Poll: Do you agree with the Black Ops Swastika Ban?

bluepilot

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The symbol in question is very old. It is an inverted form of a symbol used in Buddhism. I think that as time passes the meaning of a symbol can change. Look at Christianity. They use a method a torture and execution as their symbol and not many people find that offensive.

The Nazi symbol is more of a cult movement that a political statement these days anyway.
 

Tomany2

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The Game is rated M, and although the swearing, swastikas, and nude ones are bad and immature, the game is intended for people 17 +, so trearch should just lay off, even with clan tags... the soldiers swear in the main story, and players swear online, so why not swear in clan tags too? personally, the swastika should be allowed, especially since you see it in the zombie maps, and the single player.

P.S. I use the sickle and hammer, so it better not be banned :(
 

Tomany2

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Madara XIII said:
EinTheCorgi said:
Ranorak said:
EinTheCorgi said:
as ive said before take care of the porn people first then get on the "nazis" of hell the KKK and all those other tards
Yeah!

Screw the symbol that represents the death of millions.
Showing a body part is far more offensive.
*face palm* the swastika is just a symbol i can understand banning Hitlers face or something but the symbol is also used by the budist or hindo religion...The more you know
Didn't it stand for peace before the Nazi's came in and ruined it?! I can understand getting rid of the red and white coloring in the back implying it was from the Nazi party, but IDK if just the swastika will still hit off well.
I believe the symbol for peace is pointed the opposite way, but I could be wrong.
 

Benny Blanco

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emeraldrafael said:
Benny Blanco said:
Yeah, but thats the only way i know how to spell it, opr at least the way me grandfather spells it. and maybe, but we were part of a nation then. Shit sucked all around, but it was better then the nazi regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polack
 

emeraldrafael

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Benny Blanco said:
emeraldrafael said:
Benny Blanco said:
Yeah, but thats the only way i know how to spell it, opr at least the way me grandfather spells it. and maybe, but we were part of a nation then. Shit sucked all around, but it was better then the nazi regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polack
I dont need a god damned history lesson on Polacks, I am pokack. FOr the record, its still spelling wrong, according to spell check (which i know its a good thing to go be for things like this), and i hate to see those little red lines. Its like they're mocking me.
 

Benny Blanco

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emeraldrafael said:
Benny Blanco said:
emeraldrafael said:
Benny Blanco said:
Yeah, but thats the only way i know how to spell it, opr at least the way me grandfather spells it. and maybe, but we were part of a nation then. Shit sucked all around, but it was better then the nazi regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polack
I dont need a god damned history lesson on Polacks, I am pokack. FOr the record, its still spelling wrong, according to spell check (which i know its a good thing to go be for things like this), and i hate to see those little red lines. Its like they're mocking me.
I dunno about that, a lot of people don't know their national history, especially the history of the nation their ancestors left to go to the Americas.

Also, I haven't checked, but I don't think the dictionary for spell-checkers usually contain racial slurs.

Imagine how weird it would be if they did...

Especially if they did that annoying "auto-correct" thing that some spell-checkers do...

Especially if you were writing about the former French colony which sits between Algeria, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Benin, Libya and Chad...
 

emeraldrafael

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Benny Blanco said:
Especially if you were writing about the former French colony which sits between Algeria, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Benin, Libya and Chad...
Whihc would be? Sorry, I dont know french's colonies' in Africa. They werent really the focus in my schooling. We focused on Britain and Spanish colonies since the French lose the Seven Years War.

and I guess, but i know mine, or at least a good bit of it, and wikipedia would be the last thing i would ask. Haters and neo nazis would probably target it. *shrugs* I dont trust wikipedia.
 

Benny Blanco

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emeraldrafael said:
Benny Blanco said:
Especially if you were writing about the former French colony which sits between Algeria, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Benin, Libya and Chad...
Whihc would be? Sorry, I dont know french's colonies' in Africa. They werent really the focus in my schooling. We focused on Britain and Spanish colonies since the French lose the Seven Years War.

and I guess, but i know mine, or at least a good bit of it, and wikipedia would be the last thing i would ask. Haters and neo nazis would probably target it. *shrugs* I dont trust wikipedia.
Niger was the West African country to which I was referring.

As for the wikipedia entry, it was illuminating for me as I'd previously assumed that "Polack" was an anglicised version of the Italian word "polacco" meaning a Polish man. On account of how Italians and Italian-Americans are such a politically correct people and would on no account invent new and interesting racial slurs.
 

malestrithe

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Therumancer said:
I explained my position earlier in another thread on the subject.

Freedom of speech does not mean "freedom of speech when I agree with it". Hate is part of human nature, and there is no reason why you should be allowed to hate, and express your hatred.

The big exception to this being during times of conflict, which is what war powers exist for. Right now I've been of the opinion that we should be preventing some of the displays Muslims have been involved in recently (such as burning a poppy in the UK). But then again we're at war right now.

I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me (and the exception that I mentioned), however as I said, freedom of speech works both ways. Once you start censoring hate speech and connected symbols, it's only going to snowball from there. I actually think people involved heavily in XBL multiplayer should be rallying against this, even if they do not care for the symbol or what it stands for.
You are missing another major exception to this, something the Supreme Court has also ruled upon: Public versus private entities.

Free Speech only works in public discourse and does not apply to the private sector. The same Supreme Court that said Free Speech protects speech you hate also said that private entities can put limits to free speech whenever they want to.

Even though it allows the public to use their service, Microsoft not a public entity and is therefore excluded from any discussion of censoring what they want in their privately owned servers.

Now, if X-Box Live was owned and operated by the federal government, then yes, your statement would be accurate. The Supreme Court has said, on numerous occasions, that the government cannot censor speech in times of peace.

Like it or not, your justification does not apply to a privately owned entity like Microsoft.
 

Grimlock Fett

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feather240 said:
Grimlock Fett said:
Most people will only use the swastika to try to offend but anyone who cant take it should probably not be on xbox live or online! Its rough out there!!
feather240 said:
They can do whatever they want, it's their system.

Grimlock Fett said:
feather240 said:
pretentiousname01 said:
People are clearly just using it to piss off others.

That is not what Freedom of speech had in mind. I am also of the mind that the other vulgar things should be banned. At least suspended/warning.

However this is what happens when you give people power. They invariably use it to be giant assholes.
I'm going to make this difficult for you, because I'm going to enjoy it, so without further ado...

What is 'vulgar'?
A man in a hockey mask finger banging an attack dog :'D FTD clan WOOF!!!!
Curse you and your way of escaping debate...




Im pretty sure its vulgar but it made me LOL hard just making it! :D
Well at least you don't have it as your avatar.
Its too BIG :(
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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You are missing another major exception to this, something the Supreme Court has also ruled upon: Public versus private entities.

Free Speech only works in public discourse and does not apply to the private sector. The same Supreme Court that said Free Speech protects speech you hate also said that private entities can put limits to free speech whenever they want to.

Even though it allows the public to use their service, Microsoft not a public entity and is therefore excluded from any discussion of censoring what they want in their privately owned servers.

Now, if X-Box Live was owned and operated by the federal government, then yes, your statement would be accurate. The Supreme Court has said, on numerous occasions, that the government cannot censor speech in times of peace.

Like it or not, your justification does not apply to a privately owned entity like Microsoft.[/quote]

However, at the same time there have also been rulings to the contrary. Keep in mind that when the Federal Goverment went after Ted Turner for trying to create a media monopoly there were free speech issues attached to that and they managed to stop him.

Also it's not "whenever they want to", there are all kind of limitations on that to prevent discrimination and the like. Truthfully when someone already has said something, it becomes an entirely differant matter to censor it, rather than giving them a platform to begin with.

This is why there are so many criticisms on news agencies being slanted by choosing who to give the platform to, and who is going to represent each side of a given debate. Such as picking a well spoken liberal, and choosing a psychotic reverend from Utah to represent the other side... gee, who is going to see more reasonable there?

On the other hand, if the debate doesn't go the way they want it to, they can't just go "OMG we're going to censor this". They can choose not to broadcast, or re-broadcast it, but they can't for example omit parts of what one side is saying because they do not like it.

This is incidently why for a lot of debates, or even commentary, networks are careful to put up disclaimers on how "the opinions expressed here are theirs, and in no way represent our attitudes and beliefs".

See, the thing that a lot of people miss here is that the laws in the US are based on something called "precedent". Laws and Supreme Court rulings are interpeted by the people in lesser courts as they apply to certain cases, and then those rulings become the way the law is interpeted elsewhere in similar situations. This leads to precedents being based on other precedents and then laws turning out far differant from their intention. Perhaps the best example of this is what "Mapp Vs. Ohio" did to US Search and Seizure laws.

I mean you are right in the letter of the root law, but that's not what the laws are anymore. In part, because Supreme Court rulings aside, it would quash fundemental human rights, which is why so many courts have made rulings about it over the years.

To put it in cynical terms even if I generally agree with where this went, the US is a nation where a complex body of laws is being interpeted in the streets by goons with single digit IQs, and then re-interpeted again by minor judicial politicians with their own agendas and an axe to grind. The interpetations of those people being what decides how a law will actually function or what happens to it, not the intent of the people who made the laws to begin with (though people WILL claim the intent of the lawmakers to try and sell their own interpetations during the legal process)

We're getting far afield, but the point is that the exception your mentioning doesn't exist anymore, or at least not in the way it was probably intended. Ironically because I think a lot of people understand the issues of private ownership, but even most Judges think it's ridiculous for private citizens to have more power over other citizens than the goverment does. A point which keep it a major debate to this day.

... and this also means that even if "The Supreme Court" rules in the favor of the games industry in the current conflict, that the battle is NOT going to end. It will turn into precedent wars. Also the "gaming censorship" movement is going to attempt to work through private citizens and PACS to get things done, perhaps with sneaky ways of giving them under the table goverment funding.
 

Doth

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Apr 2, 2009
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People who get oppressed:
Neo-nazis (such as myself)
People with an interest in modern German history, history of warfare, so on.
People who want to be edgy
People that doesn't endorse censorship in any form

People who gains:
...
.....
???
profits?

Seems largely unnecessary doesn't it?
 

malestrithe

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Therumancer said:
[

See, the thing that a lot of people miss here is that the laws in the US are based on something called "precedent". Laws and Supreme Court rulings are interpeted by the people in lesser courts as they apply to certain cases, and then those rulings become the way the law is interpeted elsewhere in similar situations. This leads to precedents being based on other precedents and then laws turning out far differant from their intention. Perhaps the best example of this is what "Mapp Vs. Ohio" did to US Search and Seizure laws.

I mean you are right in the letter of the root law, but that's not what the laws are anymore. In part, because Supreme Court rulings aside, it would quash fundemental human rights, which is why so many courts have made rulings about it over the years.
Can you please cite the precedent that prevents a private person, which extends to corporations btw, from censoring speech on their own private servers?

You have spent a lot of time dancing around the issue and posting hypothetical situations that may or may not happen, but you have not cited the actual precedent that leads you to this conclusion.

Because you are making the positive claim, that free speech can affect privately owned and run servers, it is up to you to prove it.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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malestrithe said:
Therumancer said:
[

See, the thing that a lot of people miss here is that the laws in the US are based on something called "precedent". Laws and Supreme Court rulings are interpeted by the people in lesser courts as they apply to certain cases, and then those rulings become the way the law is interpeted elsewhere in similar situations. This leads to precedents being based on other precedents and then laws turning out far differant from their intention. Perhaps the best example of this is what "Mapp Vs. Ohio" did to US Search and Seizure laws.

I mean you are right in the letter of the root law, but that's not what the laws are anymore. In part, because Supreme Court rulings aside, it would quash fundemental human rights, which is why so many courts have made rulings about it over the years.
Can you please cite the precedent that prevents a private person, which extends to corporations btw, from censoring speech on their own private servers?

You have spent a lot of time dancing around the issue and posting hypothetical situations that may or may not happen, but you have not cited the actual precedent that leads you to this conclusion.

Because you are making the positive claim, that free speech can affect privately owned and run servers, it is up to you to prove it.
Funny, because I clearly remember mentioning how Ted Turner got his attempted monopoly broken up as a supporting example.

Truth be told, I'd probably need a legal library to cite other specific examples, but I used that one because it's publically known and should be easily verified. A lot of arguements have been made on the subject.

As another example I mentioned the current existance of disclaimers being used in programs now for interviews and the like. I don't remember the precedent that lead to that one, but again it's another example that can be verified easily.

Generally speaking the Suprme Court ruling was to address arguements being made for "Equal Time" (which you might have heard of) as I recall. The basic ruling is that a private citizen can't force a privatly owned media source to give them a platform. The idea being that if say someone comes out to speak about minority rights on TV, the TV station is not obligated to give a KKK member equal time to say his piece.
 
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I know they can claim it has historical context, but I see it as dickish to disregard the whole Nazi thing that EVERY OTHER PERSON PLAYING WILL NOTICE.
 

Maerarde

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Oct 27, 2010
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MR T3D said:
Maerarde said:
OK before this thread goes on - The Swastika = A Hindu symbol of peace backwards

Because Hitler was a bad man (lol nice words) he used this to symbolize war and that is it.
a symbol means whatever the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE believe it means.
and the swastika is thus seen as the national socialist party of germany from 1930's to 1945 now.

DEAL WITH IT
Wait so by me stating a fact you then say something completely irelevant - I am simply explaining where it comes from and why he used it >.<
 

MrJKapowey

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For me (personally) I think they should look at the Swastikas colour scheme. I mean, on Tuesday I was repeatedly killed by someone with the emblem of a black swastika; AND THEN on a white circle with a red square on the layer below that. Thats a bit too far don't you think?

On the other hand, If the Swastika is gold or another colour associated with the Hindu symbol of peace. AND is the right way round for the Hindu symbol of peace, then don't ban them. Personally, the only people that should offend is people who are small minded and look for only one root of the symbol and/or have some reason to hate the Nazi party (personally) In which case they could just send a message to the user with the symbol of peace and ask him to remove it.
 

sukkafree

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I personally think they should ban 'em along with vulgar and/or vile emblems. I think the swastika is the stupidest, immature, or at least the most overused thing I have ever encountered in my life.