Poll: Circumcision

[Jumplion]

Well as I sad, the time you last can be improved by mental training and practice. There ain't no compensation for the loss of nerve endings down below though But yea, I think it won't matter thát much. Problem is ofcourse: you can't really check properly. We know that a lot of nerve endings are gone, but it's hard to notice the difference because most people are circumcised long before they ever have sex.

Yeah, that's true. That's why I always shake my head when I read people saying "It decreases pleasure by 40%!#$%!@^" when really it doesn't matter much since I've never had sex and have no idea how it feels.

So, we're even, but the fight goes on! It's like the battle of the sexes, only with the same sex and with more genitalia!

 

[LewsTherin]

Circumsized, personally don't care. Our medical technology is good enough that infection is pretty well nil and that bit of skin really isn't that important.

Female circumcision, however, is a disgusting practise, as they actually have to push things through it, and it usually occurs in places where it can't be done hygienically or safely, not that it is safe or hygienic to start with.

 

[Clashero]

I find circumcision to be a barbaric, sadistic practice. The foreskin is full of nerve endings, so it must hurt like a *****. Most babies go into a pain-induced shock when they're circumcised, but their moronic parents think that they're just asleep. (and have you SEEN the device used? It looks like a torture device).
Plus, you probably lose feeling on the penis when circumcised. I mean, when my head rubs against something, or even if it gets hit by the water from the shower, it HURTS. A lot. So circumcised people are either always in pain or lose all feeling on their penis. Which means that sex will be less pleasurable. (on the other hand, maybe that's better for the woman because it means the man will take longer to finish).
Also, it's not a requirement to be circumcised if you want to convert to Judaism. You can be a fucking Rabbi and not be circumcised.

I can feel my penis just fine thank you. I've been to some Brises, and the baby is always given a swab of whiskey to drunk them up, and they never cry or anything. And the piece cut off is pretty minuscule.

Unless you're talking about medical circumcisions, if that's the case, I have no idea how that goes.

But it is true that a Rabbi can be uncircumcised, but it's pretty rare.

EDIT: And isn't not feeling any pain on the penis....good? I tell ya, I'd rather feel a slap on the balls with 50% decrease in intensity than one at full pain >_<

Feeling pain is actually better. It tells you that whatever you're doing is wrong and you should either stop or do it differently.
They don't cry because they go into shock immediately, and the piece cut off is tiny because their penis is tiny as well. They're babies.
And being given whiskey so that he isn't very aware of what's happening is something I'd rather have my kid avoid.

 

[Jumplion]

I find circumcision to be a barbaric, sadistic practice. The foreskin is full of nerve endings, so it must hurt like a *****. Most babies go into a pain-induced shock when they're circumcised, but their moronic parents think that they're just asleep. (and have you SEEN the device used? It looks like a torture device).
Plus, you probably lose feeling on the penis when circumcised. I mean, when my head rubs against something, or even if it gets hit by the water from the shower, it HURTS. A lot. So circumcised people are either always in pain or lose all feeling on their penis. Which means that sex will be less pleasurable. (on the other hand, maybe that's better for the woman because it means the man will take longer to finish).
Also, it's not a requirement to be circumcised if you want to convert to Judaism. You can be a fucking Rabbi and not be circumcised.

I can feel my penis just fine thank you. I've been to some Brises, and the baby is always given a swab of whiskey to drunk them up, and they never cry or anything. And the piece cut off is pretty minuscule.

Unless you're talking about medical circumcisions, if that's the case, I have no idea how that goes.

But it is true that a Rabbi can be uncircumcised, but it's pretty rare.

EDIT: And isn't not feeling any pain on the penis....good? I tell ya, I'd rather feel a slap on the balls with 50% decrease in intensity than one at full pain >_<

Feeling pain is actually better. It tells you that whatever you're doing is wrong and you should either stop or do it differently.
They don't cry because they go into shock immediately, and the piece cut off is tiny because their penis is tiny as well. They're babies.
And being given whiskey so that he isn't very aware of what's happening is something I'd rather have my kid avoid.

I'll give you that much, so essentially we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Clashero]

I find circumcision to be a barbaric, sadistic practice. The foreskin is full of nerve endings, so it must hurt like a *****. Most babies go into a pain-induced shock when they're circumcised, but their moronic parents think that they're just asleep. (and have you SEEN the device used? It looks like a torture device).
Plus, you probably lose feeling on the penis when circumcised. I mean, when my head rubs against something, or even if it gets hit by the water from the shower, it HURTS. A lot. So circumcised people are either always in pain or lose all feeling on their penis. Which means that sex will be less pleasurable. (on the other hand, maybe that's better for the woman because it means the man will take longer to finish).
Also, it's not a requirement to be circumcised if you want to convert to Judaism. You can be a fucking Rabbi and not be circumcised.

I can feel my penis just fine thank you. I've been to some Brises, and the baby is always given a swab of whiskey to drunk them up, and they never cry or anything. And the piece cut off is pretty minuscule.

Unless you're talking about medical circumcisions, if that's the case, I have no idea how that goes.

But it is true that a Rabbi can be uncircumcised, but it's pretty rare.

EDIT: And isn't not feeling any pain on the penis....good? I tell ya, I'd rather feel a slap on the balls with 50% decrease in intensity than one at full pain >_<

Feeling pain is actually better. It tells you that whatever you're doing is wrong and you should either stop or do it differently.
They don't cry because they go into shock immediately, and the piece cut off is tiny because their penis is tiny as well. They're babies.
And being given whiskey so that he isn't very aware of what's happening is something I'd rather have my kid avoid.

I'll give you that much, so essentially we'll have to agree to disagree.

Agreed! (to disagree, that is).
It says a lot about the quality of people on The Escapist that "agreeing to disagree" is actually possible.

 

[Overlord_Dave]

And based on the medical studies, there is no advantages of circumcision. It just seems like a rather barbaric, and possibly scarring practice.

Sorry to jump in there, Gormourn, but recently it's been found that being circumcised reduces the risk of catching HIV, as the virus attacks the cells in the foreskin. It still doesn't make you immune though.

Which, although being a perfectly reasonable argument for getting yourself circumcised, it's completely irrelevant argument for circumcising babies who, last time I checked, weren't getting much sex.

Not saying that you were making that argument, but a hell of a lot of people do...

Fair enough. FYI, I wasn't making that argument, and don't really have an opinion on the ethics of circumcision. Was just saying that in a small way (that probably will never affect most western people) it does have at least one advantage.

 

[Seldon2639]

I was born in Russia, and I don't believe the circumcision is a normal thing to do there. Or in Europe, but I might be wrong there.

So yeah, I'm not.

I don't see a point in cutting off, pretty much, a piece of yourself, especially in such a sensitive area for yourself... and especially for your own kids. What kind of a maniac would do that?

And based on the medical studies, there is no advantages of circumcision. It just seems like a rather barbaric, and possibly scarring practice.

Also... You know, I doubt that anyone would care whether you're circumcised or not by the time you get close enough to someone to get into their pants. I mean, really, if they do, the whole "relationship" isn't worth it.

There is nothing freaky about it, probably most of the world is uncircumcised. Both males and females, of course. Female circumcision seems even nastier.

In fairness, the studies go back and forth on this. The World Health Organization has found that circumcision decreases the chances of contracting HIV by 30%. Given that 30% decrease if it were a vaccine would be heralded as a breakthrough in the epidemic, there are some health benefits. Similarly, the medical field has at different times claimed it decreased cervical cancer rates (some studies still confirm this), and at other times have claimed there's no benefit. So that part's still up in the air.

 

[IchStrafenDich]

And how is this discussion laughable? Because we don't all agree with your point of view?

This discussion is laughable because of earlier points I made: there are bigger things to get angry about, or on which one can have a strong opinion. People are dying needlessly because of the idiocy and greed of a few men in power and the silent complicity of your fellow men. The world is going to hell in a handbasket because there is nobody out there with a megaphone and a hunting rifle trying to make things right. So-called 'causes' like this one are the empty gestures of a lazy, corrupt bourgeoisie - the weak, spasmodic moral masturbation of a decadent and purposeless society. Everybody who really, passionately cares about such useless topics as the moral permissibility of circumcision needs to direct their energy towards real issues, and channel their empty, word-based web protests into real-life, bullet-based protests.

In conclusion, Doug, I'm not angry because you disagree with me; I'm angry because you and everybody you know have enough free time to think and care about inconsequential issues like this when you could be saving the planet. Actually, I'm angry at everybody who isn't trying to be Timothy McVeigh (in substance, rather than ideology).

 

[Jumplion]

And how is this discussion laughable? Because we don't all agree with your point of view?

This discussion is laughable because of earlier points I made: there are bigger things to get angry about, or on which one can have a strong opinion. People are dying needlessly because of the idiocy and greed of a few men in power and the silent complicity of your fellow men. The world is going to hell in a handbasket because there is nobody out there with a megaphone and a hunting rifle trying to make things right. So-called 'causes' like this one are the empty gestures of a lazy, corrupt bourgeoisie - the weak, spasmodic moral masturbation of a decadent and purposeless society. Everybody who really, passionately cares about such useless topics as the moral permissibility of circumcision needs to direct their energy towards real issues, and channel their empty, word-based web protests into real-life, bullet-based protests.

In conclusion, Doug, I'm not angry because you disagree with me; I'm angry because you and everybody you know have enough free time to think and care about inconsequential issues like this when you could be saving the planet. Actually, I'm angry at everybody who isn't trying to be Timothy McVeigh (in substance, rather than ideology).

Look, understand that the world is in the toilet right now, but we can't spend every waking minute thinking about the things that "matter" just like we can't spend every minute mourning for everyone who's died in the past 2 seconds.

This may be a "pointless" debate, but for one it keeps our minds off of how bad off the world is in and for two we can't keep on worrying about everything else in the world and worry about some third world country.

I remember reading an example of this, someone went off in a thread about something (forgot what) and was moaning and groaning about how kids in Africa are starving. We're a gaming forum, we can't feel sympathy for everyone. It's basically the same thing as "Hey, Joe, this burger's a bit burnt, can I get another one?" "STFU KIDZ ARE STARVUNG IN AFRIKA!!##%!" Yes, I get it, the world's is full of crap, but we can't deal with everything at once.

I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, not helping out the world and stuff, but don't come here and say that we're all being stupid for arguing about something that doesn't matter because that's just a childish way to look at things.

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

The idea of sharp objects near my genitals makes me very uncomfortable.
I think its somewhat cruel to cut off a childs foreskin, especially if they cannot concent.
It'd be like tattooing their ass.
An out-of-sight think with no real difference other than appearance.

 

[Doug]

And how is this discussion laughable? Because we don't all agree with your point of view?

This discussion is laughable because of earlier points I made: there are bigger things to get angry about, or on which one can have a strong opinion. People are dying needlessly because of the idiocy and greed of a few men in power and the silent complicity of your fellow men. The world is going to hell in a handbasket because there is nobody out there with a megaphone and a hunting rifle trying to make things right. So-called 'causes' like this one are the empty gestures of a lazy, corrupt bourgeoisie - the weak, spasmodic moral masturbation of a decadent and purposeless society. Everybody who really, passionately cares about such useless topics as the moral permissibility of circumcision needs to direct their energy towards real issues, and channel their empty, word-based web protests into real-life, bullet-based protests.

In conclusion, Doug, I'm not angry because you disagree with me; I'm angry because you and everybody you know have enough free time to think and care about inconsequential issues like this when you could be saving the planet. Actually, I'm angry at everybody who isn't trying to be Timothy McVeigh (in substance, rather than ideology).

Look, understand that the world is in the toilet right now, but we can't spend every waking minute thinking about the things that "matter" just like we can't spend every minute mourning for everyone who's died in the past 2 seconds.

This may be a "pointless" debate, but for one it keeps our minds off of how bad off the world is in and for two we can't keep on worrying about everything else in the world and worry about some third world country.

I remember reading an example of this, someone went off in a thread about something (forgot what) and was moaning and groaning about how kids in Africa are starving. We're a gaming forum, we can't feel sympathy for everyone. It's basically the same thing as "Hey, Joe, this burger's a bit burnt, can I get another one?" "STFU KIDZ ARE STARVUNG IN AFRIKA!!##%!" Yes, I get it, the world's is full of crap, but we can't deal with everything at once.

I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, not helping out the world and stuff, but don't come here and say that we're all being stupid for arguing about something that doesn't matter because that's just a childish way to look at things.

Agreed.

And IchStrafenDich? I do hate that the world is a shithole, but what are YOU doing about it then? Aside from posting on these forums? I do think about the bigger, more important things too, you know. Ok, I don't go off with a rifle to shoot people who are incharge (and frankly, how does that make you better than them? And purchasing a rifle does, in fact, send money to the arms manufacturers who provide cheap weapons to Africa).

But fuck it, this does have wider issues - unnecessary circumcisions cause far too many deaths when they are conducted in unclean conditions, both for male and female circumcisions. Add to that, its a sign of the crappy non-sense that makes conditions for Africans just that little bit worse. And the focus on this unnecessary medical act (in general, there are specific cases where its needed) robs poor Americans of more money because of the USA's lack of medical cover.

In summary, stop being a double standard hypocrite.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I was circumcised as an infant.

It has made no difference in my life. Perhaps uncircumcised men lead glorious, sexually ecstatic lives free from the painful knowledge that their parents subjected them to some kind of torture, but I doubt it. Calling it mutilation or inhumane treatment is ridiculous, as is saying that circumcision is absolutely better than the alternative.

Basically, what he said.

I mean, I still have sex, I don't think having a foreskin makes much differnce, if any.

 

[Jumplion]

No, and I am against the practice. This topic's been done before, me and Jumplion bashed heads together for about a week, and all that we accomplished was to drive skull fragments deep into our brains, so I'm just going to leave it as thus:

I do not believe in it, I would not condone it if I were witness to it being done, and I will not allow it to happen to my children.

Ehem "Jumplion and I" [/grammar nazi]

But I remember that debate. It was fun for a while and it got some answers out of my Rabbi.

Good times....sad, but good times.

 

[Spacewolf]

actually there is a medical reason for having it done i have had it done for medical reasons and 3 other people i know have had it done for medical reasons. Hurt like a ***** for about a week afterwards though, but it was better than the god awful pain that i had had constanly before it. I dont know any Jews so i dont know there opinions on it

 

[IchStrafenDich]

Look, understand that the world is in the toilet right now, but we can't spend every waking minute thinking about the things that "matter" just like we can't spend every minute mourning for everyone who's died in the past 2 seconds.

This may be a "pointless" debate, but for one it keeps our minds off of how bad off the world is in and for two we can't keep on worrying about everything else in the world and worry about some third world country.

I remember reading an example of this, someone went off in a thread about something (forgot what) and was moaning and groaning about how kids in Africa are starving. We're a gaming forum, we can't feel sympathy for everyone. It's basically the same thing as "Hey, Joe, this burger's a bit burnt, can I get another one?" "STFU KIDZ ARE STARVUNG IN AFRIKA!!##%!" Yes, I get it, the world's is full of crap, but we can't deal with everything at once.

I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, not helping out the world and stuff, but don't come here and say that we're all being stupid for arguing about something that doesn't matter because that's just a childish way to look at things.

Agreed.

And IchStrafenDich? I do hate that the world is a shithole, but what are YOU doing about it then? Aside from posting on these forums?

In summary, stop being a double standard hypocrite.

I'm taking my college savings, dropping out, doing menial labour and saving up for the financing of a Communist revolution in a third-world country with some like-minded psychopaths. We're looking for interested parties.

I at least hold myself to the standards I hold to others, but I appreciate the hypocrisy accusation. It must come easy, and feel justified, considering the society we live in.

 

[Joselyn]

I've been circumcised my whole life from what i know, some kind of infection when i was a baby (no idea)i didnt even know some people had foreskins until i was about 7.
tbf, no medical advantages but my wife told me she prefers it to one with a foreskin (apparently a foreskin looks like an ill fitting sock)im personally indifferent to the whole thing, i reckon it looks better but thats how i've grown up with it so meh.

Ill-fitting sock!!! That's one way of putting it!

 

[seidlet]

I was circumcised as an infant. It has made no difference in my life.

Perhaps uncircumcised men lead glorious, sexually ecstatic lives free from the painful knowledge that their parents subjected them to some kind of torture, but I doubt it. Calling it mutilation or inhumane treatment is ridiculous, just as it is equally ridiculous to say that that circumcision is absolutely better than the alternative.

it's an autonomy issue - people too young to consent to a procedure should NOT be given a surgery that is entirely cultural and cosmetic. people would get their knickers in a twist if a baby girl's clitoral hood was removed for ANY of the reasons that we use to justify circumcision.

circumcision was designed explicitly to reduce sexual sensation - now it's become a cultural issue, and we look for reasons to justify our cultural practice.

i should probably stay out of this given that this is my 'hot button' issue, but i will say that i think it's child abuse and i think it should be illegal for all non-consenting individuals. that said, i think circumcision should be legal for both men AND women who have reached the age of consent - adults should be allowed to do whatever bizarre thing to their body that they choose.

 

[Spacewolf]

So your saying that someone who is in constant pain should have to wait till they are 18 to have the Procediure