Poll: Dear Esther- Should it be considered a game?

[Kahunaburger]

Isn't there that bit at the end where

Spoiler

you can throw yourself off a lighthouse?

I might be mistaken, though, because if I want to walk around for two hours listening to someone being pretentious, I'll do it IRL with like a podcast or something

Spoiler: Nope

When you approach it, the game takes over, climbs you up and throws you off.

There's not a single moment of interaction in the game, all you can do is walk around and there's only one right path (you can diverge from it a few times, but your only reward is the extra several minutes you need to walk back - there's no running).

I didn't hate it. It's an... interesting little story and I liked some of it. It works much better as a mod than a game with an actual price tag on it though. It is not a game however, as I've said, there's nothing interactive about it, it's just a short story set into a game environment with a bit of randomness (the story is triggered at several points, but random lines are triggered, so playing it again isn't exactly the same and someone can get a bit of a different experience than you, despite you both doing the same thing).

Wow, I didn't know that. So in other words playing it is basically an identical experience to watching someone playing it on youtube haha.

 

[DustyDrB]

The exact same topic (sans the poll, perhaps) came up a couple of weeks back when Dear Esther came out on Steam. I recall people were trying to define "game" which came after failing to define "video game" (because that was just a game but on a computing system of some sort), which briefly went into defining terms used in the definition of "game" (what is a goal, etc.). I don't remember what level of definitions did people hit there. And I'm too lazy to look it up.

I think we can agree that it can be called "interactive entertainment" and we can toss in "video" or something to signify it's related to computers. Also, we can apply the same label to all other video games. And agree that the medium is evolving.

Sounds like most piracy discussions here. They never talk about the issue, but just keep trying to come up with the best analogy. "OK...so say it's like a farm? No? A restaurant? The hundred acre wood?"

 

[Seneschal]

I think everyone is dancing around the point. Dictionary definitions of "game" are irrelevant; I don't think any of us play games just because they're in the same category as sports, chess and twister. We draw some value from gaming, a value that doesn't stem just from the rules, the conflict, or the challenge.

Doubting Dear Esther's status as a game isn't a semantic quarrel, just like homophobes aren't really worried about human procreation when they gay-bash. It's merely a case of people being uncomfortable with something that changes the status quo, so they argue semantics when the product obviously still belongs to the same hobby and is played for the same reasons (exploration, emotional investment, catharsis) as all other videogames.

It's also a matter of degrading other people's experiences - if they didn't play a "game", then they don't get to bring up the non-game in question in discussions and "it doesn't count" when arguing about the nature of the medium. It's also vehemently exclusive and imposes one group's definition of the medium ("a game is something where you shoot, punch, jump or talk at things, and watching/moving does not equal interacting") over everyone else's, presumably also telling them that they didn't actually enjoy the thing they enjoyed.

 

[Vrach]

Wow, I didn't know that. So in other words playing it is basically an identical experience to watching someone playing it on youtube haha.

Pretty much, yeah. Just hold down the W key while watching it on YT and you'll get about the same experience.

 

[McMarbles]

Is "pretentious, navel-gazing crap" a genre? If it is, then we can call it a game.

 

[dontlooknow]

Why doesn't anybody regard narrative as an interactive feature of a game? Of course its a game: it requires you to move from place to place, driving the development of the narrative, characterisation, and, ultimately, the 'plot' of the story you're experiencing. Your own actions affect the feedback that you receive from the software, in the same way that when you play Call of Duty or Shadow of the Colossus, your actions are reflected in the game's set narrative.

 

[Xanadu84]

The definition, "a series of meaningful choices" is sometimes used to define games. Clearly, there a few things in existence that don't fit this definition. The weakness of this definition? Its not broad enough. It doesn't include games like candyland.

If you accept that candyland is a game, which I think we all do, then Dear Esther must be a game. What would exclude it? Candyland has the same choices. There being only 1 real choice doesn't make tic tac toe not a game after you solve it. It has a very different core aesthetic from normal games, but it is still firmly in the realm of game.

 

[Smertnik]

A better question would be, Does it even matter?

It's all just pointless semantics, as I see it. What difference does it make whether you call Dear Esther a game or visual novel or whatever? It's still going to be sold on Steam, people who liked it are going to continue to like it and I'm going to continue to find it bloody boring, regardless of whether it's officially treated as a game or not. There're countless people who've been calling visual novels games (or even dating sims *shudder*) for ages and the world still hasn't collapsed.

 

[Hobonicus]

Dear Esther is a video game, there's no way around that. Anyone who says otherwise is using some personal warped impression of how they define a game. Dear Esther is interactive and designed to be interactive. There's no way around that no matter how much you want to draw the line before it.

Saying "it's not much of a game" is pretty accurate, but flat out stating it isn't a game is a slippery slope based on arbitrary standards. It is a game. Period. Live with that and discuss the game itself instead of its label.

Or, try arguing whether its style holds up as a game or not.