Poll: Do you like Israel?

[Strophios]

About Japan you can say that in some islands its inhabitants aren't from Hokaido, which is the main Island of Japan. But that would be petty. There are a handful of foreigners that have a Japanese citizenship. This isn't a viable minority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan

Suffice it to say there are ethnic issues in Japan. Note, my only claim is that there are ethnic minorities worth knowing about.

palestinians have a name that was given to them, a history of being pushed around and used, a language that more than a billion people use, customs and culture that are based around the Koran which is basically similar to all Sunni Muslims.
I don't see them as a separate nationality. I don't see a nationalist movement.

Well, I'm glad that you've decided you can be the official arbiter over what is and what is not a nationality. Or, to be slightly less flippant: the Palestinians have a name which they use, I don't care if it was given or self-created. If language is an issue, then I assume you're all for a single Caliphate, right? And likewise for a single great nation running from the Rio Grande to the southern most tip of South America? And finally, if you want to talk culture, all Western Europe has a culture essentially based on a melding of the Bible with Roman custom. Also, what's your opinion on Alsatians? French, German, something else?

Finally, to return to my first point: why exactly is your view here definitive? It is very clear that there are people, in Palestine, who view themselves as a national movement. Why exactly is that invalid?

Niger is comprised of several tribes. Do we cut it up and give each tribe their own land?

I don't know; is that what the tribes want? Or, because real world examples are the most fun: How do you feel about Basques? Or (what is now) the nation of Kosovo?

About america. It still has the aspect of History (which all citizens learn and most are proud of) and culture. There isn't the same Culture or History to all Catholics.

Okay, all Catholics living in America. Or all Irish Catholics as opposed to the non-Catholic Irish or, staying within the U.S., all Irish Catholics and none of the Italian Catholics. Why, given that these groups share so many more things than they do simply with their current nationality, shouldn't the nationality be redefined down smaller?

I'll tell you why: because they haven't said so.

Look at the people calling themselves patriots, disliking immigrants. They believe that their country is just for the Americans, where the nationality of Americans is based on their mindset and philosophy but also on over two hundred years of history and culture that reflects their believes.

Okay, so the Americans have a two hundred year pedigree. At what point did that pedigree become valid? Ten years? Twenty? After the Civil War? I'm curious, because then we can start counting the days until the Palestinians have enough "history." Tangentially, it's actually really funny to talk about the Palestinians not having the necessary history, because at least their history is (more or less) true. Compare this to, say, the Bulgarians. Ask a Bulgarian about the forced conversions. Go on, ask. Ask how important they are to his national identity. The answer will, almost always, be "foundational" (or something similar). Here's the funny thing though about the forced conversions: they didn't happen. By contrast, at least the Nakba actually took place.

The palestinians might fit your definition of an ethnic group but in my eyes it fits the definition of a LARGER ethnic group.

Cool. What, exactly, determines the appropriate scope of an ethnic group? And, beyond that, the appropriate scope for a nationality?

Also, you've still yet to explain why any of this matters, even given that I were to concede to every single one of your arguments about nationality so far.

 

[RandV80]

I try not to be judgmental of Israel. They're a tiny nation surrounded by enemies, one of the few places in the modern world (Korea being the other main one) where there's a very real threat of getting invaded and wiped out. Living in the nice cozy & very safe Canada I can't say what measures I'd find acceptable of my country to keep me safe under those circumstances. And often in these case the one who's cruel and unjust vs the one that's beaten and oppressed are usually a matter of whose winning. Swap their fortunes around and it's not like the former repressed are going to become benevolent. Ideally you want to find a compromise and come to a peaceful agreement, but no one seems to have an answer for that.

 

[TheIronRuler]

-snip-

I was neither paraphrasing nor quoting you, simply adding that "least amount of blood possible" isn't the only goal if justice is to be served. I don't want to see anyone on either side die either, but if the price of that bloodless peace is that every Palestinian basically gets rounded up and deported, then that, to me, is just as unacceptable as open warfare between the two.

I don't see anyone in this entire discussion, or even anyone in the Israeli political arena, claiming that the West Bank and Gaza strip should be ethnically cleansed and claimed as Israeli territory, so I don't understand why you bring this up.

It's obvious any peace agreement will be based on the current borders. Neither side is going to tear down entire cities just because the other side would like another piece of desert under their flag.

Hence the "land-swaps" that have been agreed upon.
But the issue of refugees and dividing Jerusalem still stands. Israel doesn't have a secular coalition, I don't see it having one in the future - therefore yyou won;t see a peace treaty and the founding of palestine.

 

[6_Qubed]

I am of the opinion that Israel produces some irrationally gorgeous women.

Which is not much of a selling point, I admit, and it's just an opinion to boot, but in the absence of anything bad to say, I think Israel is a pretty cool guy.

It's because we're a melting pot of cultures and races.
Here you'll find all kinds of flavors.

The U.S. is like that too... except that all of our women dye their hair blonde. >.>

I'm from the U.S., dude. Blonde ain't my thing anymore. Got bored of it years ago, and the only women who could make it work died before I was born.