Poll: deciding about abortion.

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

If the father wants an abortion but the mother wants to keep the baby, he shouldn't have to pay childcare.

If other way round I'd say the woman calls the shots, she's giving birth after all.

This.

I also say he has no rights to see the child as he didn't want it. Probably didn't need mentioning but just to clarify.

Yeah, I agree on that.

Me too.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Mein gotte! Ze opinion Nazis are owt in forz today.
Berethond expressed an opinion, why do any of so desperately you feel the need to shoot it down?


Anyway, provided she is capable of making it, the decision is always the mother's.
Regards child support (alimony), the father should always pay*. If you really wanted to avoid paying it you should have used a condom.

*Possible exception to this is if the woman used deception or coercion to become pregnant in the first place, but then it's a case by case thing.

 

[xxnightlawxx]

Abortion should be decided by the couple together at any age because they r the ones that r having the kid

 

[Zildjin81]

Circumstance largely.

Though when I was I think 16-17 my then girlfriend got pregnent by me. She did not want the child. I said I would raise it as I have large (5 siblings and two very nice parents) loving family who would help me if she refused to raise it. Instead she went to have an abortion. When I got upset at her about this she hung up the phone and shot herself in the head and died, convinced her life had been ruined. I would've had a daughter.

Whoa, didn't expect that story to end the way it did.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

 

[fenrizz]

Spoiler: hidden text

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Also, according to the law, murder is illegal. Abortion on the other hand is legal.
Meaning that abortion is not murder according to the law.

 

[Berethond]

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Words can't describe how wrong that statement is.

Also, how are you accessing a computer from the dark ages?

Wow.
Totally awesome way to respect my views, man.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Spoiler: hidden text

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Also, according to the law, murder is illegal. Abortion on the other hand is legal.
Meaning that abortion is not murder according to the law.

That's a simple way of explaining it.

 

[pffh]

Anyway, provided she is capable of making it, the decision is always the mother's.
Regards child support (alimony), the father should always pay*. If you really wanted to avoid paying it you should have used a condom.

But condoms are only 99% effective meaning that once every hundred times you use one (on average) the girl could become pregnant.

OT: The couple should decide together, if one of the people do not want the child then the other person should raise it and the one that didn't want it shouldn't have to pay anything AND shouldn't have to take any part in the child's upbringing.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

Abortion should be decided by the couple together at any age because they r the ones that r having the kid

I agree. It's the father's choice as he has to pay for the baby (In these countries you mention where the father has to pay for the child to be brought up), and it's also the mother's choice for obvious reasons.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Who are "we"? You seem to hold your opinion as universally accepted truth.
No, we don't all agree upon when life starts, scientists would say at conception. Others, like you, would say later. That's why we have these discussions. Because there is no clear cut line in the sand as to when you're alive or not. Being born is just the act of you being ousted from your mothers womb. Nothing more.

By "we" I mean our culture. If we did what "scientists" (I'm assuming you mean all of them) think then either our birthdays would be 9 months earlier or we'd celebrate conceptiondays too.

 

[Bigfatstupid]

I think abortion is a great option to have. It's sad to see kids grow up on the streets or thrown into an orphanage because a couple of morons weren't ready to be parents or aren't able to raise it properly and the kid becomes an idiotic thug.

And there are certain circumstances were the baby could be killing the mother. So abortion is also a good way to save lives.

Not to mention, it's cheap and easy.

But to save yourserlf the hassle, just use a condom people.

 

[fenrizz]

Petty theft gets you three days in jail. Grand larceny can get you several years in prison. Is petty theft not stealing?

Yes it is. That is why it is, like grand larceny, illegal.
It's just not as severe as grand larceny.

 

[Skreeee]

Abortion should be decided by the couple together at any age because they r the ones that r having the kid

In most scenarios I would agree, except in the case of teenage pregnancy. In the case of teens, I think the parents of the pregnant girl should at least have a say (I'd include the parents of the dude as well, but in cases that I've been a participant in delving advice on, that's usually not a good idea for various reasons). Of course, that doesn't mean they'll get to necessarily decide for the girl, but will be able to--hopefully--provide a perspective that the girl may be stubbornly ignoring in favor of others (giving it up for adoption when the system's so fucked, actually raising it on her own when she has no money, prospects, or even a complete high school education, yadda, yadda, yadda).

Then again, if most parents and schools seemed to actually provide a decent education on the safety of it all, religions would stop demonizing abortion and the morning after pill (it's not an abortion pill!), and governments would stop providing free housing for young girls who get kncoked up so they can move out of their parents' houses or some immature shit like that, there wouldn't be as much of an issue to it, in my opinion.

Note that I'm talking from an American's perspective here, so some of what I said may not necessarily apply to your area.

 

[fenrizz]

Spoiler: Wall of Text

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Who are "we"? You seem to hold your opinion as universally accepted truth.
No, we don't all agree upon when life starts, scientists would say at conception. Others, like you, would say later. That's why we have these discussions. Because there is no clear cut line in the sand as to when you're alive or not. Being born is just the act of you being ousted from your mothers womb. Nothing more.

By "we" I mean our culture. If we did what "scientists" (I'm assuming you mean all of them) think then either our birthdays would be 9 months earlier or we'd celebrate conceptiondays too.

No, no we wouldn't. I don't remember what the proper term is, but that was a gigantic argumentative fallacy.
Bit of a history lesson for you: Birthdays used to be celebrated 9 months after the actual date of birth. Which helps explain one of the reason Christmas is celebrated in the winter yet Christ was born in the summer.

Actually, we celebrate x-mas in the winter because this is when the sun turns.
And about every pagan religion had some sort of celebration on this day (December 22nd).
Also, a lot of the other holidays cooincide with pagan holidays.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Who are "we"? You seem to hold your opinion as universally accepted truth.
No, we don't all agree upon when life starts, scientists would say at conception. Others, like you, would say later. That's why we have these discussions. Because there is no clear cut line in the sand as to when you're alive or not. Being born is just the act of you being ousted from your mothers womb. Nothing more.

By "we" I mean our culture. If we did what "scientists" (I'm assuming you mean all of them) think then either our birthdays would be 9 months earlier or we'd celebrate conceptiondays too.

No, no we wouldn't. I don't remember what the proper term is, but that was a gigantic argumentative fallacy.
Bit of a history lesson for you: Birthdays used to be celebrated 9 months after the actual date of birth. Which helps explain one of the reason Christmas is celebrated in the winter yet Christ was born in the summer.

Yea ok, I'm regretting clicking this thread now. We're locked in an endless argument which will just end badly methinks.

Plus, I'm lazy and tired, I think Fenrizz will keep arguing though.

Also: That'd mean Christ was born in the Spring. Also, when did we find out when he was born? I thought we just assumed Christians latched onto the old midwinter festival idea.

 

[fix-the-spade]

But condoms are only 99% effective meaning that once every hundred times you use one (on average) the girl could become pregnant.

My view is that that is a risk you take, if you are not prepared to take responsability for your actions then you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Spoiler: Wall of Text

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Who are "we"? You seem to hold your opinion as universally accepted truth.
No, we don't all agree upon when life starts, scientists would say at conception. Others, like you, would say later. That's why we have these discussions. Because there is no clear cut line in the sand as to when you're alive or not. Being born is just the act of you being ousted from your mothers womb. Nothing more.

By "we" I mean our culture. If we did what "scientists" (I'm assuming you mean all of them) think then either our birthdays would be 9 months earlier or we'd celebrate conceptiondays too.

No, no we wouldn't. I don't remember what the proper term is, but that was a gigantic argumentative fallacy.
Bit of a history lesson for you: Birthdays used to be celebrated 9 months after the actual date of birth. Which helps explain one of the reason Christmas is celebrated in the winter yet Christ was born in the summer.

Actually, we celebrate x-mas in the winter because this is when the sun turns.
And about every heathen religion had some sort of celebration on this day (December 22nd).
Also, a lot of the other holidays cooincide with heathen holidays.

Why do you use the term heathen?

Pagan's probably a better word?

 

[Stevedave00]

I'm pro-choice. It's the woman's body, it's her own choice.

 

[fenrizz]

Spoiler: Wall of Text

Abortion is murder.
So....... neither.

Umm, you have to be alive to be murdered, and to be alive you have to be born.

If we measured life from before birth it'd get confusing.

Children have heart beats before they are born you know.

But have they been born? We consider birth to be the start of life and to die you have to live. Thus abortion can't be murder.

Who are "we"? You seem to hold your opinion as universally accepted truth.
No, we don't all agree upon when life starts, scientists would say at conception. Others, like you, would say later. That's why we have these discussions. Because there is no clear cut line in the sand as to when you're alive or not. Being born is just the act of you being ousted from your mothers womb. Nothing more.

By "we" I mean our culture. If we did what "scientists" (I'm assuming you mean all of them) think then either our birthdays would be 9 months earlier or we'd celebrate conceptiondays too.

No, no we wouldn't. I don't remember what the proper term is, but that was a gigantic argumentative fallacy.
Bit of a history lesson for you: Birthdays used to be celebrated 9 months after the actual date of birth. Which helps explain one of the reason Christmas is celebrated in the winter yet Christ was born in the summer.

Actually, we celebrate x-mas in the winter because this is when the sun turns.
And about every heathen religion had some sort of celebration on this day (December 22nd).
Also, a lot of the other holidays cooincide with heathen holidays.

Why do you use the term heathen?

Pagan's probably a better word?

You are absolutely right. Guess I picked the wrong word.
Will correct it now.