Poll: Cycling on the pavement / sidewalk

[FoolKiller]

All bad manners aside and douchebaggery that may follow, simple physics dictates that the bicycle should be used on the sidewalk. The reasoning is such:

In a worst case scenario there is a collision. Assume averages of 50 lbs a bike, 150 lb a person, and 3000 lb a car. And that is a light car.

Would you rather be:
a) a 150 lb person hit by a 200 lb person + bike combination
or
b) a 200 lb bike + person hit by a 3150 lb person + car combination

I actually don't care what the law says, I always ride on the sidewalk because of safety. And for those who argue there are disrespectful riders on the sidewalk, there are equally disrespectful motorists on the road. And they're quite a bit more dangerous.

 

[McMullen]

Well considering the cycalists were banging on his windows while he was driving with his kid and he gunned it to get away from some violent folk, nope no pitty.

At the end of the day, he injured and probably killed people. He and his kid got a little scared. Also, the people he injured or killed in this video were NOT acting violent towards him.

He injured a few people, no one was killed. And I think you underestimate how frightening it is to have a crowd of angry people around you beating on your windows.

They were still douchebags for riding really fuckin slow across the whole of the road.

It's interesting how you have yet to acknowledge that getting hit and injured by a car is a lot worse than being frightened for your safety, or even a bad thing. Indeed, if you get hit by a car, you DO fear for your safety as well. In fact, a cyclist often fears for his safety when he finds himself on the road with aggressive or inexperienced drivers, which is a fairly regular occurrence. That's why protests like the one in the video exist.

Perhaps violent anti-car protests and writing off injuries as irrelevant are both unproductive approaches to the problem, no?

 

[ReverendJ]

As a pedestrian living in a city with designated bike lanes, I find it is a common occurrence for me to be struck or nearly struck while on the sidewalk. It happens more frequently in a tunnel where there is a sign explicitly banning riding bikes and instructing cyclists to walk their vehicles. The signage is routinely ignored, and I frequently find myself in minor altercations with individuals whose convenience was more important than my safety.

Sorry, your proposed rules would do nothing but increase this kind of crap, which I really don't need on my morning commute. Especially when I'm wandering about with my kid. Lobby for bike lanes, stay the hell off the pavement.

 

[chadachada123]

The second point is that there is a simple solution, which is to change the law to allow cycling on the pavement with the following provisos (which are also my own personal code of conduct when cycling on a pavement myself):
1) A speed limit of, say, 10mph on any pavements with doorways that open directly onto them.
2) An absolute right of way of pedestrians over cyclists. If people are in your way, you have to wait. And no furious ringing of bells either.
3) An assumption of liability in the case of accident. Any unintentional collision between a cyclist and a pedestrian is automatically assumed to be the cyclist's fault.

This works so much better if we have pictures. I'll post a picture, and what I think makes sense regarding bicycling.

For this:

The primary people riding bicycles are going to be kids, and they SHOULD ride on the sidewalk, as it's far safer than the road, though for older bicyclists it really doesn't matter much since car speed is low.

For this, which is the main road just outside my neighborhood:

The speed limit is 45 mph here, and 55 mph just beyond here in both directions, so riding on the sidewalk is far, far safer than on the road, and only 'pro' bicyclists would even consider riding on the road. In California, the equivalent type of road tends to have very wide shoulders or dedicated bicyclist lanes, but anywhere that doesn't should ride on the sidewalk for safety.

I can't find a picture that would fit your first point, but outside of cities, it doesn't fit at all. In general, if you're in a city, use the damn bike line if there is one, but it should hardly matter, since everyone is going slow to begin with. If it's a road with a decent speed, unless you're a 'pro' bicyclist, just use the sidewalk, it's safer.

 

[Jamieson 90]

Cyclists should for the most part stay on the road unless they're children where I think it's safer for them to be on the pavement. Not that I'm saying they have to, just that it should be an option and not illegal.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Footpath with restrictions. Those restrictions being 'don't act in a way likely to cause forseeable injury or obstruction to pedestrians'. You think all cyclists have spedometers? You think there is a safe speed to cycle that doesn't render cycling pointless anyway? You think there is never an empty footpath and a busy road at the same time? People have common sense, I'd rather they use it than have unnecessary restrictions.

Fact of the matter is, cars are going to kill cyclists more often than cyclists are going to kill pedestrians, and cyclists being on the road antagonise cars even when acting in accordance with the law, with the result of cars driving more aggressively or trying to overtake unsafely or switching lanes on top of cyclists. I know because I cycle and have witnessed this behaviour.

Cyclists should ride on roads where both lanes are not occupied or a bike lane is provided. Otherwise it should be up to them. If there were bike lanes everywhere and they weren't ignored like the few I see are, I may think differently.

 

[Something Amyss]

Also, and importantly, the cyclist is as likely to be injured as the person they hit, which makes them much more likely to pay attention.

See, logically, I'd think that would also apply to the streets where they are already supposed to be. Yet bikers don't pay attention there, where the lethality is much higher and primarily on them.

I've been hit by cyclists twice while stationary, and that's just collisions and just me and just stationary in my vehicle.

 

[Darknacht]

Bikes should be in bike lanes, if there are no bike lanes then too bad. Cars can't drive on foot paths just because there are no roads in an area and pedestrians can't walk in the road just because there are no sidewalks in the area, bikes should not be able to ride on sidewalks or roads just because there are on bike lanes in an area.

 

[zumbledum]

i spent about a decade cycling to work when i was younger, come down on both sides of this really, cyclists should use the road and for the main i did , there was a 100m of pavement i had to use to reach a park entrance. but on the other hand i think i was hit by a car a little over a dozen times in those 10 years. and can fully understand people not wanting to cycle on the road.

so really its car drivers that are the problem if the standard of driving was higher it wouldnt be so lethal to cycle on the roads. and we could get the cyclists off the pavement

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Small town cyclist here. We cycle on the sidewalk except when there isn't a sidewalk available or there is foot traffic. Then we swap over to the pavement. There is so little traffic here that the only real rules are yield to pedestrians.

 

[Esotera]

We really need bike lanes everywhere, as then people will stop cycling on the pavement. Cyclists face a lot more risks than most other vehicles on the road, as there are always a couple of cars that will dangerously overtake you, and cars that just won't look out for you at all.

It's crazy putting bikes in the same lanes that have big lumps of metal travelling at anywhere up to 60mph. Dedicated bike lanes is the number one way to increase the use of bikes.

 

[PatrickXD]

What's the big issue with cycling on the road? Why is 18 deaths and 450 injuries negligible to you?
I cycle every day along A roads and I've never had any kind of issue. When you start pushing 20 miles an hour on a bike, I don't think you should be on a pavement unless there's a dedicated bike lane. The fact of the matter is that most pavements are very narrow. You and your handlebars are taking up an awful lot of that space. In order to give right of way, you need to move into the side of the road, or maybe even swoop out into the road if there is nowhere to reasonably stop. It is not safe to run into a road. It is definitely not safe to move move out into the road at 10 miles per hour on a bike. It is safer for everyone to just cycle along the road, leaving room for cars to overtake you whilst remaining in their wing mirror. It is also faster and a more efficient use of your energy - as you're not going to have to stop and start so often.

 

[Yopaz]

It's legal here within limits. If there's room on the sidewalks for a bicycle to go without a danger to pedestrians then it's legal. If the sidewalk is crowded you'll either have to go on the road or push your bike.

It does help that we're also getting more and more bicycle lanes to prevent the sidewalk and to reduce the danger from being hit by cars. There needs to be restrictions if they are to go on the sidewalks, but preferably separate lanes as that reduces the risk for both cyclists, pedestrians and cars.

 

[Strazdas]

No.
My country has dedicated bicycle lanes. Look it up. Tell your governments to make some.

my coutrny has dedicated bicycle lanes too. you know what they did? painted some white lines on pavement and called it dedicated bicycle lanes. pedestrians are not allowed to walk on them.
Most of our bycicle specific roads are part of pavement, though most cyclists still use road (illegaly, if there is pavement lane you CANT use the road) beucase the pavement is so awful you will breka your back by the end of the trip.
Actually i think we should bah cyclin on roads becasue this often leads t road accidents. Our drivers think like: "of, your riding a bike in front of me, im going to make sure you have to ride off the road to live"

 

[Rednog]

My honest feelings about it, bike path of fuck off.
I spent 4 years on a college campus that was on a lake shore and I saw the most egregious instances of what happens when cyclists stick to side walks instead of the road. They run people down, weave through people, speed down the sidewalk and ring their damn bell as if it is a magic sound that will make people dive out of their way, etc.
The logic behind cyclists is just dumb, so it's not safe for you to be on the road, so make it less safe for pedestrians on sidewalks, real nice.
And before someone goes "oh well but I'm a safe cyclist", that's great, but too bad that there is a sizable chunk (if not the majority) who are not.

 

[Kaltazraza]

No no no, cyclists on the sidewalk is not a good idea, if they had a speed limit they would break it, if I saw it I would trip them with my umbrella.
Yes, if cycling on the sidewalk would be legal, so should stopping the cyclist be, they have their own road in most places in Denmark, so they should keep to it, I do it's not that hard. Even so several times a week I see other cyclists driving in the wrong side of the road, once I even saw one driving in the wrong side for at least 2 miles, and when she finally changed to the right side, she went up on the sidewalk when there was an at least 1 meter designated path for cycles in both sides of the road, even so she did not use it, and it fuels my rage far beyond whats normal for me.
Another time I saw a pair of girls, using the bicycle path in the wrong side of the road!
In the second largest city in Denmark, driving in the wrong side of the road uphill, against the traffic, not giving a fuck and driving besides each other, filling the lane, and not even yielding to the other cyclist, those who are supposed to drive there, but laughing at them.
I wish I could just legally knock them off their bikes when they don't follow the rules.

So no, NO cyclists on the sidewalks.

 

[Sofus]

I live in Denmark and I can happily say that we don't have as many of the crazy problems that can be seen in just about every other country.

Sidewalks are for walking.
Cycling lanes are for cycling (and slow moving scooters).
Roads are for cars (if there are no cycling lanes then 60 cm at the edge of the road is for cycling).

 

[Kaymish]

cyclists are a menace on the road i had a cyclist dash in front of me and then round the corner and get hit by a truck and none of the bike lobbies will admit that cyclists are arrogant, foolhardy and selfish no instead we have signs up saying leave 1.5 meters for bikes road is less than 10 meters wide which is not enough for 2 cars and a cyclist riding in the middle of it and it doesn't help when they are riding around in packs with 3 or 4 abreast sometimes

so i am all for cyclists off the road and on the foot path (or in a gas chamber) pedestrians don't use them anyway but those restrictions are good for the occasional time a cyclist encounters a pedestrian on the footpath... and for pissing the Lycra wearing tyrants off

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

This thread makes me scared to cycle anywhere. And since im a poor student who cant afford a car i dont really have any other choice when i need to get about and get some food. Well fuck me i guess for not being able to pay 4 grand a year for a car?

Heres what i do. I cycle mostly on the pavement(sidewalk) because its usually REALLY freaking empty where i live. If i see another person coming at all i get off my bike and walk it until i am past them. If its crowded i walk it fullstop until i reach a road. The lovely thing about bikes is i can get off them and become slower and safer when i choose to. So i always opt to do that if in doubt. If i can pass a single person with at LEAST one persons worth of space between that ill do so but slow down.

I hate cycling in the roads because even when i obey the rules i feel damn unsafe. People pass me while cars are in the other lane and slide right past me with little room. It makes me really edgy and nervous. Having looked it up apparently im entitled to as much room as a person would give a car when over taking (an entire lanes space) but no one EVER EVER EVER EVER obeys this. I have to cycle about 5 cm from the curb and im passed about 10 CM to my side by cars speeding past. Its freaking terrifying. Traffic lights are the worst. I cant stick to the curb then, i have to push off as fast as the car in front does or people get irate. Ive started planning where the lights are and dismounting when they are nearby and walking past them. I then find an appropriate place further on and rejoin traffic when i can.

I dont feel welcome or safe anywhere on my bike except cycle lanes which are pretty rare in my small town and to be frank i constantly feel like im being hated just because i need to get somewhere and cant afford a car. Sorry i guess?

Well considering the cycalists were banging on his windows while he was driving with his kid and he gunned it to get away from some violent folk, nope no pity.

If im ever in a crowd and some of them act violently towards me im allowed to bash my way out with a blunt object correct? And if you happen to be in that same crowd while im smashing people out the way with my crowbar you take it in the face i guess you get the fuck over it. No sympathy for you just a face full of blunt steel. You shouldnt be in my way in a crowd where someone else frightened me.

Heres my idea. Use your brain and apply context when judging a cyclist. Is he/she being an idiot right now? Is he cycling on an empty pavement? Whats currently the best option for everyone? Dont just make assumptions and sweeping generalizations when you can judge from person to person. If i was knocked off my bike intentionally for the crime of cycling in the wrong place, while being a danger to no one , just on principle id attempt to bleed you dry enough to afford a car. Id press those charges so hard you wouldnt believe it.

 

[7moreDead_v1legacy]

So much hate for cyclists...We can't win.☼

When I commute on my bike I have to mix it up with roads/pavements.

Neither of which are great. On the road I got jackasses cutting me up, pulling out in front of me, getting pissy at me cause their isn't enough room to pass me etc etc.

When I do have to hop onto the pavement I ride as close to the curb as possible, I slow right the fuck down/stop behind people and ask to be excused if there isn't enough space to pass safely.

But even then you get abuse even when being considerate...

No cycle lanes up my end of the world. But the places I do go which have them usually no point in them as you have cars parked on them, people driving with half their cars in the lane, people walking in it.

☼And for every good cyclist around you get about 3 jerk off ones that tarnish the rep of the others.

On topic yeah I feel we should be allowed to ride on pavements without people yelling at us it's a crime every 10 bloody yards.