Poll: Games aren't gay enough.

[Bara_no_Hime]

0 well-written lesbians.

I dunno, I thought Fang and Vanille (FF 13) were fairly well written lesbians. No, they never come out and say that, but actions and body language tells it better anyway.

Also Lelianna from Dragon Age. Yes, she's technically bi, but her only previous sexual relationship of note is with a woman, so she sort of counts.

Otherwise... um... yeah, I'm having a hard time thinking of any either.

Then again, I'm a big fan of gameplay freedom. I like that I can play gay, straight or bi in Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Skyrim, and even Persona 3 Portable (although only with Elizabeth).

I am sad that there aren't more games that let the player choose their character's sexuality so freely.

Then again, as noted, Mass Effect 3 suffered from "late in the story gay characters". I am still upset that Mass Effect didn't let Tali or Garrus have gay relationships. I mean, Cortez and Samantha were nice, but they weren't your stalwart companions through three games, who you'd fought multiple life or death battles along side. Liara was, which is why her romance always feels more meaningful than any of the other gay options.

So yeah, there are a few good characters besides Kanji out there. But I'd like to see a lot more. And I'd have liked an option to have the MC romance Kanji in addition to his various female conquests.

Edit: Wow. My Report Button just got a lot of exercise in this thread. Yikes. Also a new resident on my Ignore list. Seriously, what is wrong with some people?

 

[sethisjimmy]

I think the problem is that gays are a fairly small minority, so when writing a "closed" main character (a character in which the player doesn't make any choices about them or who they are or what they do), the default is mostly straight, because most of the developers are likely straight, and most of the audience is straight, and I guess they feel the player is more likely to relate to the character if it is his/her same sexuality. I personally wouldn't have a problem playing a gay character but I suppose if it comes down to choice I'd prefer a straight character, so I see the developer's logic.

Another thing that must be considered is that sexuality is not necessary for a lot of characters. Unless romance is involved or it's a specific plot point, I don't think there should be reason to bring up whether the character is straight or gay.

I don't know if it this is a bad thing. I know it's good that game companies show support for gays, but I think if they want to make straight characters for their own reasons it's all up to them. If there was a bigger demand for more gay characters I think it would happen, but like I said, that audience is a minority.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I bet Star Fox could be gay if you really wanted him to be, nothing ever said he was straight.

K-Krystal...oh god...*vomits*

I won't say "herp derp we need to have good heterosexual relationships first" because (in case you haven't noticed) the medium is not a single entity that gets better at writing because one guy wrote something well. MegaGaySexyTimes Games is not waiting to start developing their magnum opus because the games industry hasn't leveled its INT enough. It will happen because somebody does it. And somebody else does it. And somebody else. And somebody else.

 

[krazykidd]

And in all honesty , Without relying on emotion . Whats the difference between heterosexuality / homosexuality and pedophilia?

The difference is is that heterosexuality and homosexuality is mostly expressed through a loving relationship between 2 consenting adults, and pedophilia is often expressed through the abuse and rape of innocent children and I can't believe I've had to say that more than once now.

Those are the rules of the society we live in . Rules that are constantly changing . It has absolutely nothig to do with the "nature" of things . People didn't like the idea , thus it's illegal . You were taught to hate pedophilia , therefor you do . Just like generation before you were taught to hate homosexuality . Like i said in my previous post . At a basic level , there is no difference . The difference lies on an emotional , therefor subjective level .

 

[Sneezeburger]

It boils my blood when people compare being gay to pedophilia.

And in all honesty , Without relying on emotion . Whats the difference between heterosexuality / homosexuality and pedophilia?

The difference is is that heterosexuality and homosexuality is mostly expressed through a loving relationship between 2 consenting adults, and pedophilia is often expressed through the abuse and rape of innocent children and I can't believe I've had to say that more than once now.

I'm just gonna give you a big pointy stick and enough snacks to survive while you repeatedly explain why pedophilia is evil, disgusting crime and doesn't have any relationship to do with being gay, straight or bi any more than if your a vegan - before jabbing them in the eyes till they get it.
Because i honestly don't have as much patience as you.
Don't they teach people this stuff?

I'm gay. And I honestly like it to be a part of a character not THE character. I possess various qualities beyond my sexuality, as do heterosexuals.
-SNIP-

Sums it up perfectly.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Yes, absolutely.

Aside from the ideological points involved, more gay characters is likely to mean developers putting in more effort to make their male characters sexy, and I'm always in favor of that.

 

[mgirl]

Those are the rules of the society we live in . Rules that are constantly changing . It has absolutely nothig to do with the "nature" of things . People didn't like the idea , thus it's illegal . You were taught to hate pedophilia , therefor you do . Just like generation before you were taught to hate homosexuality . Like i said in my previous post . At a basic level , there is no difference . The difference lies on an emotional , therefor subjective level .

Do you really think that the rape of a child is completely the same as a consentual sex in every objective way? Really? Never mind the fact they don't consent, don't want to be raped, and it leaves both emotional and physical scars? Never mind the fact that those who suffer from abuse as children often never get over it?

I already explained the difference in my previous post, and if you claim that is only 'emotional' then you need to reread it.

I'm just gonna give you a big pointy stick and enough snacks to survive while you repeatedly explain why pedophilia is evil, disgusting crime and doesn't have any relationship to do with being gay, straight or bi any more than if your a vegan - before jabbing them in the eyes till they get it

Hah, I'll get right on it.

 

[Rascarin]

And in all honesty , Without relying on emotion . Whats the difference between heterosexuality / homosexuality and pedophilia?

The difference is is that heterosexuality and homosexuality is mostly expressed through a loving relationship between 2 consenting adults, and pedophilia is often expressed through the abuse and rape of innocent children and I can't believe I've had to say that more than once now.

Those are the rules of the society we live in . Rules that are constantly changing . It has absolutely nothig to do with the "nature" of things . People didn't like the idea , thus it's illegal . You were taught to hate pedophilia , therefor you do . Just like generation before you were taught to hate homosexuality . Like i said in my previous post . At a basic level , there is no difference . The difference lies on an emotional , therefor subjective level .

The difference is that it is proven that victims of paedophilia - the children who are raped/abused, etc - suffer for it. This is a fact.

The same is NOT true of homosexual relationships. A child cannot understand sex, and thus cannot give consent. Homsexual relationships are consentual, and are not harmful.

Yes, some people may be born as paedophiles and unable to help their feelings. However, actions as a result of these feelings are harmful.

Comparing homosexuality and transgender issues to paedophilia and bestiality? You are wrong, sir. Completely wrong.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

It boils my blood when people compare being gay to pedophilia.

Likewise. The best response is to Report and Ignore. That's what I did. Others have already called the individuals in the thread out on their actions - now's the time to bring the Mods down on those who are being offensive.

Click Report, then add to ignore list (well, you don't need to do that second part, but I find it helps my blood pressure).

**snip**

Ditto. Make sure that, after your response that you use that Report button. The only way to keep offensive behavior (like this) off of the Escapist is to Report it when it happens.

 

[Thistlehart]

And in all honesty , Without relying on emotion . Whats the difference between heterosexuality / homosexuality and pedophilia?

The difference is is that heterosexuality and homosexuality is mostly expressed through a loving relationship between 2 consenting adults, and pedophilia is often expressed through the abuse and rape of innocent children and I can't believe I've had to say that more than once now.

Those are the rules of the society we live in . Rules that are constantly changing . It has absolutely nothig to do with the "nature" of things . People didn't like the idea , thus it's illegal . You were taught to hate pedophilia , therefor you do . Just like generation before you were taught to hate homosexuality . Like i said in my previous post . At a basic level , there is no difference . The difference lies on an emotional , therefor subjective level .

While yes, society is always in a state of flux, I hesitate to concur with your implication that, eventually, sex with children will be acceptable, despite the harm it does/may do.

Could we simply be spouting off learned attitudes? Perhaps. Might those who were victims of child molesters be less damaged/traumatized if society didn't see these things as horrific and sick? It is certainly possible. Is it likely you're going to be able to appeal to people with this sort of logic, right now, with attitudes being what they are? Highly unlikely. Should you try to be less ham-handed in explaining your points? Most certainly.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, however, you are also saying something else.

heterosexual sex = socially acceptable & objectively harmless
homosexual sex = recently socially acceptable & objectively harmless
sex with a child = currently socially unacceptable but objectively harmless

ergo

sex with a child is objectively no different than sex with a consenting adult.

I think, that in order to get your point across, you are going to have to provide compelling arguments that having sex with a child is not potentially harmful and also that children are capable of providing consistent legal consent. As it is, society, and in many cases the medical and psychological community, believe it is quite harmful. Granted, the same groups used to (and in some cases still do) think the same thing about homosexuality, and many of those ideas are being proven groundless.

Considering that, I must point out to you that, whatever your logic is on the matter, when you compare homosexuals to pedophiles (pedophile =/= child molester, but often people fail to recognize the difference) you are (to put it bluntly) pissing in people's Cheerios.

Edit: I need to work on my proofreading.

 

[Maxtro]

I would simply not play a game that had a homosexual lead.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Are people nuts? The reason why homosexuality is different from pedophilia is because pedophilia is not consensual while gay sex is between two consenting adults.

I'm worried that I have to point this out at all, come on guys. :|

OT: I get annoyed with how much lesbian pandering to men there is in games especially since it feels like there is a lack of straight relationships for central female characters like Lara Croft.

 

[Zaik]

Considering that the actual percentage of the world population that is gay is something like 1%-10%, I find it odd that it comes up as often as it does.

Seems pretty 4th wall breaking to just cram a gay character into everything just to appease the pc police.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

While I agree that the comparison is rather... shitty, they are right in the sense that pedophilia is a sexual preference (and a perversion, mind) and both homosexuality and heterosexuality are defined as sexual preferences.

Pedophilia is a desire to rape.* It may not be an individual's fault, but it is an inherently destructive desire. Rape always causes harm. Even if the individual never acts on the urge, it will likely have an effect on their mind, leading to, as you noted, potential suicide.

I will not stand silent while people use technicalities as a defense while they compare gay people (like myself) to rapists.

I will not stand silent while people use the proven-wrong slippery-slope fallacy to attack the gay community.

And I will Report any who attempt the above. Because they are homophobes hiding behind rational language and fallacious argument, and I will not stand silent and let homophobes attack me or those like me.

Edit: Oh, and one last thing. When people use the word pedophilia, 99.9% of the time, they mean those who have acted on it and raped one or more children. You can say "oh, it's a technicality, it's just a preference" all you like, but that's not what the purpose of using the argument you're defending is. The purpose is to compare gay people to rapists in the minds of that 99.9%, not to argue about the 0.1% who separate the meanings between desire from action.

Edit 2: * That is, the only way to fulfill such a desire would be to cause harm to a child. I do not mean to say that all pedophiles are rapists - many choose to be better people than that and never act on their desires. Why? Because they know that to act on it would he harmful. I do not mean to be insulting to those who choose not to harm, and I'm sorry if I implied otherwise.

 

[Fappy]

I came away from Persona 4 thinking Kanji was more likely bisexual than anything else. He's actually one of my favorite characters from that game. It is probably the best the topic of sexual identity has ever been addressed in a mainstream game.

In my opinion games don't need more gay for the sake of it, they need more gay where it feels natural to the story. If you want your game to have commentary on contemporary culture it works well.

 

[mew4ever23]

I see what you're saying, but it's really, really pointless. I'm not gonna care much about a character's sexuality while I'm busy defeating that massive dragon over there and saving the planet for the umpteenth time.

Give me a well written character that's likable, and I will like them. Otherwise... let's just say I will find a way to murder them.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

This is one of the things that irks me about gaming and media in general. When there is an obvious absence of a certain gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc., people tend to blame the creators of such media for being racist, [insert sexual orientation here]-phobes/phobic, anti-[insert religion here], etc. So some developers will just include an arbitrary or token character in the next work and people would either finally quiet down or complain about the lack of importance the token character has.

Listen people, if a certain gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc. is not featured in some media production, it's nothing personal; the creators just decided that they were not going to include that gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc. in the game and forcefully doing so will just diminish the integrity of the work as a whole. I'm glad that there are games like Persona 4 that dares to not only explore the sexuality of a main character, but also do it well. That doesn't mean that every game before it that didn't is bad, and it shows that games could be used as a medium to both explore and learn about other subjects including gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc.

In all my fictional works, to this day, I have only created one gay character and she is awesome. She's likable, funny, headstrong, caring, flirtatious, AND a lesbian. I didn't intend to portray her as a lesbian, I just did. Her sexuality doesn't play a huge role in the story, but the way she interacts with other characters and the way she approaches the world would have been completely different if she were straight, and even then, she would still be an awesome character.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

Okay my comments were hurtful, I kinda meant for it to be because I'm a bit of a hateful prick. However I still want an answer to this resolved. People are born gay, can discover they are gay or move through a phase. They are called gay. people could be born a paedophile, discover they are one or move through a phase and these people are hated and abused rather than given the means to reform themselves. If its a sickness cure it, just remember that people once considered being gay an illness.

@mgirl It was my ignorance that caused that. I was unaware that paedophiles had to rape or whatever. I believed it was just the term for having sex with an under-age partner.

uh huh...so now your back peddling out of that double hole you dug

because you then took another non conventional but harmless relationship (age difference) and compared it to paedophilia...nice going

weather or not paedophelia is a sickness (it seems more like an unfortunate fetish but I'm no experet) It still should not be compared to homosexuality because aside from the "harms no one" factor..."what to do with paedophiles" is a SEPERATE issue alltogther...in regards to that people should understand you cant make people just "go away" there needs to be a solution for those to prevent them from offending...

I'm also somwhat bothered by your previous comments about england...I mean I could just as easyly say "well where I come from furries are everywhere and completly open about it! whats the problem bro?"

I don't see myself in a hole. people got offended by words I said on the internet. Oh my bleeding heart. Thank you for answering my question however and resolving the matter. I now know more than I did before which is why we ask questions. I can finally give my opinion on gay in games.

Its alright as it is. The few non-cliche characters we have are enough for now so long as a big deal isn't made of it. I had my suspicions of Dethmold in the Witcher but only had these confirmed when I burst into his room and let Roche chop his balls off then slit his throat. Not because he was gay but because he he was a dickhead.

As for the stuff about 'where I live' thats the point. I make my assumptions based on what I've experienced and like I said I never noticed a big deal. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though but its just that in my area I've never seen nor heard of anything about stuff like drastic beatings of people. Each new experience is something to consider and revise my opinions upon.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm very bisexual (well, kind of pansexual with my various kinks) and am not meaning to insult any sexuality, but heterosexuality and homosexuality mean what? You are attracted to certain groups. It doesn't mean you want to rape them. So while any act a pedophile committed on a child would indeed be rape (a child can never consent) it's hurtful to say they WANT to rape anyone.

My problem is, if we keep treating pedophiles and child molesters like synonyms, we will never get closer to helping prevent the problem. We need to allow people with desires to come forward and help them not to act on them.

Can you see where I'm coming from? I want to help people that want help, not defend child molesters.

See my Edited post above. You are part of that 0.1% who understands the difference in that definition. You are not the target of the slippery-slope argument. That argument exists for one and only one purpose - to create fear about homosexuals and bisexuals like yourself and myself.

You can try to help people all you like. I'm going to go on with my attacks on those homophobes who hide behind paper thin definitions and subtle manipulation of facts to slander the gay community. On this forum, that means Reporting them.

 

[Sneezeburger]

While I agree that the comparison is rather... shitty, they are right in the sense that pedophilia is a sexual preference (and a perversion, mind) and both homosexuality and heterosexuality are defined as sexual preferences.

Pedophilia is a desire to rape. It may not be an individual's fault, but it is an inherently destructive desire. Rape always causes harm. Even if the individual never acts on the urge, it will likely have an effect on their mind, leading to, as you noted, potential suicide.

I will not stand silent while people use technicalities as a defense while they compare gay people (like myself) to rapists.

I will not stand silent while people use the proven-wrong slippery-slope fallacy to attack the gay community.

And I will Report any who attempt the above. Because they are homophobes hiding behind rational language and fallacious argument, and I will not stand silent and let homophobes attack me or those like me.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm very bisexual (well, kind of pansexual with my various kinks) and am not meaning to insult any sexuality, but heterosexuality and homosexuality mean what? You are attracted to certain groups. It doesn't mean you want to rape them. So while any act a pedophile committed on a child would indeed be rape (a child can never consent) it's hurtful to say they WANT to rape anyone.

My problem is, if we keep treating pedophiles and child molesters like synonyms, we will never get closer to helping prevent the problem. We need to allow people with desires to come forward and help them not to act on them.

Can you see where I'm coming from? I want to help people that want help, not defend child molesters.

@Boudica

I have to say, regardless of if i agree or not - i respect you at least articulating your arguement honestly and as unoffensively as possible.

In terms of humanity, your probably right. But whoever has the job of re-educating or reforming or whatever it is we do to help people born that way..i wouldn't want it.

I think its a difficult issue, and frankly most of the discussion over it comes from people without the right mix of Objectivity and Experience (a pretty impossible request i know) that would conclude a truly 'correct' answer.

But i have to say when i hear the word pedophile i think active child predator. As do a lot of people, maybe a different word for people who have noticed there perversion but have not acted upon it, and wish help? I know pedophile is already the correct term for that but i think its been redefined as an active child rapist in alot (too many to change) peoples minds.

I don't know, honestly.