Poll: Console Syndrome

[Catalyst6]

I have Dragon Age on Xbox 360...about.

Same here. ... nothing to complain about anymore.

I think what the OP is getting at is that on the PC you can zoom out to overhead view. ... the graphics and things are like...

Well, it doesn't bother me at all, and I was a huge fan of Baldur's Gate and that series of games. I actually kinda liked the idea of seeing things from a more involved level, as opposed to the "God looking down on his characters" view. Like, how would your characters know there was a darkspawn behind that boulder? Because you can see it? I guess, but I appreciate the immersion of the close up view.

But the main point I was trying to make was that there's nothing wrong with it on consoles, like so many PC elitists will insist, just different. The game itself isn't changed, the camera is. Big whoop, y'know?

It just seems kinda nit-picky to me.

I has simply meant that while the involved action perspective is nice, not having the mouse and such takes out the overhead "command" view, which is not only a camera angle but an entire play style. It's not that the on-the-back camera is *bad* in any way, it's just that the console does not allow for *every* style of play.

As for the rest, I can't stand FPSes on console. It simply lacks the accuracy and finesse of the mouse, which drives me absolutely crazy. I don't know if it's just be cause I have Sniper Syndrome or what, I need that accuracy...

And I'm not saying that the consoles are bad, of course. It's funny, up until recently my computer was utter crap so I was console-only in a time when PCs were hot. Now that I've gotten a decent PC... yeah.

All that I'm saying is that

Because once they found out that pretty much everything except the RTS was better on the console

... console?

They. Are. Equal. If you disagree,... Phantom.

I'm sorry, ... is the Phantom?

Let's not start a flame war, yes?

 

[UberNoodle]

I ask you this: how complex and 'hardcore' need controls for a game be? If for an average action game, PC gamers want significantly more buttons than found on a control pad, then I honestly think that the carple tunnel syndrome isn't worth it. Immersion in gaming can come from transparency of controls. Some gamers might call this 'dumbing down', but since when are 'everything but the kitchen sink' controls smart? There is a balancing act in motion here. Less buttons and streamlining can drastically improve a game, and more buttons and complexity can ruin it. It works both ways.

And as for graphics, if PC gamers are against developers catering for lowerend consoles, then are they also against catering for lowerend PCs? Should PC gamers have to go without games that could quite easily be alowed to run on their older machines?

The PC vs Consoles attitude is really very sad. PC gamers act like they run gaming and invented it all, yet I remember when PC struggled to play anything as good as what was on the Super Nintendo. And you will not find many PC FPS with as complete a list of features as Golden Eye had in its year of release. PC went its way, and consoles went its own. They are both converging now, and that is a good thing for the long term.

 

[Wolfram23]

Well developers like consoles as they don't need to worry about compatibility with a bajillion different systems/hardware. However, there's still quite a few PC developers out there. I don't think there's really any need for concern.

 

[UberNoodle]

Because once they found out that pretty much everything except the RTS was better on the console

Hahahaha, yeah good one. That is a joke right? You're seriously suggesting that FPS games are better on a console?

They. Are. Equal. If you disagree, well, you'll find out what happened to the Phantom.

I'm sorry, you're just plain wrong. In what way are they "equal"? Any console FPS can be done better on the PC and there's no way a controller is anywhere near as precise or fast as a mouse, so please enlighten me. And what, pray tell, is the Phantom?

How would it done better? Are you talking about graphically? If so, then it isn't a matter of 'better'. The value is in the gameplay and design. If you are talking about precision controls, then again, it isn't a matter of 'better' - just 'different'. The attitude that 'any' FPS from consoles would be 'better' on PC isn't needed. A console and a PC is essentially the same. They only differ in controls and access. A game designed for a set of controls will be designed to use them to the fullest.

Again, I ask to look at Goldeneye. Many people against that game have a distorted sense of time. In its year of release, it had such a set of features that most PC FPS could only dream of. It didn't originate most of them, but neither did many of the most worshipped PC FPS games. If it had been release for PC instead, it would now be revered alongside other games of the time. Instead, it is seen in a very skewed manner when in fact it was part of the same revolution in FPS development.

http://www.gametrailers.com/users/kilkillion/gamepad/?action=viewblog&id=496576

I only bring it up because it shows that console or PC, developers are no different and they try to make the games that they want, where they can. It isn't a 'platform' thing.

 

[Billion Backs]

They focus on both. There, I answered your question.

Although I'd choose PC almost any time... Fighting games are fun on consoles, but otherwise I don't see any point for the horrible controllers.

 

[AlanShore]

How would it done better? Are you talking about graphically? If so, then it isn't a matter of 'better'. The value is in the gameplay and design. If you are talking about precision controls, then again, it isn't a matter of 'better' - just 'different'. The attitude that 'any' FPS from consoles would be 'better' on PC isn't needed. A console and a PC is essentially the same. They only differ in controls and access. A game designed for a set of controls will be designed to use them to the fullest.

Again, I ask to look at Goldeneye. Many people against that game have a distorted sense of time. In its year of release, it had such a set of features that most PC FPS could only dream of. It didn't originate most of them, but neither did many of the most worshipped PC FPS games. If it had been release for PC instead, it would now be revered alongside other games of the time. Instead, it is seen in a very skewed manner when in fact it was part of the same revolution in FPS development.

http://www.gametrailers.com/users/kilkillion/gamepad/?action=viewblog&id=496576

I only bring it up because it shows that console or PC, developers are no different and they try to make the games that they want, where they can. It isn't a 'platform' thing.

I should have said "better, or at least equal to" but I'm referring to any aspect of a game; graphics, gameplay, controls, etc. There isn't a single area where a console wins out in my view. I don't buy into your premise that control schemes can't be considered better or worse than others and they are just "different", there's a reason why the pro FPS gamers on the PC don't use pads.

I'm fully aware that a console and a PC are almost fundamentally the same in terms of hardware, but you make it sound like differences such as "controls and access" are completely trivial when they aren't. While I don't doubt that developers try their hardest to use the console controls to the fullest, ultimately all the good design in the world can't make the limitations of a console controller go away.

Let's not start a flame war, yes?

You should tell that to HG131, he's the one making, frankly, ridiculous claims with no reasoning.

 

[jamesworkshop]

I think consoles are prefered in development terms but in terms of being an actual gamer I believe that the PC still offers the best experience

Resident evil 5
Assassins creed
prototype
batman aa
bioshock 1 + 2
Dead space
Modern warfare 1 + 2
devil may cry 4
unreal t 3
splinter cell conviction
street fighter 4

all ended up looking better and running better on PC especially the stuff from Capcom being significantly better versions rather than straight up ports, nothing beats playing prototype as Ronald McDonald

Another way to look at it is that lots of typical console games like the new dead rising 2 and even darksiders are getting brought to the pc which in its history has never really had decent 3rd person action adventure games made for it or even the pc version of blazblue I mean when did a japanesse developer make an arcade beat-em-up for the pc in the western market

 

[Catalyst6]

I should have said "better, or at least equal to" but I'm referring to any aspect of a game; graphics, gameplay, controls, etc. There isn't a single area where a console wins out in my view. I don't buy into your premise that control schemes can't be considered better or worse than others and they are just "different", there's a reason why the pro FPS gamers on the PC don't use pads.

I'm fully aware that a console and a PC are almost fundamentally the same in terms of hardware, but you make it sound like differences such as "controls and access" are completely trivial when they aren't. While I don't doubt that developers try their hardest to use the console controls to the fullest, ultimately all the good design in the world can't make the limitations of a console controller go away.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that PCs are by and large *much* better at most games in terms of control. The precision and pace control of the mouse combined with the versatility of the keyboard? Classic. Controllers simply cannot keep up.

The only kind of games that are better on the console have to be platformers, fighting, and *some* stealth games. Platformers need 360 degrees of movement control, which can sometimes be hard to do with WASD. Fighting games... down downright right punch. You catch my drift. Stealth games show the biggest flaw with PC in that you don't have the same control over the pressure on the movement, aka you can't press W lightly to walk. This becomes a problem in games like Splinter Cell where you are constantly dialing up and down your speed of walking. But frankly, how often does that happen in games? Very rarely is the answer.

 

[AlanShore]

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that PCs are by and large *much* better at most games in terms of control. The precision and pace control of the mouse combined with the versatility of the keyboard? Classic. Controllers simply cannot keep up.

The only kind of games that are better on the console have to be platformers, fighting, and *some* stealth games. Platformers need 360 degrees of movement control, which can sometimes be hard to do with WASD. Fighting games... down downright right punch. You catch my drift. Stealth games show the biggest flaw with PC in that you don't have the same control over the pressure on the movement, aka you can't press W lightly to walk. This becomes a problem in games like Splinter Cell where you are constantly dialing up and down your speed of walking. But frankly, how often does that happen in games? Very rarely is the answer.

Glad we see eye to eye for the most part, however I hear the argument you've made in your second paragraph all the time and I disagree. Part of the reason why I love PC gaming is the flexibility it offers and the ability to plug in different controllers is a consequence of that. So while I agree that using a keyboard for those genres can be clumsy, it's extremely simple to plug in a pad/steering wheel/whatever to your PC. Consoles can't however, use a mouse to play an FPS (and I don't accept that FragFX POS thing as an option for reasons I've outlined in some of my older posts and won't go into here).

 

[Catalyst6]

Glad we see eye to eye for the most part, however I hear the argument you've made in your second paragraph all the time and I disagree. Part of the reason why I love PC gaming is the flexibility it offers and the ability to plug in different controllers is a consequence of that. So while I agree that using a keyboard for those genres can be clumsy, it's extremely simple to plug in a pad/steering wheel/whatever to your PC. Consoles can't however, use a mouse to play an FPS (and I don't accept that FragFX POS thing as an option for reasons I've outlined in some of my older posts and won't go into here).

Ah, of course, how could I forget peripherals. Nothing quite like plugging in a USB controller to play MGS II because Konami couldn't be bothered with real controls then promptly never using it again.

And yes, I see what you are saying, and I do agree. However, the fact that some games *require* you to use a peripheral like a controller does show some console bias.

And the FragFX, that's that stupid glove thing with the mouse on it? I saw one of those once and suddenly I had a sharp pain in my wrist, never knew why...

 

[AlanShore]

Ah, of course, how could I forget peripherals. Nothing quite like plugging in a USB controller to play MGS II because Konami couldn't be bothered with real controls then promptly never using it again.

And yes, I see what you are saying, and I do agree. However, the fact that some games *require* you to use a peripheral like a controller does show some console bias.

And the FragFX, that's that stupid glove thing with the mouse on it? I saw one of those once and suddenly I had a sharp pain in my wrist, never knew why...

God yeah, I remember trying to play the original Metal Gear Solid using a keyboard - really did not go well!

Yep, it's that thing that is like half a PS3 controller with a mouse attached to it. I haven't tried one myself but from what I've read on the internet it doesn't behave exactly as a mouse on the PC would behave because of all the extra "player aids" such as acceleration and auto aim. And if the standard controller is so great, why does it need to exist in the first place?

 

[SomeBoredGuy]

I am a PC gamer myself, and it is pretty obvious that most major developers aren't exactly showin' the love for my platform of choice, but they are somewhat justified since PC is a smaller market and piracy is generally easier.

In fact, that's another reason why ninjas are way better than pirates.

 

[GonzoGamer]

I am a PC gamer myself, and it is pretty obvious that most major developers aren't exactly showin' the love for my platform of choice, but they are somewhat justified since PC is a smaller market and piracy is generally easier.

In fact, that's another reason why ninjas are way better than pirates.

Yea. I think piracy is probably the main reason.

It's too bad because this generation the consoles are real crap: you either got a children's toy, a machine with good support that it needs because the hardware is crap, or a decent machine with the absolute worst support.

I sometimes wish I had just stayed with the PC this generation.

 

[D_987]

Consoles pirate just as much as PCs in fact

Bullshit:

Spoiler

Game-Specific Piracy Data

The data above indicates the general scale piracy, but the issue at hand is an examination of the piracy of PC games. A reasonably robust method of gauging the approximate scale of PC game piracy is to look at the torrents for the pirated releases of recent big-name games. In most cases there are multiple torrents available for the same game, however below I simply post a brief summary of the numbers involved from only a few of the more popular individual torrents and what they add up to as of the start of December 2008, using the popular torrent search engine Mininova:

Crysis Warhead (released Sept. 16 2008):

Crysis Warhead Multi-11 Full-Rip Skullptura - 84,139
Crysis Warhead MULTi10 CLONEDVD-iMMXpC - 54,029
Crysis Warhead-RELOADED - 36,240
Crysis WarHead 2008 - 29,836
CrYsis Warhead [MULTi10][CLONEDVD][FullGame][CrackIncl] KaYz 2008 - 22,784
Crysis Warhead CLONEDVD PC [English] - 16,039

The sample of torrents above adds up to 243,067 downloads for the PC version in just over a two month period. Note that Warhead sells for $29.99 as opposed to the $49.99 for a standard game.


Fallout 3 (released Oct. 30 2008):

PC Version:

Fallout 3-RELOADED--cgaurav?-- - 75,152
Fallout 3 Full-Rip Skullptura - 72,987
Fallout 3-RELOADED.[sitenameremoved.org] - 48,926
Fallout 3 [PC] - 45,130
Fallout.3-RELOADED.[sitenameremoved.com] - 12,226
Fallout 3-RELOADED [Full ISO/RPG/2008] - 12,110
FALLOUT 3-TRiViUM - 5,032

I counted almost 90 individual torrents for the full PC version of Fallout 3. The small sample listed above adds up to 271,563 downloads in a one month period.

XBox 360 Version:

Fallout 3 USA XBOX360-RUiNS - 6,649
Fallout 3 READNFO XBOX360-Seed4ME - 5,612
Fallout 3 PAL XBOX360-GLoBAL - 4,220
Fallout 3 GERMAN-0x0007 - 2,336
Fallout 3 USA PROPER RETAIL XBOX360-x360inT - 1,171

I counted around 30 individual torrents for the XBox 360 version of Fallout 3. The sample listed above adds up to 19,988 downloads in a one month period.

PS3 Version:

I couldn't find any Fallout 3 torrents which were labelled as or appeared to be for the PS3.


Call of Duty 4 (released Nov. 6 2007):

PC Version:

Call of duty 4 [PC-DVD] [English] 3876100 TPB - 205,277
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare Full-Rip Skullptura - 111,310
Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warfare [English][PCDVD] - 96,082
Call Of Duty 4 [PCFullGame][Eng-DvD][CrackIncl] KaYZ 2008 - 43,805
Call Of Duty 4-Razor1911 - 40,839
Call Of Duty 4-Razor1911 [sitenameremoved.com] - 21,456
Call Of Duty 4 - 18,295
++sitenameremoved com++-Call of Duty 4 DVD Modern Warfare - 17,212
Call of Duty(R) 4 - Modern Warfare - 12,300

I counted over 100 active torrents for the PC version of this game, a year after its release. The sample listed above adds up to 566,000 downloads in a one year period.

XBox 360 Version:

XBOX 360 Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warface [PAL] - 12,231
Call Of Duty 4 PAL FR XBOX360-PROPER - 11,758
[Xbox360-ITA]Call Of Duty 4- Modern Warfare - 9,702
Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warfare PAL FRENCH XBOX 360 - 9,277
Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warface PAL XBOX360-GAC[sitenameremoved.org] - 7,182
Call of Duty 4 [PAL - Spanish - XBOX360] - 5,194
Call Of Duty 4 ENG XBOX360 - 3,513

There were around 20 XBox 360 torrents for this game, and the sample listed above adds up to 58,857 downloads.

PS3 Version:

Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare USA PS3-PARADOX - 24,185
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare PAL PS3-MRN () - 9,484
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare PAL PS3-MRN - 6,876
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare USA PS3-PARADOX[sitenameremoved.net] - 5,382
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare USA PS3-PARADOX[sitenameremoved.org] - 3,683
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare USA PS3-PARADOX[sitenameremoved.org] - 3,065

There were only 6 PS3-labelled torrents for this game, and I've listed all of them above, adding up to 52,657 downloads over the past year.


For those questioning whether these figures are even remotely accurate, one well-known piracy site recently released a Top 10 Pirated PC Games of 2008 listing, and they even went so far as to insist that torrent figures compiled in this manner should be highly accurate.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html

Piracy on PC's are at ridiculous levels - you should read those articles. Don't try to tell me piracy levels have somehow dramatically changed in a year and a half...

 

[Iron Mal]

The fact that the centre of attention has largely shifted to consoles seems to be a tough notion for PC gamers to swallow.

There are some genres that are still PC exclusive (RTS and MMORPG being just two) but there are still many PC gamers who act as if it is the end of the gaming world (leading to the unusual 'we don't want it anyway' claims about modern games).

The 'decline' in PC gaming has come about as the result of the following (in my opinion):

1- Recent improvements in technology have brought consoles up on par with PCs to the point where most of the notable differences are largely asthetic and centred around style and preference.

2- Console games have a wider audience (I believe this is the result of the console game's greater simplicity and low maintinence compared to a high grade gaming PC of the same power).

3- The general notion is that getting a decent gaming PC working requires an IT degree or an expert (whether this is true or not is irrelevent, this is the image you have just as console gamers have the general image of being loud mouthed, racist, American 12 year olds even though there are many people who show otherwise).

4- PC gamers (in general) have higher standards and expectations from their games. I, a console gamer, had fun with Halo 3 and MW2 yet I have seen many examples of people on here who treat them with scorn and turn their noses up at them (with this in mind, are you suprised that devs may be less willing to make a game for a crowd who might turn around and call their hard work 'mediocre shit'?).

 

[Twilight_guy]

Neither... Have we considered that companies might actually make games and then begin to consider what platform to release it on or that perhaps what to developer for is a forgone conclusion because that company always develops for one or the other. I don't think it's actually a matter of trying to develop for one or the other, really.

 

[squid5580]

I have Dragon Age on Xbox 360 and plays perfectly fine. Dunno what you're on about.

Being able to set the camera from a overhead angle would have been nice. Certainly not a dealbreaker by any means

 

[squid5580]

The fact that the centre of attention has largely shifted to consoles seems to be a tough notion for PC gamers to swallow.

There are some genres that are still PC exclusive (RTS and MMORPG being just two) but there are still many PC gamers who act as if it is the end of the gaming world (leading to the unusual 'we don't want it anyway' claims about modern games).

The 'decline' in PC gaming has come about as the result of the following (in my opinion):

1- Recent improvements in technology have brought consoles up on par with PCs to the point where most of the notable differences are largely asthetic and centred around style and preference.

2- Console games have a wider audience (I believe this is the result of the console game's greater simplicity and low maintinence compared to a high grade gaming PC of the same power).

3- The general notion is that getting a decent gaming PC working requires an IT degree or an expert (whether this is true or not is irrelevent, this is the image you have just as console gamers have the general image of being loud mouthed, racist, American 12 year olds even though there are many people who show otherwise).

4- PC gamers (in general) have higher standards and expectations from their games. I, a console gamer, had fun with Halo 3 and MW2 yet I have seen many examples of people on here who treat them with scorn and turn their noses up at them (with this in mind, are you suprised that devs may be less willing to make a game for a crowd who might turn around and call their hard work 'mediocre shit'?).

I think you missed one

5- Piracy (the elephant in the room)

PC developers are helpless against piracy. ISPs, the law or the internet itself can't help them. So they look to DRMs which hurts as much as it doesn't really help and ends up costing them more in the long run.

At least on consoles there is a measure of protection. Perfect??? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Being caught though has consequences. Where PC piracy has none.

 

[Iron Mal]

I think you missed one

5- Piracy (the elephant in the room)

PC developers are helpless against piracy. ISPs, the law or the internet itself can't help them. So they look to DRMs which hurts as much as it doesn't really help and ends up costing them more in the long run.

At least on consoles there is a measure of protection. Perfect??? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Being caught though has consequences. Where PC piracy has none.

The main reason I neglected to mention piracy was because it's something that has recieved more than enough attention and discussion (why bother detailing what everyone else has practically written essays about?).

Although it still is a valid point.

 

[Jamieson 90]

As a PC gamer its really sad to see PC gaming go down the drain, I know everyone likes to show the PC happily dying since 1985 pic but you can't ignore the fact that developers prefer consoles at the moment.

Its getting worse as well, Noticed it over the last couple of years, With the rise of Online play for consoles in the early 2000's etc. Even Splash damage and Crytek are developing for the console as well as Dice and the BF games. All about momey and bigger markets, can't really blame them and I understand why but it does not make it any less annoying.