Poll: Compulsory Military Service

[lunavixen]

Pfft... we don't need compulsory service for the people, we can just turn the local wildlife on them, that'll take care of any intruders

On a serious note, most countries don't need to have compulsory service, and I don't think that forcing military service on people who don't want to or can't do the work will not end well. I can understand the practical applications in some countries like Iran, which are often in conflict for some reason or another or in smaller countries with a lower total population (i.e. not enough to make up a military force based on volunteers alone), but in most Western countries where the militaries can have a decent military size (and a military reserve) based on those who chose that career path, it makes little sense to force everyone to do it.

 

[Majinash]

I voted yes because the question was "can compulsory service be good" not "will" it be good.

I'm going to do something I normally hate and bring fiction into this, but anyone who has read Startship Troopers may understand where I'm coming from. While that book didn't have true "compulsory" service, it was pretty similar and a good example of how it could be benificial to people.

If you havn't read the book and only seen the movie, try to remember the "Difference between a civilian and a citizen" part and understand you had an entire book exploring that idea.

the idea that I have some kind of duty to give my life to a state because I was born within its borders is fucking stupid

I think this is a bit unfair of a statement. Sure depending on your goverment it could look a lot like this (you used to fight for your king, not other peasants), but in any representivie goverment you arn't giving your life to the state, you are doing it for the people, yourself, your loved ones and everyone else.

 

[Nickolai77]

I can't think of any justifiable strategic reason for Slovakia to have conscription given that it is a member of NATO and isn't in any danger from aggression, unlike S Korea and Israel which do have conscription and must contend with serious threats across their borders.

To those who say that conscription teaches young people self-discipline: What about all those healthy, mature and well adjusted young people who don't need to be taught self-discipline? Why should they give two years of their lives for something that's not going to benefit them because some other young people aren't as motivated as they are?

To those who say that having an armed and trained populace can counter government tyranny: North Korea.


And finally, why should the armed forces have to cater for hundreds of thousands of people who don't want to be there when they could be using their resources to get the best out of those who volunteered?

 

[FoxKitsune]

My parents are very for the whole thing, one of those few issues they agree on, and it's all about the discipline once again. Now naive as it is, I really think we should be at the point where our military (EVERYONE'S) should be getting dialled down on, not added too.

That, of course, is in a perfect world.

As for the issue at hand, No. It would have killed me. Not literally but perhaps. Some people are soldier (or even recruit) material. I am not.

 

[Bertylicious]

Ha! National service would be ridiculous. Can you imagine the stories?

"This one time, at national service camp, in Helmand Province, we went to meet up with these friends who were locals, and Johnny had his wallet stolen on the way, and we chased this kid, there were 7 of us, and we beat the crap out of him and his brother in an alley. It was great! Johnny took pics on his phone and we put them on Facebook."

Also, thinking back to how depressed and screwed up I was a teenager, I probably wouldn't be someone you'd want to give a loaded gun to. Or go camping with, which is, like, 90% of military service as near as I can tell.

 

[ecoho]

yes I believe everyone should spend time in the military, if only to educate people as training in the military is pretty much life training.

 

[Vegosiux]

The one argument in favor if it would be "It give people some sense of discipline and responsibility".

But, do we have to make it a military service to achieve that? Hell, we could do with "Bring someone else's kid to work" programs. We've got enough thankless jobs that people do simply because they have to be done all over the place, it's not hard to expose our youngsters to the experience.

 

[AnarchistFish]

the idea that I have some kind of duty to give my life to a state because I was born within its borders is fucking stupid

I think this is a bit unfair of a statement. Sure depending on your goverment it could look a lot like this (you used to fight for your king, not other peasants), but in any representivie goverment you arn't giving your life to the state, you are doing it for the people, yourself, your loved ones and everyone else.

My countries haven't fought any wars since the world wars that can be justified as protecting their people (with the possible exception of the Falklands war but that's a contentious one).

 

[Thaluikhain]

To those who say that conscription teaches young people self-discipline: What about all those healthy, mature and well adjusted young people who don't need to be taught self-discipline? Why should they give two years of their lives for something that's not going to benefit them because some other young people aren't as motivated as they are?

The other question I'd like to ask, is did those people chose to join up when they had the chance?

I hear an awful lot of people blathering on about how great it is for people to join the military, but only when it's other people doing it.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Wrong section. It should be in Religion and Politics section.

 

[Majinash]

My countries haven't fought any wars since the world wars that can be justified as protecting their people (with the possible exception of the Falklands war but that's a contentious one).

I'm sorry, I wasn't speaking directly about your country. Your comment seemed broad to me, and I was simply responding that what people fight to protect shouldn't be a landmass but the people who live there. This isn't true everywhere of course, dictators command troops in their own best interests. In many countries when you are asked (or told) to serve, it is for the people. I didn't mean to presume on your personal situation.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Part of me says yes because of the social good it could do as you pointed out, however I am also wary with any conscription as conscripts are almost always inferior to volunteers.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Compulsory military service CAN be a good thing, but it can also be a very bad thing. Look at this way, I would have absolutely no issue being called into service to fight to defend my homeland. Likewise if I were called up to defend a neighbouring country due to some threat to the EU, I would fight to defend my continental neighbours. However, if I were called up to fight some foreign war for reasons that don't make sense, or if I suspected the government was lying about why we were being called up, I would object.

Compulsory military service in peace time with no threat? Hell no. I have my own life to lead.

 

[Something Amyss]

I remain in favour of an all-volunteer army. That being said, COULD it be a good thing? Well, possibly. I won't say it can't be, only that I currently remain unconvinced. Looking through the comments of supporters, I'm not seeing any arguments that persuade me. But could it be? Eh. I suppose.

 

[Guffe]

In Finland we have it.
But you can do "civil service" in stead, which basically is working for the state in some other way than doing the military service.
The service is minimum 6 months and maximum 1 year.
Many are against it here, but I didn't have anything against it. I guess it has a lot to do with attitude too.

 

[Uncreation]

the idea that I have some kind of duty to give my life to a state because I was born within its borders is fucking stupid

I think this is a bit unfair of a statement. Sure depending on your goverment it could look a lot like this (you used to fight for your king, not other peasants), but in any representivie goverment you arn't giving your life to the state, you are doing it for the people, yourself, your loved ones and everyone else.

And why should giving your life for the people be better than for the state? Most people here are in absolutely no way worth dying for. And even if they were, why should i die for strangers? And as for my family and loved ones, if i have any duty to them, it's to live, so that i can look after them, not to die some stupid pointless death that will make no difference. If war were to start, the best way i could take care of people i care about would be to take them with me somewhere where the war couldn't reach them.
Even if you somehow manage to make a difference yourself, which is almost impossible for one single person on the frontline, if you die, your loved ones will suffer regardless. If you have a wife and childred, your wife will have to take care of them alone, at least for a while, and even if she remarries, there is no guaranty that he will be a good husband and father. And even without the material needs left out there is still the matter of the emotional damage done.
In my own case, i am an only child, my father is dead, and the closest living family besides my mother and my grandparents are some cousins. If i were to die "for the people", who would take care of my mother?
Fuck dying for the state, the people, or any other bullshit like that. Live to take care of yourself and the people that you love, and let some other idiot die needlesly if he wants to.

 

[Majinash]

Fuck dying for the state, the people, or any other bullshit like that. Live to take care of yourself and the people that you love, and let some other idiot die needlesly if he wants to.

I'd disagree that these people are dieing needlessly.

And I guess I'd just see your view as a quite selfish. I enjoy putting myself out there to help other people, when it's my job and when it isn't. Some might call it naive, but I think is simply being the change I want to see in the world.

 

[Uncreation]

Fuck dying for the state, the people, or any other bullshit like that. Live to take care of yourself and the people that you love, and let some other idiot die needlesly if he wants to.

I'd disagree that these people are dieing needlessly.

And I guess I'd just see your view as a quite selfish. I enjoy putting myself out there to help other people, when it's my job and when it isn't. Some might call it naive, but I think is simply being the change I want to see in the world.

I don't see how it's selfish to try and get your friends and family to safety. One common person on the front line can't turn the tide of a war. Hell, depending on the situation not even 10000 can. The best thing i can do for the people i care about is to be with them and help them, not to die like an idiot. And you seem to not take into account the part of my post where i mentioned the consequences that a death can have on that persons family.
I don't see why i should value helping strangers above helping people i know.

 

[Majinash]

I don't see why i should value helping strangers above helping people i know.

That part is what I think is selfish. Not saying you are wrong, just that it sounds very selfish to me. It is also one of those "if everyone thought this way, it wouldn't work for anyone" kind of things. So there is that.

Also, I disagree that soldiers die like idiots.