Poll: Do you care about "flag burning"?

[drisky]

The actual act is harmless, the sentiment can be more threatening. The flag burner could be anything from someone with a simple point to make, to violent intentions. Usually it comes from a place of hate, that is not a good thing, but that hate will be there weather they burn a flag or not.

 

[KingGolem]

There's a pretty large leap from burning a flag in protest and blowing yourself up in a suicide bombing. Yes, I'm sure a few would be willing to make the leap, but it's not a case of 'with us or against us'. The difference in the methods is so extreme that to suggest flag burners 'undoubtedly' support mass murderers (or attempted mass murderers) is ridiculous.

I'm sure there are Norwegians who don't like multiculturalism, doesn't mean they sympathise with Anders Breivik.

Okay, I'll admit that maybe not all of them are terrorist sympathizers, but seeing such an outpouring of hatred from them, why wouldn't they support the terrorists? They wouldn't admit it, and maybe they would openly denounce them, but I think if it really came down to it they'd more readily support those who are fighting against their hated enemies. Again, maybe not all of them, but even if a few did, that's enough to mark these flag-burners as a liability. I think what we ought to do is arrest flag-burners, give them some minor fee or punishment (community service would good for poetic justice), and most importantly, put them on some kind of surveillance list to make sure they're not terrorists/sympathizers and catch them if they are.

 

[minimacker]

Nope. In fact, burning a flag and not be bothered about it would be a pride for that nation, as it would prove that they do not care for the actual flag and history, but rather that you care for the people living in said nation.

 

[Woodsey]

There's a pretty large leap from burning a flag in protest and blowing yourself up in a suicide bombing. Yes, I'm sure a few would be willing to make the leap, but it's not a case of 'with us or against us'. The difference in the methods is so extreme that to suggest flag burners 'undoubtedly' support mass murderers (or attempted mass murderers) is ridiculous.

I'm sure there are Norwegians who don't like multiculturalism, doesn't mean they sympathise with Anders Breivik.

Okay, I'll admit that maybe not all of them are terrorist sympathizers, but seeing such an outpouring of hatred from them, why wouldn't they support the terrorists? They wouldn't admit it, and maybe they would openly denounce them, but I think if it really came down to it they'd more readily support those who are fighting against their hated enemies. Again, maybe not all of them, but even if a few did, that's enough to mark these flag-burners as a liability. I think what we ought to do is arrest flag-burners, give them some minor fee or punishment (community service would good for poetic justice), and most importantly, put them on some kind of surveillance list to make sure they're not terrorists/sympathizers and catch them if they are.

You'll be voicing your support should US law makers propose a change to the 1st Amendment, stating it should not apply to people who say things that might indicate they are potentially in agreement to an extent with those who commit crimes?

I guess US police should arrest pro-lifers protesting outside of abortion clinics because they're 'potentially' going to join home-grown Christian terrorists who decide to firebomb said clinics.

Or, hey, arrest anyone protesting anything which could potentially be linked to more violent activists.

 

[KingGolem]

You'll be voicing your support should US law makers propose a change to the 1st Amendment, stating it should not apply to people who say things that might indicate they are potentially in agreement to an extent with those who commit crimes?

I guess US police should arrest pro-lifers protesting outside of abortion clinics because they're 'potentially' going to join home-grown Christian terrorists who decide to firebomb said clinics.

Or, hey, arrest anyone protesting anything which could potentially be linked to more violent activists.

We're in the middle of a war, fought from both within and without our borders. It's fine to protest the war, but when they burn flags, they're not just protesting the war, they're expressing a deep hatred of the country in question. Who could they identify with besides the enemies of that country? Further, based on numbers alone I think it's pretty clear that Muslim terrorists are much more of threat than Christian terrorists. We're actually at war with whole nations full of Muslims, whereas Christians who go out and protest before abortion clinics are a minority, and abortion clinic terrorists are an even smaller one. Again, protesting is different from flag burning. If those pro-lifers stood around with their horrible signs saying such things as "Abortion is murder," and "Abortion stops a beating heart," then that's just them expressing their ignorant, bigoted opinion. However, if they were to hang and burn the abortion doctors in effigy, then I think that would warrant their arrest. Do you see the difference? One expresses on opinion on an issue, while the other expresses nothing but hatred of the sort which has an obvious outlet.

 

[dyre]

It seems mostly pointless. I think it's basically a way for angry people to vent without actually doing anything harmful (or useful).

People who get offended should keep in mind that it's just a piece of cloth that's being burnt, instead of, you know, a human being.

It's more than just a piece of cloth, it's a symbol; and by burning said symbol it's basically like saying "fuck you" to the nation the flag represents.

Uh, yeah, so? People aren't allowed to say "fuck you" to our nation? We've certainly earned plenty of "fuck you"s.

So nothing. I was just saying that flags are more than just "pieces of cloth." as you put it.

Come on, man, read context. I was clearly pointing out that burning objects is completely harmless, and we really shouldn't bother with people for doing so when we live in a world where some people destroy human beings, not just flags.

You can't just trivialize the destruction of symbols that represent things that people believe in, even if you don't agree with or understand that belief. Surely you can understand the importance of symbols. Think of any of the symbols used in your favorite franchise of choice, be it game, movie, book, or whatever. Wouldn't you be rather upset if someone started burning or otherwise destroying them?

Obviously if it was a meaningless piece of cloth, people wouldn't bother burning it. I suppose I might be slightly upset if I was some kind of nationalist, but on the list of things I ought to get upset about, it's not very high. It'd be similar to someone verbally insulting my country.

 

[Woodsey]

You'll be voicing your support should US law makers propose a change to the 1st Amendment, stating it should not apply to people who say things that might indicate they are potentially in agreement to an extent with those who commit crimes?

I guess US police should arrest pro-lifers protesting outside of abortion clinics because they're 'potentially' going to join home-grown Christian terrorists who decide to firebomb said clinics.

Or, hey, arrest anyone protesting anything which could potentially be linked to more violent activists.

We're in the middle of a war, fought from both within and without our borders. It's fine to protest the war, but when they burn flags, they're not just protesting the war, they're expressing a deep hatred of the country in question. Who could they identify with besides the enemies of that country? Further, based on numbers alone I think it's pretty clear that Muslim terrorists are much more of threat than Christian terrorists. We're actually at war with whole nations full of Muslims, whereas Christians who go out and protest before abortion clinics are a minority, and abortion clinic terrorists are an even smaller one. Again, protesting is different from flag burning. If those pro-lifers stood around with their horrible signs saying such things as "Abortion is murder," and "Abortion stops a beating heart," then that's just them expressing their ignorant, bigoted opinion. However, if they were to hang and burn the abortion doctors in effigy, then I think that would warrant their arrest. Do you see the difference? One expresses on opinion on an issue, while the other expresses nothing but hatred of the sort which has an obvious outlet.

'they're expressing a deep hatred of the country in question'

Again, oversimplification. Disagreement or even resentment of the country's actions does not mean they hold a seething hatred towards everything and everyone within it. And again, it is not all or nothing. You don't identify with one extreme group by default because you disagree with the actions of another.

Arresting people 'just in case' and because you think they're showing a supposed 'hatred' for the country is a typical feature of fascist and totalitarian states - and one group of people's right should never be invalidated because they are perceived to potentially pose a larger threat by some incredibly flimsy assumptions. You apply the rules to everyone or you don't apply them - and clearly, you're not willing to apply them to everyone.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

I'm an American.
A flag means nothing to me, it is cloth.
Run a plane into a building my uncle was currently visiting, than we have a problem.

 

[personaitor]

Flag burning. It's just terrible. Terrible terrible terrible. When you destroy and defile a flag in an undignified way, you're not just destroying a piece of cloth. Your attacking what your very citizenship represents, as well as what represents your nation. Governments =/= Nation. I really, really Really hate our politicians.(I am American, if you didn't already guess) They are all really goddamn stupid, but they can easily make it seem like they're actually doing something when in reality they're just ignoring problems while things are degrading.

Sorry, bit of a tangent there, but still. If i ever see a person defile my flag, I will defend it, no matter the cost. and would you like to know why? Because you're doing the very thing the Japanese tried to do in 1942. You're doing exactly what the Nazi's tried to do in their attempt at conquering Europe. Men and Women, of all races, have defended this flag and her enemies. They gave their Lives defending this flag. They stopped our enemies from destroying our flag, sometimes at great cost. So tell me, what gives me the right to do any less? What absolves me from the responsibility and obligation, that is given to all American citizens. There is a reason we pledge allegiance to our flag and only our flag.

One of my favorite poems, written by Johnny Cash, is a good representative of the idea of this flag.