Poll: Do you agree with the criminalisation of drug use?

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Kopikatsu said:
I agree with Thaluikhain. I don't think any reasonable person could consider drug use a 'choice'. Addiction removes choice by definition. Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.

Consider just how many people are in prison for years because of marijuana convictions. Is a few minutes of getting high worth decades of incarceration? Is smoking that blunt really worth more than your freedom?

These people are too irresponsible to be left to their own devices.
What the fuck dude? That doesn't even make sense. In that case it's not the drug that's doing the damage to the person, weed is almost entirely harmless. It's the government and the (misguided) laws surrounding it. You have no clue.

edit: I just read some of your other replies. You're an idiot and you have no idea what you're talking about.


Yeah, I said before in another thread about smoking that I think all drugs should be legal for use, unless it starts directly negatively affecting others which is when the law can step in. I know a lot of casual cocaine and MDMA users who just take it a couple of times a year, chill out and have a good time, and don't bother anyone. They aren't getting into cars and killing children, they aren't suddenly plunging into a drug-addicted downward spiral, they aren't destroying the country, and guess what? The vast majority of casual, recreational drug users are the same.

Hard, life-destroying drugs like crystal meth and heroine should be banned, just as drinking gasoline is banned.

Granted, I also know people who are completely fucked by using drugs nearly every day. But how many alcoholics are there in the world? People addicted to sugar or television or video games who end up destroying their lives and bodies? It's the same thing, just a different tune.


There's a lot of miseducation surrounding the subject of drugs. Christ, it is painfully apparent in this thread.
 

ObserverStatus

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I have no problem with legalizing Marijuana. As for more dangerous drugs, I don't think we should be putting people in prison for using them, but they should still stay illegal, to give the government a precedent to force addicts who are a danger to others into treatment.
 

revjay

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I voted to decriminalize all drugs. I should add that I also think marijuana should be legal as well.
 

Solsbury_Grille

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Any society that winks a little harmless pot smoking pretty much deserves whatever it gets from any other drug use. If you're okay with one, you might as well be okay with them all.

Personally, I say legalize it all in whatever quantity you like. If you truly want to defang the Cartels, you're going to have to make it all legal. You will throw away a couple of generations of kids, but they'll eventually figure out this garbage is as bad as Mom & Dad said it was.

And for the love of all that is holy, would you stoners PLEASE stop with the, "oh-but-it-will-make-US-so-much-tax-revenue" crap? Colorado projected $33.5M in taxes until Captain Herbal Life figured out he could grow it at home. They took in about $10M, a third of what they thought would come in.

Don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining.
 

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Solsbury_Grille said:
Any society that winks a little harmless pot smoking pretty much deserves whatever it gets from any other drug use. If you're okay with one, you might as well be okay with them all.

Personally, I say legalize it all in whatever quantity you like. If you truly want to defang the Cartels, you're going to have to make it all legal. You will throw away a couple of generations of kids, but they'll eventually figure out this garbage is as bad as Mom & Dad said it was.

And for the love of all that is holy, would you stoners PLEASE stop with the, "oh-but-it-will-make-US-so-much-tax-revenue" crap? Colorado projected $33.5M in taxes until Captain Herbal Life figured out he could grow it at home. They took in about $10M, a third of what they thought would come in.

Don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining.
There's no way to compare smoking weed and crystal meth. That's like saying it's okay to eat some candy a couple of times a week, so it must be fine to pour a barrel of maple syrup down your throat a couple of times a week too.

As for the tax stuff, I don't think it should even be an issue that people address. It seems to me like a fruitless, desperate attempt to get a deaf government to listen by luring them with the sounds of rustling dollar notes.
 

DRTJR

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I believe that dealers should get life sentences. Period End of Story.
One year per centigram of drug, irregardless of the illicit drug.
 

Solsbury_Grille

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Digi7 said:
Solsbury_Grille said:
Any society that winks a little harmless pot smoking pretty much deserves whatever it gets from any other drug use. If you're okay with one, you might as well be okay with them all.

Personally, I say legalize it all in whatever quantity you like. If you truly want to defang the Cartels, you're going to have to make it all legal. You will throw away a couple of generations of kids, but they'll eventually figure out this garbage is as bad as Mom & Dad said it was.

And for the love of all that is holy, would you stoners PLEASE stop with the, "oh-but-it-will-make-US-so-much-tax-revenue" crap? Colorado projected $33.5M in taxes until Captain Herbal Life figured out he could grow it at home. They took in about $10M, a third of what they thought would come in.

Don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining.
There's no way to compare smoking weed and crystal meth. That's like saying it's okay to eat some candy a couple of times a week, so it must be fine to pour a barrel of maple syrup down your throat a couple of times a week too.

As for the tax stuff, I don't think it should even be an issue that people address. It seems to me like a fruitless, desperate attempt to get a deaf government to listen by luring them with the sounds of rustling dollar notes.
Sure you can. Drugs make you the stupidest person on Earth. Stoners are the easiest people in the world to screw with. Doesn't matter if it's weed or meth, you're still convinced the buttons on my shirt are Chiclets. I went to college. I remember the potheads. They were morons when they were stoned. For every guy figuring out a benzene ring from his drug-addled hallucinations, I can point to ten thousand ignorant Spam-sucking white trailer trash who think a pit bull is a status symbol.

The only advantage I can see is driving.

Stoner's perception of speed: Warp Factor 5
Actual speed: 2mph

You can limp out of their way.
 

BeerTent

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This is a tough one for me.

I know the system is backwards, and where I live pot abuse is a major problem.

Personally, I hate the smell of pot, and I generally dislike what it has done to me. Alcohol is so much better. Provided, of course, it's used properly. Just like with everything else, abuse of alcohol can lead to a lot of problems.

I guess my strong, strong bias against marijuana is because of the people who fight so vehemently for it. Because people abuse it as hard as they do, and because of that, they form these retarded arguments for marijuana legalization which has positively nothing to back it up. But skimming though a bit of the thread, I've learned to positively no surprise that those against legalization will also stoop to the exact same levels as the addicts to the point where I must say, to certain individuals within this thread that are against legalization, please just shut the fuck up. You're not helping your cause at all.

Where I live, I know so many goddamn addicts that I've had to say this on numerous occasions when it comes to the topic of weed. "I've heard it all before. I care not for your side as I know you have positively nothing of value to add to this conversation. You have disreputable studies, and nothing to validate your claims. You're an abuser, don't prove to me your an addict and a liar too."

Generally, I strongly dislike dismissing someone's side, or removing someone from an adult conversation. But the topic of legalization of weed, locally, to me is not a mature subject. It's how you weed out (Lawl) the addicts and the casual abusers. Addicts will fight tooth and nail as they push two 'poppers' to feel 'normal' enough to tackle the day. Casual users will state their claims and leave it, and often, we'll agree on a lot without the need for a bunch of shit on Nixon and monkeys. (Don't elaborate, or request me to elaborate on "Nixon and monkeys", please.)

The problem is, did we get to this point because it's illegal? Or would we have gotten to this point regardless? Before we can answer if legalization is a good idea, we need to know this first. Personally, I think we would have gotten here regardless, because where I live, there are far far worse problems that people need to put up with every day. People are depressed, because there's fewer people everywhere else in the province, and this city is filled with kids. (Fuck, I feel old to say that.) One thing for sure the current system of putting someone in for a Summary is not working. Force the individual to rehab, but not prison. If they're in prison, it lands on their permanent record, which stifles them for their entire lives, and provides a catalyst to continue abusing drugs.

(I don't know what the system is like in the States, but I do know that it is a federal offense. In Canada, possession of a little bit is a Summary Offense, which means you'll likely end up in prison for 6 months, and/or a fine. It goes on your permanent record, and if you're a repeat offender, or you have a lot, you're in prison for under 5 years with an Indictable Offense. Possession of other illicit drugs varies in terms of punishment. Fellow Canadians may be wise to inquire to the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act.)

Am I for, or against legalization? It's a black and white question and answer, but with all of the valuables involved, I can't answer it as such. I lean against. Force rehab or life imprisonment on the accused. Because you can either genuinely attempt to help them, or go all the way if you're going to ruin their life.
 

Solsbury_Grille

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Right there with you, BeerTent. I hate what I've seen drugs do to people. But they actually choose to to do that. I don't know why. I got tired of asking.
 

Callate

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I could only be okay with full legalization (even with heavy regulation) if we had a parallel mass change in the way we treat drug users. Drug addiction would have to be a medical problem that anyone could get effective, free or massively subsidized treatment for, perhaps even with paid time off (at least, for the first such course of treatment.) And "your child got into you methamphetamine stash" couldn't ever be treated like "your child swiped a beer from the fridge" or "your child got into the liquor cabinet" as a "Oops, heh heh, I won't do it again" thing.

But the fact of the matter is, my country is engaged in an active media and legal campaign against the poorest people in my country, constantly referring to the poor as freeloaders and leeches on society and in some places criminalizing the feeding of the homeless. I think we're about as likely to fully subsidize drug rehabilitation ("MY TAX DOLLARS GOING TO PAY FOR SOME DRUGGED-OUT BARK BARK BARK...") as we are to build a base on Saturn.

That being the case, I'm glad to live in one of the states that legalized marijuana, even though I have no interest in using it. But I'm not entirely unhappy that most of the harder stuff is against the law.
 

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Solsbury_Grille said:
Digi7 said:
Solsbury_Grille said:
Any society that winks a little harmless pot smoking pretty much deserves whatever it gets from any other drug use. If you're okay with one, you might as well be okay with them all.

Personally, I say legalize it all in whatever quantity you like. If you truly want to defang the Cartels, you're going to have to make it all legal. You will throw away a couple of generations of kids, but they'll eventually figure out this garbage is as bad as Mom & Dad said it was.

And for the love of all that is holy, would you stoners PLEASE stop with the, "oh-but-it-will-make-US-so-much-tax-revenue" crap? Colorado projected $33.5M in taxes until Captain Herbal Life figured out he could grow it at home. They took in about $10M, a third of what they thought would come in.

Don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining.
There's no way to compare smoking weed and crystal meth. That's like saying it's okay to eat some candy a couple of times a week, so it must be fine to pour a barrel of maple syrup down your throat a couple of times a week too.

As for the tax stuff, I don't think it should even be an issue that people address. It seems to me like a fruitless, desperate attempt to get a deaf government to listen by luring them with the sounds of rustling dollar notes.
Sure you can. Drugs make you the stupidest person on Earth. Stoners are the easiest people in the world to screw with. Doesn't matter if it's weed or meth, you're still convinced the buttons on my shirt are Chiclets. I went to college. I remember the potheads. They were morons when they were stoned. For every guy figuring out a benzene ring from his drug-addled hallucinations, I can point to ten thousand ignorant Spam-sucking white trailer trash who think a pit bull is a status symbol.

The only advantage I can see is driving.

Stoner's perception of speed: Warp Factor 5
Actual speed: 2mph

You can limp out of their way.
Yep, so comparing a bunch of silly young college students just discovering and overusing weed or poor, uneducated white-trash to mature, sensible, private, moderate and knowledgable users is totally viable. Holy shit, people have some different values to you. Some people like to enjoy different things to what you personally think is intelligent to enjoy. They must be really fucking stupid. That's like comparing a bunch of frat boys chugging beer and puking themselves into a gutter to a bloke who has a few glasses of wine after dinner.

As a disclaimer, I've smoked weed about 15 or so times in my life. I don't really enjoy it. I don't like being in an altered state of consciousness at the moment, but I will fucking defend their utterly harmless method of enjoying themselves to the grave. That's not even mentioning all the benefits that marijuana can bring to the mind and body if used correctly.

I don't know why I'm bothering, you clearly have your mind made up based on some college experience with a bunch of dickheads or people who can't control themselves.
 

Solsbury_Grille

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Digi7 said:
Yep, so comparing a bunch of silly young college students just discovering and overusing weed or poor, uneducated white-trash to mature, sensible, private, moderate and knowledgable users is totally viable. Holy shit, people have some different values to you. Some people like to enjoy different things to what you personally think is intelligent to enjoy. They must be really fucking stupid. That's like comparing a bunch of frat boys chugging beer and puking themselves into a gutter to a bloke who has a few glasses of wine after dinner.

As a disclaimer, I've smoked weed about 15 or so times in my life. I don't really enjoy it. I don't like being in an altered state of consciousness at the moment, but I will fucking defend their utterly harmless method of enjoying themselves to the grave. That's not even mentioning all the benefits that marijuana can bring to the mind and body if used correctly.

I don't know why I'm bothering, you clearly have your mind made up based on some college experience with a bunch of dickheads or people who can't control themselves.
The witty, urbane stockbroker is just as big of a dumbass when he's stoned as some ignorant white trash peckerwood. Drugs are a great equalizer that way.

Look, I've already said I support legalization of all classes of drugs. We've been circumventing Darwinism for far too long.
 

default

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Solsbury_Grille said:
Digi7 said:
Yep, so comparing a bunch of silly young college students just discovering and overusing weed or poor, uneducated white-trash to mature, sensible, private, moderate and knowledgable users is totally viable. Holy shit, people have some different values to you. Some people like to enjoy different things to what you personally think is intelligent to enjoy. They must be really fucking stupid. That's like comparing a bunch of frat boys chugging beer and puking themselves into a gutter to a bloke who has a few glasses of wine after dinner.

As a disclaimer, I've smoked weed about 15 or so times in my life. I don't really enjoy it. I don't like being in an altered state of consciousness at the moment, but I will fucking defend their utterly harmless method of enjoying themselves to the grave. That's not even mentioning all the benefits that marijuana can bring to the mind and body if used correctly.

I don't know why I'm bothering, you clearly have your mind made up based on some college experience with a bunch of dickheads or people who can't control themselves.
The witty, urbane stockbroker is just as big of a dumbass when he's stoned as some ignorant white trash peckerwood. Drugs are a great equalizer that way.

Look, I've already said I support legalization of all classes of drugs. We've been circumventing Darwinism for far too long.
I'm in agreement with you there. Doesn't mean that it's stupid to enjoy that kind of thing with moderation though.

I also agree with the Darwinism thing. If someone is dumb enough to smoke 5 packs of cigarettes a week or snort coke every other day when the information on the danger is so readily apparent they deserve everything they get.
 

Ark of the Covetor

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Kopikatsu said:
I agree with Thaluikhain. I don't think any reasonable person could consider drug use a 'choice'. Addiction removes choice by definition. Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves.

Consider just how many people are in prison for years because of marijuana convictions. Is a few minutes of getting high worth decades of incarceration? Is smoking that blunt really worth more than your freedom?

These people are too irresponsible to be left to their own devices.
So you also support the criminalisation of alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine, as well as any even mildly dangerous sport such as skiing or mountain climbing, and a ban on designing any motor vehicle capable of exceeding the highest speed limit in a country? Afterall, alcohol and caffeine are both capable of creating physical dependency, people can become addicted to their own adrenaline secretions as a result of thrill-based sports, and the same is true of driving at speed. You don't get to only apply your logic to things that are presently and often arbitrarily illegal - the list of things and activities which can cause addiction includes essentially anything capable of triggering the brain's reward system, which is almost everything.

The reasons why people commit crimes are actually pretty well understood, and it will surprise you to learn that "I think doing this is worth decades of incarceration" is not very high on the list. In fact, outside of vengeance killings or violent activism, it's nonexistent. The reason people smoke weed, or drive past the speed limit, or piss in an alley, or commit any number of other seemingly harmless crimes is simply that they don't believe they'll be the ones who get caught. It's why "deterrence" is a demonstrably stupid basis for criminal sentencing; no matter how severe you make the penalty, people will still commit crimes, either in the heat of the moment when their reasoning is compromised by circumstance(crimes of passion) or simply because it never occurs to them that they'll be the ones who get caught. That's not a quality that is unique to some specific subset of the population who are too stupid to be allowed to control their own lives, it's a basic flaw in the human operating system.

Unless your actions directly cause harm to other people, criminalising that behaviour is unjustifiable; it won't prevent the behaviour, it won't limit the impact of the behaviour on society, and it needlessly limits individual agency. Look at the difference in approach between the prohibition of alcohol in America in the first half of the 20th century, and the more recent approach taken towards tobacco use; prohibition failed, categorically and unequivocally, yet the last 20 years have seen a drastic reduction in rates of smoking in almost every developed country through a combination of tighter regulation(raising legal age of purchase, banning smoking in enclosed public spaces), public information campaigns, and targeted taxation(in most countries the tax take from tobacco products now far exceeds the costs to the state of treating smoking-related illnesses). And that's for a substance which is far more addictive than weed or even MDMA/Ecstasy.

This isn't about protecting people from themselves, it's about making yourself feel superior(others need to be protected from themselves, but you're to awesome to ever need that), and the Ban Everything Brigade will happily use demonstrably incorrect reasoning to justify the use of demonstrably ineffective, even counter-productive, policies if it allows them a chance to set themselves above the rest of society.
 

clippen05

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Ehh, my feelings on it are weird. I am personally vehemently against drug use and will always be uneasy around people who use even just marijuana. That said, I don't believe in criminalising all but the hardest of drugs. Why? Because it doesn't stop people from doing them. People want to get high - they will get high. So rather then destroy lives for something that doesn't directly harm anyone else, I believe most drugs should be legalised and taxed. That will mean less money in the hands of criminals, more saftey over the whole process, and a boost to the economy. My only qualm is that it be restricted to inside ones home or at private venues. Don't want people cracked out in public nor do I want to deal with marijuana smoke in public.

I mean, if people can buy all the cigarettes or alcohol they want with no restrictions whatsoever (besides age of course), why shouldn't someone be able to buy all the drugs they want? They are all damaging substances, why so much restriction on some but not others? (Obviously there should be laws in place for the hardest drugs but I'm not an expert on the subject so I don't know where to draw the line)
 

RavingSturm

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Depends on the drug of course but I'm partial to taxation and regulation. This should put some criminals out of business.
 

Czann

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Yes.

Considering these drug addled cretins are responsible for financing the drug cartels that commit all sort of atrocities because they can't live without feeling high, in other words being indirectly responsible for all the deaths and suffering the drug lords cause, and couldn't care less about it to hell with them.
 

DirgeNovak

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The criminalization of marijuana is just a waste of judicial resources for something that doesn't harm anyone. Legalize it, tax it like tobacco and regulate it like alcohol. That means less prison overcrowding, less money for organized crime and more money for the state. That's a win.
 

CrystalViolet

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The Almighty Aardvark said:
The poll needed an option for legalized possession and criminalized dealing.
I was looking specifically for people's thoughts regarding use.

The Almighty Aardvark said:
The biggest problem I can see with this is that wherever you have you have regulation is a place where those who sold it illegally can sneak in. Make it so that kids can't buy hard drugs and suddenly they are going to be the biggest consumer base of drug dealers.
I find that highly unlikely. A more plausible is that young kids will be asking older teenagers with fake IDs to buy them pot.

Great username by the way!!

spartan231490 said:
I can appreciate your views as they're more grounded in reality but I don't agree. I believe adults should be allowed to make their own decisions as to the drugs they use and a number of safeguards be in place to prevent abuse and adulteration. Also the control of drugs will still be in the hands of criminals so while people aren't been unfairly incarcerated the criminal enterprises are still doing awful things in third world countries.

Zykon TheLich said:
I have an answer for that, and it's fucktons. Mephedrone was legal until a couple of years ago in the UK and it was pretty much a free for all on par with the early 90's love for MDMA. Not that these people wouldn't have been doing something else anyway, but if there's something legal that'll get you high almost like something else that's illegal, people will take it. Now it's illegal again people are back to MDMA.
I think he meant that nobody will take bath salts when MDMA is legal. It would be like buying pigeon meat from a creepy man's van when there's a perfectly good delicatessen selling chicken across the street.

The Towel Boy said:
But, as for any other drug such as cocaine, meth, or any drug of those natures, should still be illegal.
Then we're back to square one where people are ending up in jail and the cartels have a steady flow of money. How can anyone not see this?

The Towel Boy said:
Trust me, it would be a bad idea to have pcp/heroine/or cocaine users commonly walking down the street... it's a disaster that would erupt very quickly...
I'm sorry but I don't trust your judgement here. A highly controlled, safe depot for unadulterated drugs would make it much safer than it is now. Most tweekers on crystal meth are running around stabbing people because they're living a criminal lifestyle. Nobody will take crystal meth when pharmaceutically produced amphetamines are available.

By the way I'm a police detective so I also see crazy addicts.

Mr_Spanky said:
Medical yes.

Legal no.

There ends the lesson bitches
Your lesson fails to address the fact that users are at greater risk and cartels control the market under prohibition.

Jonluw said:
All this because they've mentally placed LSD and heroin in the same category, which is just so ridiculous I can't fathom it.
This just totally fills my head with fuck. So many myths have accumulated in people's collective unconscious about LSD, how it makes you crazy, makes you think you can fly etc that the idea of its therapeutic use is bonkers to most people.

Jonluw said:
If people would only skip one of their weekly alcohol binges in favor of doing some MDMA, letting loose and realizing they love eachother with a clear head instead of the sedated alcoholic state, I genuinely think the world would be quite a better place.
I've seen people who drank too much pulling weapons on each other. I've seen people high on MDMA hugging too much :p