Poll: Feelings about the competitive meta-gaming community .

[Frokane]

Ive been playing video games since I was about 2 years old, and certain games Ive managed to get quite good at. But it was only when I started playing smash bros did I realise how seriously some people took 'getting really good at a game' and what is skill and what isnt.

This isnt a rant really, I just wanted to know how this part of the internet feels about the meta gaming community. Iam obviously not part of it, but I wouldnt describe myself as a casual gamer either, I dont mash buttons or anything like that. But when the only 'true test' of skill is just playing fox/sheik/marth on final destination with no items, I feel like the game is cut down for less people to enjoy it.

This has also put me off Tekken to a slightly lesser extent, but I walking around with the label that I play casually feels a little demeaning, I just play games as best as I can.

 

[Liquidprid3]

I think it's cool, but I don't have a big interest in it. Even if I did, my friends would rather play Smash with items on all the stages, as would I. Not saying we never do Final Destination with no items, but we have more fun in all out Melee. Or brawl, we play both. I don't really have an interest in one on one fighters, or MOBA's, which seem to be where most of the action is for meta games.

Honestly, people can play the game however they want. It doesn't bother me.

 

[shrekfan246]

I like the idea, but as with many things I think that humans have managed to completely balls up the actual execution of said idea.

I've had anger issues, to put it simply, in the past. They most often manifest when I play video games, because it's a time where I can just let everything out without really needing to consider what effect it might have on another person. This generally comes to a head when I'm playing competitive games, and I don't like how I feel in those moments. And I don't like what it turns many other people into either, because when it comes to competitive gaming then, in the words of Lord Junior, "If you're not first, you're last".

So, usually I just avoid competitive gaming and the communities associated with it altogether. But the idea of E-Sports and everything is legitimately pretty sweet.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

I've got to admit that I am mildly confused by all this.

The title of your thread says that it is a poll, but I can see no options to vote on anything.

Also, I thought that meta-game in the competitive scene meant understanding what is the common practice of the period in a certain game and trying to outthink it or outfox your opponent - like playing starcraft 2 and assuming that a Zerg player will immediately build up multiple bases against you, rather than attacking off one base (simplified for the sake of non-players of starcraft 2).

What is this community that you speak of around this?

I used to play smash with my sister and other family members and I got more enjoyment out of it being random, looking back on the experiences, but I often was the person who tried to make the game more serious than actually it was probably intended to be - in order to have a 'proper' fight, to see who was the best. Really that just isn't conducive in reality of playing as you tend to have vary varying skill levels between you and your friends - to use the starcraft 2 example again, I wouldn't go all out on someone who'd never played starcraft 2 before and smash them completely, so why would I do it in Smash Bros? It isn't really fun for the new person and not really a fulfilling victory for me. Just makes me look like a douche to be honest and will probably turn that person off the game.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I only complain when they absolutely refuse to let you enjoy the game. Most of the more competitive Smash Bros. players I know refuse to play with items on, refuse to allow certain stages, and throw an absolute hissy fit if you use certain tactics. I know that many of them can't get enjoyment out of the game unless it is played "properly", but when one guy, who is already going to be beating everyone down, forces the entire group to bow down to his demands of how to play the game, then it often makes me question the wisdom of letting that person come anywhere near the game. The fact that I have friends that get sponsored for tournaments in other fighting games yet don't act like that only makes the attitude of some Smash Bros. players worse. I know every game has people like that, but Smash Bros. does tend to make it easier to find them. However, that might just be because there are so many restrictions placed on Smash Bros. compared to what you can do that the attitude just becomes more noticeable.

Otherwise, so long as they too can enjoy the game and let others play how they want (or find a compromise so everyone is pleased), then I really don't mind the community. Sure, when I took games that seriously it completely removed my enjoyment from the game, but I can see how others really enjoy it.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

I only complain when they absolutely refuse to let you enjoy the game. Most of the more competitive Smash Bros. players I know refuse to play with items on, refuse to allow certain stages, and throw an absolute hissy fit if you use certain tactics. I know that many of them can't get enjoyment out of the game unless it is played "properly", but when one guy, who is already going to be beating everyone down, forces the entire group to bow down to his demands of how to play the game, then it often makes me question the wisdom of letting that person come anywhere near the game. The fact that I have friends that get sponsored for tournaments in other fighting games yet don't act like that only makes the attitude of some Smash Bros. players worse. I know every game has people like that, but Smash Bros. does tend to make it easier to find them. However, that might just be because there are so many restrictions placed on Smash Bros. compared to what you can do that the attitude just becomes more noticeable.

Otherwise, so long as they too can enjoy the game and let others play how they want (or find a compromise so everyone is pleased), then I really don't mind the community. Sure, when I took games that seriously it completely removed my enjoyment from the game, but I can see how others really enjoy it.

I felt the same towards my group experiences with Smash Bros.

And at the end of the day, I don't think it was designed or intended to be such a serious uptake. Sure there is variety and choice on all of these variables, but I definitely think that there are more random or 'unfair' deaths in Smash and it is naturally tries to be more chaotic. I always had more enjoyment with the randomness of it, than the overly tense and serious fights in it - and it's not that I lost them, I was really good at them (compared to my peers), so it wasn't like I was losing and raging.

I find a similar experience with mario kart, where items like the 'blue shell' are specifically put in there to add more variety to results and try to prevent the same guy just winning over and over because he is more skilled.

If you want a serious fighting or driving game or w/e I'd suggest you go buy one, rather than trying to make a game that isn't one, into one.

 

[Panthera]

I feel like it's pretty good and this thread is just going to be a circle jerk of people whining that other people doing their own thing somewhere else somehow hurts you

 

[Maximum Bert]

If im playing in a tournament of something that someone has organised ill obey the rules but for casual play nah I just do what I want play a rubbish character because I like them yup ill do that (I do have characters I tend to stick with whether they are good or bad) if its smash and people want items im ok with that if they want none im ok with that as well if there is a conflict we tend to just alternate.

With competitive games I will play with the competitive mind set as in I am playing to win but honestly I care more about having a good time. Being too competitive or just playing to clown around and annoy people are equally bad imo. Its possible to have fun and get good people who put the time in to get good have my respect its when they start dictating how the game is played and making excuses for their loses that bothers me. Some games do feature extraordinarily powerful characters however and it can be annoying to see everybody pick them because its the best way to win but then it is what it is, if I dont like that character though I will never join them I would rather take 100 straight loses and 1 win with a character I like than 100 wins and one loss with a character I hate.

 

[Elfgore]

I'm not a fan of meta in general. I think it kills not only the fun but any sort of creativity in games. It was one of the reasons I stopped playing magic. Everyone had meta decks and I had a deck I enjoyed using. Of course my deck got screwed every time. But I don't mind them existing. I just stay away from them.

 

[krazykidd]

Ive been playing video games since I was about 2 years old, and certain games Ive managed to get quite good at. But it was only when I started playing smash bros did I realise how seriously some people took 'getting really good at a game' and what is skill and what isnt.

This isnt a rant really, I just wanted to know how this part of the internet feels about the meta gaming community. Iam obviously not part of it, but I wouldnt describe myself as a casual gamer either, I dont mash buttons or anything like that. But when the only 'true test' of skill is just playing fox/sheik/marth on final destination with no items, I feel like the game is cut down for less people to enjoy it.

This has also put me off Tekken to a slightly lesser extent, but I walking around with the label that I play casually feels a little demeaning, I just play games as best as I can.

Are you talking about in general?
For SSB?
For competitive games ?

Anyways, i play a lot of fighting games and watch quite a few tournaments. You usually see a trend of people copying characters / playstyles of professionals. If someone wins a SF tournament using Ryu then you see a surge of Ryus. If someone wins with Sagat, you see a flux of Sagats. Not realising that pros choose a character they like, and stick with them , learn the ins an outs of the character. The good matchups and the bad ones. Ironically that means that the professionals are the ones doing it right. They play their character because they like them and it's fun. Yes they play to win, but they play the character they like before the overpowered one. And people will often say "he/she should pick x instead of y" but more often than not they don't because they like a character.

As for me, well i will always use characters no one uses. It makes victory more sweet. That and i like variety and being different. Sure i may have to work 20 % harder to win, but when i do win, it impresses people.

 

[an annoyed writer]

I like the idea, but as with many things I think that humans have managed to completely balls up the actual execution of said idea.

I've had anger issues, to put it simply, in the past. They most often manifest when I play video games, because it's a time where I can just let everything out without really needing to consider what effect it might have on another person. This generally comes to a head when I'm playing competitive games, and I don't like how I feel in those moments. And I don't like what it turns many other people into either, because when it comes to competitive gaming then, in the words of Lord Junior, "If you're not first, you're last".

So, usually I just avoid competitive gaming and the communities associated with it altogether. But the idea of E-Sports and everything is legitimately pretty sweet.

Took the words out of my mouth there. I, too, like the idea, but I'm not really the one who likes to do such things myself due to anger issues and other handicaps to the fun. I think it takes certain types of people to really enjoy the competitive side of gaming, and I'm just not one of them.

 

[StriderShinryu]

If the point of a game is to win, as in a competitive fighting game, then there really shouldn't be any limits until you start getting into things that are literally cheating. The games are a platform for competition and playing the game to the best of your abilities and trying to improve yourself is the intended way to experience them. That's not to say, of course, that players can't have fun if they're not playing a game at a high level or if they're simply mucking around, but to do so is clearly not playing the game they way it was meant to be played. Does this perhaps ostracize some people? Sure, but it's no different than any other sort of competitive platform, electronic or not.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I'm not a fan of meta in general. I think it kills not only the fun but any sort of creativity in games. It was one of the reasons I stopped playing magic. Everyone had meta decks and I had a deck I enjoyed using. Of course my deck got screwed every time. But I don't mind them existing. I just stay away from them.

God yeah the meta in magic thats why I always enjoyed the sealed deck tournaments more plus ofc a lot of the meta decks are insanely expensive and I would refuse to spend stupid money on cards. Sometimes it is possible to go against the grain though my most successful deck was built with only 4 rares the other 56 were commons it cost me next to nothing and got me in the top 5 of a 64 man tournament damn I loved that deck if I had spent a little more on it I reckon I could have won. I have actually never seen another deck like it to bad it cant be played now Dark ritual was a key component it wouldnt have the speed without it but yeah 12 damage on turn two was a very real possibility with it, it was super fast and I loved it if they were alive in turn 5 you had probably lost. Turn 3 or 4 was usually where you won.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

I've got to admit that I am mildly confused by all this.

The title of your thread says that it is a poll, but I can see no options to vote on anything.

Occasionally the forums will eat the poll, don't worry about it.

 

[Frokane]

If the point of a game is to win, as in a competitive fighting game, then there really shouldn't be any limits until you start getting into things that are literally cheating. The games are a platform for competition and playing the game to the best of your abilities and trying to improve yourself is the intended way to experience them. That's not to say, of course, that players can't have fun if they're not playing a game at a high level or if they're simply mucking around, but to do so is clearly not playing the game they way it was meant to be played. Does this perhaps ostracize some people? Sure, but it's no different than any other sort of competitive platform, electronic or not.

I agree, but the thing is, especially with SSB SOO many things are declared as unfair or cheating that, 90% of the stages are considered 'unfair' no items are allowed, and only 5-6 characters are really ever used, and of course that gets worse when people are forced to play as the same character to negate any character advantages, that REALLY takes the fun out of me wanting to play it.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

The meta-gaming community bugs me. It effectively divides the player base in two: those who pay attention to the meta and those who don't. There's no reason for each side to play against each other because they're in two different classes. Most of the time it's like backyard basketball guys going up against seasoned, college-level athletes. There is the occasional surprise, but in general, what's the point?

I've experienced this in Magic: the Gathering. If you're going to play competitively, you have to pay attention the meta. Period. You can't play a deck just because you like it, you have to play a deck top-tier archetype that the obsessed players have already figured out (these 2-3 types of decks are the only ones that can win in 4-5 turns, so that's what people will play if they want to win). The only way (that I've figured out) to express your personal creativity in the meta-game is finding a way to counter a popular deck choice. If you know that a certain top-tier archetype is really popular, you can build a deck that is really good at countering that deck type even if it normally wouldn't be a top-tier deck. But again, what if you just don't enjoy playing that type of deck? Too bad. Unless you want to lose, you have to play the meta-game.

I considered myself a great Smash Bros. player--I was the best among my circle of friends--but then I played against a serious, meta-gaming competition player and I was utterly decimated. I don't mind losing, but I do mind not standing a chance at all.

So yeah, meta-gaming divides the player base, which is annoying, but I accept it. Unless some meta-gamer calls me a "filthy casual" because I enjoy the game differently than he does; in those instances I want the meta-game to suck on it's own foot and die.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I think in cooperative competitive games it is absolutely necessary. If I'm playing league and somebody decides to go teemo, I hate them by default. They are hurting my experience of the game because they "just want to have fun." I have fun all the time playing champs that are at least vaguely viable in the roles that I play them in. Jungle Panth, Wukong, they're fun, and they actually add to a team unlike fucking tanky teemo mid. It isn't that hard.


Outside of that though, I don't think it's too important for casual players. Unless you're playing at a particular level, you should not be concerned about which Brawl character is the best.

(I am not bitter about the fact that I have to carry extremely hard as jungle over the past few weeks. Not bitter in the slightest.)

 

[Ice Car]

Go ahead and do whatever you want. Whatever floats your boat, you know. I have no right to judge you based on what you enjoy as a hobby, as long as you don't act like a fucking twat to everybody else because of it.

If you're passionate about Pokemon and the metagame, or maybe you're a professional fighting game player that participates in tourneys, and you wanna talk about it or discuss it, then fine! I love ya. You've found something you love, are passionate about, and constantly want to preach to others about! People like that make me happy. I'm fine with people doing what they want with their hobbies up until they start acting cocky or elitist, or act like a pretentious twat. I hate those people, and for the most part, they seem to comprise some of the public perspective of "metagame players" more than anybody else in the community.

I can see why people sort of have that connotation about these people. Because of both that negative impression they get from some, because of the alien-sort of terminology and language being spoken, and so on. It's just a lack of understanding, and the mentality that "these people take gaming too seriously" that all contributes to it, when in reality they just hate it because they don't understand it, or can't enjoy it. It's the same way people who play video games can't understand why people like sports, to me. I'm not saying this happens with all gamers, but I've seen others who have actually held sports in contempt for the same reasons they hold competitive gaming as such.