Poll: Darth Vader: Lawful or Chaotic?

[Sanctus Hospes]

So I need a popular vote to settle something between my roommate and I. We were discussing the other day whether Darth Vader is Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil, according to the Dungeons & Dragons alignment system.
The guidelines:
1. No prequel material counts when discussing his development as a character. Everything involving Vader must be based off pre-1999 Star Wars lore.
2. For those of you who have read them, all books, comics and other media may be taken into account (assuming they were published before 1999).

 

[socialtangent]

Vader is (obviously) evil, and he performs said evil actions to preserve Palpatine's order. Therefore, Lawful Evil.

 

[Sonicron]

The guy is trying to enforce existing law. How the hell did you even manage to debate this question?

 

[Tanis]

Gotta go with whatever 'does whatever he wants, because he's a sissy'.

 

[Yureina]

I'd say Lawful on this. Pretty much everyone else has said that too.

 

[Sanctus Hospes]

Yes, he follows Palpatine to the letter, imply Lawful.

However, he does it because he has nothing left to lose. Much in the same way Arthas followed the Lich King without question because Frostmourne had consumed his soul. Vader himself was filled with rage and vengeance. He hunted Jedi, committed genocide, and even slew children because pain was the only thing he had left and he passed it on to others.

I'm just saying it depends on how you view his allegiance to Palpatine. And I don't believe for a second that before Luke showed up Vader had any plans of usurping Palpatine. He had no reason to.

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

Easy way of looking at it

Lawful Evil - Darth Vader
Neutral Evil - Alex DeLarge/Burgess
Chaotic Evil - The Joker

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

In the Star Wars Universe, the Imperial world is Law. Stormtroopers are usually Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral.

Luke (and most Jedis) are Chaotic Good, Han starts as CE but goes to CG. Darth Maul is LN but DV is definitely LE.

If Greedo shoots first, that makes Han's character arc NG(Not bothered) -> CN (Wait, what's his motivation)-> CG (Oh he's back again). If he shoots first, he goes CE (only worried about money) -> CN (Only in it for the reward) -> CG (Worried about the Empire)

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

The Empire was a strict, well ordered police-state. Palpatine ruled with an iron fist in the shape of Darth Vader - how can the enforcer of the Emperor's will be anything other than Lawful Evil?

 

[Macgyvercas]

In the Star Wars Universe, the Imperial world is Law. Stormtroopers are usually Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral.

Luke (and most Jedis) are Chaotic Good, Han starts as CE but goes to CG. Darth Maul is LN but DV is definitely LE.

If Greedo shoots first, that makes Han's character arc NG(Not bothered) -> CN (Wait, what's his motivation)-> CG (Oh he's back again). If he shoots first, he goes CE (only worried about money) -> CN (Only in it for the reward) -> CG (Worried about the Empire)

I applaud the sheer amount of nerd in that statement, my good man. Though I'm still trying to figure out how Stormtroopers could be Lawful Good. Isn't the Empire objectively evil? Therefore, wouldn't the people who follow it be Lawful Evil (including Vader)? Don't forget that Palpatine's policies are racist, speciesist, and humanocentric. Not to mention wiping out whole populations and ruling through fear.

 

[Agayek]

In the Star Wars Universe, the Imperial world is Law. Stormtroopers are usually Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral.

Luke (and most Jedis) are Chaotic Good, Han starts as CE but goes to CG. Darth Maul is LN but DV is definitely LE.

If Greedo shoots first, that makes Han's character arc NG(Not bothered) -> CN (Wait, what's his motivation)-> CG (Oh he's back again). If he shoots first, he goes CE (only worried about money) -> CN (Only in it for the reward) -> CG (Worried about the Empire)

I'd say Han started as more of a Chaotic Neutral than CE. He's certainly selfish, but he's not evil.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I applaud the sheer amount of nerd in that statement, my good man.

Merci buckets.

Though I'm still trying to figure out how Stormtroopers could be Lawful Good. Isn't the Empire objectively evil?

Nope, no more than any ruling body. The Empire doesn't have any Evil agendas other than making sure others obey it's law.

No slavery, no (or little) corruption, it's only persecution is against the Jedi (who are terrorists). Objectively, the Empire is Lawful Neutral.

Take a look at the two Stormtroopers who are looking for droids. They're patrolling a known "hive of scum and villany" looking for stolen droids that carry terrorist targets. Couldn't you easily ascribe to them Lawful Good? At a stretch, Paladins. They certainly aren't doing anything wrong.

Therefore, wouldn't the people who follow it be Lawful Evil (including Vader)? Don't forget that Palpatine's policies are racist, speciesist, and humanocentric. Not to mention wiping out whole populations and ruling through fear.

Any Governing body has to be Lawful Neutral because turning to Evil destroys it through Corruption, and turning to Good destroys it through sheer lack of resources.
Vader/Palpatine/Tarkin are certainly Evil but the Empire itself isn't. Just misguided.

I'd say Han started as more of a Chaotic Neutral than CE. He's certainly selfish, but he's not evil.

Let's just say we'd like to avoid any Imperial entanglements.

Well, that's the trick, isn't it? And it's going to cost you something extra. Ten thousand in advance.
We haven't that much with us. But we could pay you two thousand now, plus fifteen when we reach Alderaan.
Seventeen, huh! (Blackmail, extortion and smuggling to the good guys: Sure he's not evil?)

Koona t'chuta, Solo?
Yes, Greedo. I was just going to see your boss. Tell Jabba I've got his money.
Soong peetch alay. Mala trom pee chock makacheesa. Jabba wah ning chee kosthpa murishani tytung we wanya yoskhah. Ha, ha, ha. Chas kee nyowyee koo chooskoo.
Yeah, but this time I've got the money.
Keh lee chalya chulkah in ting cooing koosooah.
[stealthily going for his blaster] I don't have it *with* me. Tell Jabba... {CE for sure)
Jabba hari tish ding. Song kul rul yay pul-yaya ulwan spastika kushunkoo oponowa tweepi.
Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you think I had a choice?
Klop Jabba poo pah. Goo paknee ata pankpa.
Over my dead body!
Uth laynuma. Chespo kutata kreesta krenko, nyakoska!
Yeah, I'll bet you have. *FERZAZZ*

Han: It is for *me*, sister. Look, I ain't in this for your revolution, and I'm not in it for you, Princess. I expect to be well paid. *I'm* in it for the money. (CE-CN)

Luke: So. You got your reward and you're just leaving, then?
Han Solo: That's right, yeah. Got some old debts I gotta pay off with this stuff. Even if I didn't, you don't think I'd be fool enough to stick around here, do you? (CN)

Han Solo: What good's a reward if you ain't around to use it? Besides, attacking that battle station ain't my idea of courage. It's more like... suicide.
Luke: All right. Well, take care of yourself, Han. I guess that's what you're best at, isn't it?
[starts to storm off]
Han Solo: Hey, Luke... may the Force be with you.
[Luke exits. Chewie growls]
Han Solo: What're you lookin' at? I know what I'm doin'. (CN-CG)

Han Solo: YAHOOO!
[the Millenium Falcon appears]
Tie Fighter pilot: Look out!
[Han fires again, the second fighter collides with Vader's, sending him careening away]
Han Solo: You're all clear, kid, now let's *blow* this thing and go home! (CG)


But it still makes FAR more sense if he shoots first

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

SNIP

Please dear god please tell me you typed all that dialogue from memory

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

SNIP

Please dear god please tell me you typed all that dialogue from memory

I'm a little rusty on my Rodese, but most of it was.

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

SNIP

Please dear god please tell me you typed all that dialogue from memory

I'm a little rusty on my Rodese, but most of it was.

I'm not a huge Star Wars fan myself, but your nerdy memory banks are amazing, I have trouble remembering famous lines from movies...

 

[DeadEy3]

He is fighting the "rebels"
... Lawful

 

[leonnasagawa]

Definitely lawful, he can get a bit destructive when he's angry but everything he does is to preserve order.

 

[Albino Boo]

In the Star Wars Universe, the Imperial world is Law. Stormtroopers are usually Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral.

Yeah thats not an orphanage its clearly a dwarf terrorist hideout. OPEN FIRE!