Poll: Do games need beefier women?
- Thread starter Drathnoxis
- Start date
One of the little things I enjoyed about Saints Row III is that the muscle slider actually works on female characters. Not just a little, either. You can make her pretty ripped if you like without resorting to mods.
I installed a muscle mod in Skyrim because it didn't seem right that my female Nord greatsword wielder had tootsie roll limbs. You do not swing a claymore all day without building serious arms and shoulders. Of course, with the mod installed, she became a veiny, slab-sided, freakishly proportioned manbeast, far beyond what any woman -- or most men -- could attain. That's not quite right either.
Short answer, yes. Let me make muscly women.
I installed a muscle mod in Skyrim because it didn't seem right that my female Nord greatsword wielder had tootsie roll limbs. You do not swing a claymore all day without building serious arms and shoulders. Of course, with the mod installed, she became a veiny, slab-sided, freakishly proportioned manbeast, far beyond what any woman -- or most men -- could attain. That's not quite right either.
Short answer, yes. Let me make muscly women.
I think of it this way: the games industry currently loves its Military Shooter and Fantasy genres, right? In many of those situations, you're some kind of soldier, right? When women are brought into either of these situations, it doesn't make a lot of sense for either case that the women involved wouldn't have some musculature, especially for the war shooters (fantasy can get away with it a little bit, but even then your leading lady is carrying around swords and shields most of the time, so she's definitely built some muscle along the way).
To some degree, it matters a lot based on whatever genre is being presented (Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite wouldn't make a lot of sense but then again...), but for at least the War Shooter and Fantasy settings, it doesn't make a lot of sense that small, petite women are running around with guns and swords.
That said, it shouldn't matter anyway, you can fit a thin/thick/muscular/fat man/woman/eldritch horror into any genre, and we're simply not exploiting that fact. And if you have a game with fully customisable characters, you literally have no excuse for not putting beef on your ladies.
To some degree, it matters a lot based on whatever genre is being presented (Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite wouldn't make a lot of sense but then again...), but for at least the War Shooter and Fantasy settings, it doesn't make a lot of sense that small, petite women are running around with guns and swords.
That said, it shouldn't matter anyway, you can fit a thin/thick/muscular/fat man/woman/eldritch horror into any genre, and we're simply not exploiting that fact. And if you have a game with fully customisable characters, you literally have no excuse for not putting beef on your ladies.
I have even worse luck. You can find a mod for beefy girls made by some guy with a fetish for wrestling chicks. Me, I've got a thing for wispy men who don't have a visible muscle in their body, but not so thin that you can see any bones either. It's hard to find mods that make men look well...less manly.
Interesting women. Visually, all diversity is good, but I'd prefer more ugly characters on both sides, since unlike Hollywood, games don't have to be constrained by a good looking protagonist in order to sell well.
I mean, people made a big deal out of that new Overwatch character, but she's still good looking as her face was constructed in line with facial symmetry and whatnot: she still looks attractive, just in a slightly different way. Where's my ugly characters? Ugly dudes? Ugly women?
I feel like gaming needs to either create or foster a sort of B-movie subgenre. Hotline Miami already kind of goes there, so I'd like to see more cases where we explore human physique to either end of the spectrum for both genders.
I mean, people made a big deal out of that new Overwatch character, but she's still good looking as her face was constructed in line with facial symmetry and whatnot: she still looks attractive, just in a slightly different way. Where's my ugly characters? Ugly dudes? Ugly women?
I feel like gaming needs to either create or foster a sort of B-movie subgenre. Hotline Miami already kind of goes there, so I'd like to see more cases where we explore human physique to either end of the spectrum for both genders.
If it's a character gen?
Eh, why the hell not? More variety is good.
For Skyrim in particular? Mods. Mods are your friend. But then, there's already a nice variety just in the species. Personally, I play Argonian females.
Because lizard ladies.
I can tell ya right now though, I wouldn't be interested in playing a character I didn't think was either neat/cool or attractive.
Eh, why the hell not? More variety is good.
For Skyrim in particular? Mods. Mods are your friend. But then, there's already a nice variety just in the species. Personally, I play Argonian females.
Because lizard ladies.
I can tell ya right now though, I wouldn't be interested in playing a character I didn't think was either neat/cool or attractive.
First of all, asking whether games "need" something is not the right way to go. The only people who can decide what a game "needs" are the developers themselves.
Second of all, ask whether the time and resources needed to get the feature you want would be worth it in the end. How many people would it appeal do? Does it justify the time and expense needed? There are tons of games/game features/character designs that I'd personally like to see, but I know they'll never be made because they wouldn't appeal to very many people beyond me.
Third, regarding "variety". A game can always have more variety. No game will ever appeal to absolutely every single niche/fetish/etc when it comes to character creation. There will always be some group that says "Hey! What about us?". People need to stop being so obsessed with trying to appeal to everyone. Trying to do so just waters down everything else. Choose who your audience is, and focus all your efforts on them.
As for "beefy" women specifically:
Thing is, "beefy" can mean many different things to different people. Someone on the previous page posted a pic of a female Olympic weightlifter. Frankly, I found her repulsive. On the other hand, I also appreciate most fitness model-type physiques. Basically, I'm okay with visible muscles on a woman as long as she still has a distinctly feminine body shape. When I can no longer easily tell that a character is a woman, that's where I draw the line.
Personally, I have to wonder whether the people extolling "beefy" women are genuinely interested in them, or are only interested in them because they're different from the norm. Lately, it seems like a feature or design that "goes against the norm" in some way has become a positive quality in its own right. "Unique" does not automatically equal "better". A game's feature or design should be judged solely on its own merits, not whether society or most people in a given group like it or not. I've seen several feminists say that a certain female character design is "good" solely because she "doesn't give most straight guys boners". Yes, they said that in so many words. If you're judging a character by how much a social group doesn't like him/her rather than how much you like him/her, that's pretty messed up.
Second of all, ask whether the time and resources needed to get the feature you want would be worth it in the end. How many people would it appeal do? Does it justify the time and expense needed? There are tons of games/game features/character designs that I'd personally like to see, but I know they'll never be made because they wouldn't appeal to very many people beyond me.
Third, regarding "variety". A game can always have more variety. No game will ever appeal to absolutely every single niche/fetish/etc when it comes to character creation. There will always be some group that says "Hey! What about us?". People need to stop being so obsessed with trying to appeal to everyone. Trying to do so just waters down everything else. Choose who your audience is, and focus all your efforts on them.
As for "beefy" women specifically:
Thing is, "beefy" can mean many different things to different people. Someone on the previous page posted a pic of a female Olympic weightlifter. Frankly, I found her repulsive. On the other hand, I also appreciate most fitness model-type physiques. Basically, I'm okay with visible muscles on a woman as long as she still has a distinctly feminine body shape. When I can no longer easily tell that a character is a woman, that's where I draw the line.
Personally, I have to wonder whether the people extolling "beefy" women are genuinely interested in them, or are only interested in them because they're different from the norm. Lately, it seems like a feature or design that "goes against the norm" in some way has become a positive quality in its own right. "Unique" does not automatically equal "better". A game's feature or design should be judged solely on its own merits, not whether society or most people in a given group like it or not. I've seen several feminists say that a certain female character design is "good" solely because she "doesn't give most straight guys boners". Yes, they said that in so many words. If you're judging a character by how much a social group doesn't like him/her rather than how much you like him/her, that's pretty messed up.
on a game like Skyrim who care honestly, you never see your character anyways :/
on MMO's I guess it would be alright but at the end of the day I'm far more interested on having cool looking clothes/armor than beefy arms... I think the bigger problem is adapting far too much realism to FANTASY games
on MMO's I guess it would be alright but at the end of the day I'm far more interested on having cool looking clothes/armor than beefy arms... I think the bigger problem is adapting far too much realism to FANTASY games
Why is everyone so focused on the word "need?"someguy1231 said:
Customers (and possible customers) can very much decide what a game "needs" for them to buy it.
To quote Joe Dirt, "It's not what you want, it's the consumer."
There will always be fans who aren't totally satisfied no matter how much diversity and features are crammed into something; it's impossible to please everyone. What people need to understand is one of the most effective ways to create appeal is for art to imitate life, and Hulk Hogan-like women just don't appeal to a lot of people.
Even so, Skyrim isn't a good example. I can't expect a game to go the extra mile on appeal when character design was so unappealing. There are gobs of beautifying mods for Skyrim and Fallout games for good reason.
Even so, Skyrim isn't a good example. I can't expect a game to go the extra mile on appeal when character design was so unappealing. There are gobs of beautifying mods for Skyrim and Fallout games for good reason.
YESSSSS.
APPEAL TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
I mean... yeah, sure. Beefy ladies exist, so there's no reason they shouldn't in games, what with women in games not being there soley to appeal to horny men.
Right?
APPEAL TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
I mean... yeah, sure. Beefy ladies exist, so there's no reason they shouldn't in games, what with women in games not being there soley to appeal to horny men.
Right?
I'm fine with it, although women naturally tend to build less muscle than men, so there's some real world basis for making females slighter on average.
And before anyone points out the obvious, I'm not saying fantasy games should confine themselves to realism. Obviously they can do whatever they want. I'm just saying there is a basis, outside of sexism, why one might choose differentiate between genders in this way.
And before anyone points out the obvious, I'm not saying fantasy games should confine themselves to realism. Obviously they can do whatever they want. I'm just saying there is a basis, outside of sexism, why one might choose differentiate between genders in this way.
"Need" is a little strong, but it'd be nice to have.
I'm pretty sick of women crammed into the roles of medics, rogues, mages, archers and "high dexterity" roles of the team. It's rare, and welcome to see the option of a woman being in the role of a Tank, or brawn type DD.
I'm pretty sick of women crammed into the roles of medics, rogues, mages, archers and "high dexterity" roles of the team. It's rare, and welcome to see the option of a woman being in the role of a Tank, or brawn type DD.
Holy smokes, I never knew the word "need" would be such a contentious issue. 16 people so far dispute the term "need", but most agree none the less.
I only meant "do games need beefier women?" as in "in your opinion do games need beefier women?" as in "would you personally like to see beefier women in games."
I had no idea that "need" was such a serious word. And here I was saying things like "I just need to run to the store for a pack of gum," and "I need a little ketchup for these fries." Good thing my eyes have been opened to what grave word it actually is.
Either that or the Escapist is full of pedants.
I only meant "do games need beefier women?" as in "in your opinion do games need beefier women?" as in "would you personally like to see beefier women in games."
I had no idea that "need" was such a serious word. And here I was saying things like "I just need to run to the store for a pack of gum," and "I need a little ketchup for these fries." Good thing my eyes have been opened to what grave word it actually is.
Either that or the Escapist is full of pedants.
Like many things, as long as it's an option, I'm all for it. Having more options is always a good thing.
"Fit" females are awesome, but truly beefy/muscular females are a turn-off for me.
But hey, it's a game with a character creator - so devs should feel free to add whatever options they want.
But hey, it's a game with a character creator - so devs should feel free to add whatever options they want.
Being from NZ I always cheer for Valerie Adams, but her body type and proportions look plain weird. If she cut her hair short and lost the earrings, most people would probably mistake her for a buff guy. She's a walking tank lol.DementedSheep said:but, but, its not realistic!
Not at all.
We actually need more womanish beef.
Seriously though, I don't know if we "need" a strict quota of less conventional looking female characters, but as a sucker for character customization I will say we definitely need the option to be as wonderfully varied or as disgustingly white as we wish.
Captcha: "Which one is food?" - I just told you!
We actually need more womanish beef.
Seriously though, I don't know if we "need" a strict quota of less conventional looking female characters, but as a sucker for character customization I will say we definitely need the option to be as wonderfully varied or as disgustingly white as we wish.
Captcha: "Which one is food?" - I just told you!