Poll: Do you support evolution?

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Quaxar

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BiscuitTrouser said:
Oh dear Quaxar, look where we are again. This thread is like my inner demon. It pains me so but i HAVE TO LOOK. AHHHHHHHHHHHH.
What is this, have I become some sort of holy figure in this forum without realizing?
Better start talking wise stuff so people can fight over their different interpretations of it.

Uh... "A Hox cluster in the bird is worth four in the fly."
Damn, this is harder than you'd think.

OT: Young-Earth Creationism all the way. Because it's the only conclusive explanation of why there still are monkeys.
 

Zipa

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Dec 19, 2010
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I don't believe in evolution but rather acknowledge that the scientific theory of evolution is in fact correct as proven by the huge amount of scientific research gone into it. Same as the theory of gravity or electromagnetism.

Also for those asking about a religion that is anti evolution look up the Jehovah witnesses, they even print pseudo science literature to brainwash members and others when attempting to gull them. I work with someone who tried this on me and he was less than impressed when I debunked all his bullshit.
 

Phrozenflame500

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masticina said:
One does not BELIEF in evolution.

BELIEF is based upon FAITH, a RELIGIOUS entity

EVOLUTION is based upon SCIENCE, it can be tested, measured and even predicted upon.
Eh, strictly speaking you do "believe" and "have faith" in evolution, but you do it because of hard evidence and facts. As opposed to creationists who believe in creationism due to blind faith.

It's completely semantics and really doesn't change your point, but I'm a nitpicky asshole who insists on people using proper wording.
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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It is a consistent theory, evidence supports it, not much contradicts it (at most, there are some missing links), the process has been witnessed on a smaller scale in the present (animals evolving different physical characteristics to adapt to a change in their environment). So yes, I'm with it.

That being said, I never found that evolution contradicts creationism, at least in general terms. Taking the Christian variety, Genesis actually lists the various stages of how the universe was created in fairly accurate terms, albeit metaphorically. Religion says what God did, Science tells how he went about it (I'd just like to note at this point that I'm an agnostic).

The problem with religion in this context is that people insist on interpreting what is written as literally as possible, which ends up being silly. But idiots are idiots, regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof).
 

San Martin

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SkarKrow said:
Oh and every time I see a lunatic argue that bananas are shaped for our hands by god or whatever I crack up.

Evolution is a thing, maybe some deity set the universe in motion, but nothing was created as it is now.
So you're honestly trying to tell me that bananas, objects clearly intended to be used by early humans as dildos, are the product of a natural process? I don't think so. It would take a God who's aware of the sensuous joys of getting on down for some penetrative fun to come up with such a sexy, sexy design.

Bananas=dildos=proof of God's existence.

Our God is a sex fiend, can you relate?
 

Jenvas1306

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so after a little discussion with my bf I'll add: I rather believe in annunaki than god

instead of just random mutations it might have been the manipulation of aliens that led to our evolution. maybe they even mixed their own DNA in...

or maybe our compleet planet was put in this position and terraformed to bare life by an ancient machine that travels the universe to plant the seeds of its lost creator (my bf is into heavy scifi)



even this slightly crazy sounding stuff makes way more sense than most believes in a godlike entity. after all if that creature really exsists, would religious people want to keep worshiping it? it would probably change the way they believe and stuff (there is a stargate reference here somewhere).
when the exsistance of god is proven, he anyway is just another fact of science.
 

San Martin

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Phrozenflame500 said:
masticina said:
One does not BELIEF in evolution.

BELIEF is based upon FAITH, a RELIGIOUS entity

EVOLUTION is based upon SCIENCE, it can be tested, measured and even predicted upon.
Eh, strictly speaking you do "believe" and "have faith" in evolution, but you do it because of hard evidence and facts. As opposed to creationists who believe in creationism due to blind faith.

It's completely semantics and really doesn't change your point, but I'm a nitpicky asshole who insists on people using proper wording.
Personally I don't think you're nitpicking; your point is entirely relevant. Believing the theory of evolution is the most logical approach. However, just as belief in a god requires faith in its existence, so to does belief in the theory of evolution (and they're not mutually exclusive) require faith in the basic tenets of the scientific method. It may seem like mere semantics, but in reality if you're going to debate a topic so important, and with so many philosophical ramifications, as the origins of life itself, then getting the concept of "faith" right is necessary.
 

sir neillios

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Dec 15, 2012
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Get this to the R&P boards already, although to be honest so far its been surprising civil given the subject matter.
 

SpAc3man

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I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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I think it's absolutely ridiculous not to, since mankind has literally been engineering evolution for hundreds (hell probably thousands) of years. Dogs, for fucks sake. We pretty much created that subspecies in its entirety. And even if the vast amount of proof wasn't enough for me to say that it was undeniably true, it sounds a hell of a lot more probable than "A giant invisible man magically poofed everything into existence exactly as it is and I know because of a 2000 year old book that has giants and unicorns in it."
 

Piorn

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I believe in Evolution.
I personally don't know if it exists, because I lack the capability to test it myself, but I have faith in it's existence, because it fits into my view of the world.

One thing I know though, is that people like to treat Religion like a Science, and then laugh at it for being not science.
Science and Religion aim at different questions, using different methods, yet people still insist they should be measured with the same scales. So everyone gets his own scale and "disproves" the other one in an endless, senseless feud.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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Yes.

I also believe in the sky and the Earth and the colour blue.

Piorn said:
One thing I know though, is that people like to treat Religion like a Science, and then laugh at it for being not science.
Perhaps people should stop trying to stick religion into arguments it has no place in if people don't want to be laughed at.

Guitarmasterx7 said:
I think it's absolutely ridiculous not to, since mankind has literally been engineering evolution for hundreds (hell probably thousands) of years. Dogs, for fucks sake. We pretty much created that subspecies in its entirety. And even if the vast amount of proof wasn't enough for me to say that it was undeniably true, it sounds a hell of a lot more probable than "A giant invisible man magically poofed everything into existence exactly as it is and I know because of a 2000 year old book that has giants and unicorns in it."
It's also been observed in lab experiments.

chozo_hybrid said:
Can't religion be the answer to why, and evolution could be the how?

Just something I thought I would add. I'm for evolution to be honest.
Perhaps. But there's no reason to think that other than to think it. People always come out with that in an effort to sound balanced, but it's a false dichotomy. One's entirely evidence-based, and then you're putting something which is the complete opposite on the same level just so people don't have to feel a little bit silly and can pat themselves on the back.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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I think any sane and reasonable person that has looked at the evidence would really have to be forced to. I might have had a head start (my dad is a very ardent athiest, as his family were batshit crazy. 'There are no dinosaurs because they didn't make it onto the ark' crazy), but even if I had been raised religious I still think that by now I would have come to the same conclusion.

Guitarmasterx7 said:
I think it's absolutely ridiculous not to, since mankind has literally been engineering evolution for hundreds (hell probably thousands) of years. Dogs, for fucks sake. We pretty much created that subspecies in its entirety. And even if the vast amount of proof wasn't enough for me to say that it was undeniably true, it sounds a hell of a lot more probable than "A giant invisible man magically poofed everything into existence and I know because of a 2000 year old book that has giants and unicorns in it."
It's not even just dogs, they're just the most obvious. Any domesticated animal (hell, not just animals, fruit, vegetables, flowers...). Considering that cows can have serious difficulty birthing without help, I don't see how people think they've always been that way.
 

wintercoat

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SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I know you aren't the first person to say this, and probably won't be the last, but god damn it, this is starting to piss me off. A belief is a conclusion that something is true based on the evidence given. I believe in evolution because of the empirical evidence proving it to be true, Christians believe in the existence of God because they believe the Bible is enough evidence to prove it to be true.

People denouncing the word "believe" is ridiculous. You come off as fanatical in the extreme, attempting to distance yourself from anything you perceive as being rooted in religion, even when it isn't.
 

Lhianon

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Matthew Jabour said:
I was searching the other day for a recent poll on how many people believe in evolution vs. creationism, but the only ones I could find were over a year old. So I decided to bring the question to you, the Escapist viewers. I probably won't get many people in the 54+ age group, but all polls have some element of bias. So, which do you believe? Feel free to tear each other apart in the comments.
the premise of your question is flawed since you asume one has to "believe" in evolution. since evolution is one of the theories with the most evidence for it, you could as well ask "do you believe that 2 + 2 = 4?" which is roughly in the same ballpark as far as evidence goes. since none of the answers you made chooseable reflect this, i have to only write this down and click on none of them.
 

Ragsnstitches

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dversion said:
There's a lot of talk about people saying that evolution isn't a belief because it's scientifically proven to be a fact of nature. But how does that not make it a belief? You either put belief in the evidence or you don't.

You guys are confusing belief and faith.
Do you believe in the Theory of Gravity? Or do you accept it as a fact? Because no, the 2 are not synonymous.

Belief is a personal state of acceptance. It is subjective. Fact is objective, it exists beyond your personal musings.

There is no belief in Gravity, only fact. You do not believe you won't fall up, you KNOW you won't fall up. A massive distinction. What's more Faith does not exist without belief. When you say, "I have faith in you", you are saying "I believe in you".

Faith is synonymous with Belief.
 

Bluestorm83

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I'm gonna go longwinded on this, because I feel like the term "Evolution" that people use most regularly does not actually mean Evolution.

Evolution is the long slow process of one form of life becoming a different form of life due to changes in its genetic structure.

What people mean when they talk about Evolution is ACTUALLY mere natural selection and specialization. In fact, Darwin's original "Origin of the Species" is about Specialization (where we get the term species) and not necessarily evolution. Take the Galapagos Islands, where Darwin studied. He found tons of unique species of birds, tortoises, and all kinds of other cool shit there. Clearly, CLEARLY their isolation resulted in those Species originating. They'd Specialized to that environment. But that wasn't evolution. Let me explain.

Long ago, Birds and Tortoises got to the Galapagos. Might have been due to continental drift, an ice-age landbridge, the S.S. Minnow, or anything at all. Not important. But when they were there, the ones that were shit to survive in those environments died. Their genes were lost, because they were liabilities. Meanwhile, traits that were beneficial were spread throughout the future generations until they were exaggerated due to inbreeding. Like the Hapsburgs. But nobody thinks that one England Bag who was so inbred that he couldn't even chew his own food was "Evolved." Birds are still birds, Tortoises are still tortoises; they've just specialized into new species due to the preponderance of redundant DNA causing exaggerated and beneficial )in those locales) traits. Specialization happens all over the place.

Natural Selection is unquestionably real too. Slowass meat gets eaten before fast meat does. Fast eaters eat that slowass meat, while slowass eaters suck and die. This improves populations over time too, even if there's no new species coming about. An existing species will become stronger as a whole as weak traits (again, for that location) are bred out or at least minimized.

But the thing is, none of those things are EVOLUTION. Cheetahs are still Cheetahs. They still have Cheetah DNA. More to the point, their Genome still consists of the same number of genes that it always has. Another thing about Cheetahs is kinda sad: They have incredibly low genetic variability. This means that they're specialized as all fuck... but can't really go anywhere, because they've lost genes to allow them to adapt and change as a species. Side Note: I'm usually not in favor of going out of our way to protect animals, and am content to just stop CAUSING them harm and let them do what nature wants, but Cheetahs really can't adapt to nature, so if you ever have the opportunity to shoot a cheetah or steal its home, please don't.

Now, the problem is that the Theory of Evolution, as it is now, takes those two very solid, observable things and connects them with a whole lot of "we don't know." How did life originate? We don't know. Why and how does a genome suddenly expand to allow for a greater quantity of genetic information? We don't know. Why are there so many fossils of accepted species, but an absolute lack of even a single complete fossil of a proposed missing link, especially since evolution as proposed takes so long that literal hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions of years, would go by while that missing link species was as viable in the natural world of its time as all current living species are today? We don't know.

Even still, I can't fault anyone for following the Theory of Evolution as it is written now, because honestly we have no definitive proven truth, because that can only come by using a time machine to go back and actually observe this stuff, and as I keep telling people, my Time Machine can only go forward, and it can only go forward at the rate of one second per second. It was a HUGE waste of money, let me tell you.

What it all comes down to is that everyone who has any stance on the subject will invariably get to a point where they either go, "I don't know what happened here or then, but I believe THIS because someone explained THAT to me."

And honestly, can't it be BOTH? I mean, I'm a writer. I can right this very morning take pen and paper and create a character that's older than I am. And I'm just a fatso on the internet. If there is a God, couldn't that God create a world whose story starts 7000 years ago, but whose history stretches back billions of years before that first word on paper? I don't know. Again, Internet Fatso, not God Science Guru. But here's to the search, eh? (Raises mug.)
 

SpAc3man

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wintercoat said:
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I know you aren't the first person to say this, and probably won't be the last, but god damn it, this is starting to piss me off. A belief is a conclusion that something is true based on the evidence given. I believe in evolution because of the empirical evidence proving it to be true, Christians believe in the existence of God because they believe the Bible is enough evidence to prove it to be true.

People denouncing the word "believe" is ridiculous. You come off as fanatical in the extreme, attempting to distance yourself from anything you perceive as being rooted in religion, even when it isn't.
I get what you mean. The issue here is people want to distance themselves from the connotations of "believe" being a synonym for "have faith in" when discussing this topic. The terms "believe in evolution" and "believe in the literal word of the Bible" mean very different things by the word "believe".

We are trying to cement the idea that we favour evolutionary theory because of what we have concluded from our own interpretation of the presented evidence. Not because we "believe" what someone else told us.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Yeah, well, practicing Christian here and I gotta say that whoever opts to not admit that evolution beats pretty much anything does not deserve to lug around that large a brain.

Most religious folks have the very concept of 'God' all ass backwards.