable.

My father, who claims to have been circumcised later in life(obviously I wasn't there so I wouldn't know for sure), says masturbating isn't as good anymore, but sex was no different. It all seems like circumstantial(lulz) evidence. There's so much false and exaggerated information about sex as it is, what really makes this any more reliable?