Poll: Games aren't gay enough.

[Mr Pantomime]

You make a good point False Nobility. It would be nice to see more diversity in terms of characters in games. However, I don't think its because of any malice on the developers part. Its just lazy writing or plain writing. For example, there are no women in Stalker: Call of Pripyat. None are even mentioned. Now I don't think that the people at GSC are misogynists. They probably didn't want to build female character models, and didn't really think about adding a women into the game.

I think we might start to see more gay main characters in the near future, but only as a marketing stunt to create controversy. After that, we will hopefully see some good gay main character. Just remember that most games are struggling with the "female protaganist" thing.

Back to being serious a girl in my class was 14 when she had a 19 year old boyfriend, nothing happened other than usual bullshit relationship arguments. No one got hurt. In fact she hung around with all the girl who were like that. I wouldn't call it common but the fact I'm trying to put across is that a sexual predator isn't the term for this. Nobody was harmed.

I feel I should point out that what you're describing isn't Paedophilia, it's good old Statutory Rape. Its quite a big difference. Paedophilia is an mental condition adult being attracted to Pre-pubesants, while Statutory Rape is a law.

Also, you can compare Homosexuality and Paedophilia if you want, but it doesn't make much sense in context.
Edit1: I actually kind of see the point you're trying to make VW93. At Paedophilia used to be ok, but its now considered a sickness, while with Homosexuality its the other way around. I mean, the Greeks used to fuck kids, and we still like them, and put a lot of weight in the philosophy. Lots of them were gay too but thats neither here nor there.Its good to look at how society's perspective can change. Its an interesting discussion to have, but nows not really the time for it. Its a super awkward conversation to have as well.

Edit2: Im actually very disappointed in the amount of people saying "No, I don't want homosexuality to be shoved in my face". I expected better really.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I think it needs to go with the story and fit the character. That is the biggest mistake the entertainment industry has done so far with this issue. It seems like some are staying away from it while others are jumping on the "Gay" wagon.

Let me put it this way... would you want Kratos, God of War with the sexual appetite of a bunny from the depths of hell.

Spoiler

turn into this?

Spoiler

I wouldn't...

Now don't get me wrong. I do love gay characters. Fenris from Dragon Age is hot and has a personality type that would warrant such a sexual preference. He has issues with connecting to people, but if he does become connected it is a very powerful one.

Spoiler

and I do love how well he can be cosplayed

Spoiler

Perhaps I just prefer my boys skinny and weak looking compared to the stomping hulks that most men appear like in video games.

 

[rhintintin]

Many characters in computer games are not really depicted as having a sexuality. In the Tomb Raider games was Lara Croft depicted as being heterosexual (I don't actually know having only played 10 mins of any of the games)? Duke Nukem was certainly straight, or at least was massively over compensating for being gay. Mario is interested in the Princess but Luigi we never know.

In Lemmings there were hundreds of the little buggers, there is a high chance some of those were gay or lesbian. Ryu and Ken are depicted as friends but in their chosen profession perhaps coming out would be a bad idea, especially as E Honda strikes me as being a potential homophobe. Maybe the twist at the end of Half Life episode 3 is that Gordon Freeman's first words will be "I've got something to tell you all. I'm gay"?!

On a more serious note, I'm happy to have more gays and lesbians in games but I wouldn't want to have it as some gimmicky inclusion. There is representation in games such as Grand Theft Auto when there is a big cast. I certainly don't think the industry has made a decision not to have gay heroes. Otherwise, why would we have Link?

 

[MortisLegio]

I vote that the sexuality of the character isn't important unless it's relevant to the plot or characters. In games that explore character back-stories and it has an effect on them in game, I have no problem with gay characters. If the player builds there own character and can choose their sexuality, than the character can be gay. But, in games where that has NO bearing on the plot or character development/interactions than I would say no.

Simplified: If being gay is not relevant to the story or characters than it's not needed.

 

[Vault101]

I think it needs to go with the story and fit the character. That is the biggest mistake the entertainment industry has done so far with this issue. It seems like some are staying away from it while others are jumping on the "Gay" wagon.

Let me put it this way... would you want Kratos, God of War with the sexual appetite of a bunny from the depths of hell.

Spoiler

turn into this?

Spoiler

I wouldn't...

Now don't get me wrong. I do love gay characters. Fenris from Dragon Age is hot and has a personality type that would warrant such a sexual preference. He has issues with connecting to people, but if he does become connected it is a very powerful one.

.

who says Kratos would be any different if he was gay?.....in fact I can kind of see it...he is ancient greek after all

 

[WanderingFool]

DEATHAGEDDON, LORD OF BONES

*snrk* teehee

Lord of Bones.

...What?...

I see it now... and I blame you.

Anyways, I dont see why there needs to be. Well, thats not to say there shouldnt, but while I havent played Persona 4 (or any actually), but as I did watch that episode of EC where they did talk about that character, and can say this:

Spoiler

In the case of that character, it was a part of the game, not a token bit of backstory that was put out there and left alone, you actually fight a being that reprsents his own fear of being viewed as gay. Though, as I havent played the game, Im not sure if he is actually gay, or is just scared of people not seeing him as the manly badass he wants to think of himself as.

Really, if you start including gay men and women or making main characters gay, just so they're there, its not gonna solve anything... if you are going to include gay characters, make it somewhat relevant, otherwise, its just useless details that can be dropped for more important ones.

 

[Jammy2003]

That is a huge, ENORMOUS falsification and exaggeration, the only stats we have indicate that 4% of people are exclusively gay, worldwide. If you count bisexuals you are looking at 7.5%. So you are way off there.

Not sure what you're going off of, but I'm guessing wikipedia or the source it used which is...well, flawed.

The confirmed percentage increase a little each year, suggesting people were simply lying. And most american's think it's what I said, reflecting that there are clearly a lot of gay people out there, many of whom keep it under wraps, contradicting the statistical with the personal:


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

This article supports the questionable statistic, but I just wanted to point out how many people support this idea that there are more gays than the numbers support.

Several sources state percentages over what I said, some under what you said, some in between. I shouldn't have brought percentages into it, I guess. A statistic on this sort of thing won't be accurate for another hundred years, really. I apologize for that.

Most LGBT members say that the overestimate is a good thing, as it shows people are starting to know more and more openly gay people and accepting them. So...I guess at least it's a good thing to be wrong about? I dunno lol.

That article doesn't support the statistic of 30% at all! It says that "U.S. adults, on average, estimate that 25 percent of Americans are gay or lesbian", but then goes on to say only 4% of those surveyed in 2011 guessed in the correct band of "Under 5%"

Sure, I imagine it is probably higher than 5% if everyone answered honestly, but no where near as much as 1/3 of the population

OT: Don't really have an issue with it going either way, I just want better written characters in general. If my character is a gay male, then establish that well enough as a PART of his personality and I'll be happy to play the game. I tire of 1 dimensional characters though, where one characteristic of their personality is picked and that is what defines them as a person. I've never met someone like that in real life, let alone found it to be the norm!

Basically, if it fits the story, then include appropriate characters. If it doesn't, don't. Either way, just make sure people are round out to be actual people. Not walking slabs of muscle/sex appeal/desire for revenge/selfless hero of the world, and actual people with personalities, desires and doubts.

 

[Stormcloud23]

Why isn't there a "Holy shit, who gives a fuck what consenting adults like to do in the privacy of their own home." option....

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Not only games need more gay.

There needs to be more gay in general media. It shouldn't be only tiny little indie movies that have gay protagonists. Having a gay protagonist should just be one of things you can write without worry of reprisal. Sitcom gay people who aren't just massive flaming camp fairies but actual people who struggle with their sexuality in a world that doesn't accept them.

I've actually sometimes thought that games are kind of ahead in terms of the rest of the media in this regard. Have a gay relationship in Mass Effect and it's just another relationship (in-game, not meta) no different than if you shagged Miranda (as a guy). Try and name any other mainstream media property where the main character just 'had' a gay relationship and it wasn't made into a huge deal. I can't think of a single one where the relationship wasn't the focus, and usually ended badly.

 

[Xaio30]

A character shouldn't be man, woman, hetero, gay or bi just for the sake of having more of such characters.
Forcing these things almost never turn out alright.

I could not care less about if the main/side characters were gay.

 

[surg3n]

Depends on the game. Most of the time in gaming, sexuality is not a factor. Could Marcus Phoenix be gay? - of course, have you seen him with any girlfriends?. What about Master Chief?, is Cortana some sort of holographic beard?

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that. Moreover, most of the time that there is a gay character, he has to be overtly gay, like camp, over the top - GTA games are like this every time.
The point is, how do we know that these people are or aren't gay?, if sex is not a factor in the game, then why do we need to be inundated with stereotypes in order to avoid offending 'stereotypes'.

It's the same with all media though, every single gay character ever, who isn't a prison-shower-rapist, is camp and obvious. Every young gay man depicted on TV is camp and obvious, in fact they are oblivious - Just watch The Middle, or My Family, and there will at some point be a storyline where someones daughter dates some gay kid who doesn't know he's gay, but everyone else does, and blah blah blah. Is this some sort of media equality? - I want no part of it, it's not just demeaning to homosexuals, it's demeaning to anyone everywhere who has a brain.

So I guess my whole point is NO. We don't need specifically gay characters in videogames, just like we don't need specifically hetero characters in videogames. If sex is a factor, we tend to get the choice, and it doesn't involve camping up the main character or anything cheesy like that. Games that have sex as a factor at least try to avoid stereotypes I think - granted, sometimes it's just creepy, like in Fable when you go into a classroom and the male teacher starts flirting with you, in front of all the kids, and the kids start to get afraid... there's some creepy, weird stuff going on if you look closely at the original Fable .

Captcha: Lager Frenzy
I wish!

 

[theblindedhunter]

Perhaps I just prefer my boys skinny and weak looking compared to the stomping hulks that most men appear like in video games.

Just to jump in and say: this is one of the more annoying things to be found in the world, I think - that the culture as a whole is "accepting" of certain (stereotypical) men who are gay, but not of others.
It's especially annoying because it reinforces itself, I think. It seems to me that at school ages boys that are effeminate or "camp" are pushed into declaring themselves gay because everyone expects them to be, even if they may not. Boys that are tough or heavy set, on the other hand, are essentially forced into either hiding the fact or never having to confront it. Since the ones we expect to identify as gay are made to, it reinforces the cycle.
Not that I think you in particular don't recognize this, just made me think about it.

A little more on-topic, I'd be all for more gay characters, male and female (and other I suppose). In a lot of things it probably isn't "necessary" to the characterization of an individual, but it would be nice to make more people feel more accepted, and give them characters they may feel more connected to. Personally I often have a particular liking for well done lesbian characters, because it makes me think of a good friend of mine.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I think it needs to go with the story and fit the character. That is the biggest mistake the entertainment industry has done so far with this issue. It seems like some are staying away from it while others are jumping on the "Gay" wagon.

Let me put it this way... would you want Kratos, God of War with the sexual appetite of a bunny from the depths of hell.

Spoiler

turn into this?

Spoiler

I wouldn't...

Now don't get me wrong. I do love gay characters. Fenris from Dragon Age is hot and has a personality type that would warrant such a sexual preference. He has issues with connecting to people, but if he does become connected it is a very powerful one.

.

who says Kratos would be any different if he was gay?.....in fact I can kind of see it...he is ancient greek after all

It might just be me. I picture him absolutely tearing up a man violently during sex. Its unnerving to me.

 

[Overusedname]

That is a huge, ENORMOUS falsification and exaggeration, the only stats we have indicate that 4% of people are exclusively gay, worldwide. If you count bisexuals you are looking at 7.5%. So you are way off there.

Not sure what you're going off of, but I'm guessing wikipedia or the source it used which is...well, flawed.

The confirmed percentage increase a little each year, suggesting people were simply lying. And most american's think it's what I said, reflecting that there are clearly a lot of gay people out there, many of whom keep it under wraps, contradicting the statistical with the personal:


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

This article supports the questionable statistic, but I just wanted to point out how many people support this idea that there are more gays than the numbers support.

Several sources state percentages over what I said, some under what you said, some in between. I shouldn't have brought percentages into it, I guess. A statistic on this sort of thing won't be accurate for another hundred years, really. I apologize for that.

Most LGBT members say that the overestimate is a good thing, as it shows people are starting to know more and more openly gay people and accepting them. So...I guess at least it's a good thing to be wrong about? I dunno lol.

That article doesn't support the statistic of 30% at all! It says that "U.S. adults, on average, estimate that 25 percent of Americans are gay or lesbian", but then goes on to say only 4% of those surveyed in 2011 guessed in the correct band of "Under 5%"

Sure, I imagine it is probably higher than 5% if everyone answered honestly, but no where near as much as 1/3 of the population

I didn't say that article supported it at all either. I even noted explicitly that it DID support the questionable statistic of 5%.

It just brought up the fact that most people guess around that amount, which brings the statistic into major questioning. It contradicts the average experience by a massive margin. That's all. I just wanted to emphasize how worthless statistics on this are, and that I shouldn't have brought it up...Which is why I apologized for it...So....yeah. Sorry.

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that.

This made me lol, so thanks. XD

 

[everythingbeeps]

Well it's tough to say. On the one hand, I would say "as long as it's not gratuitous", but most of the straight stuff in games is gratuitous. So I won't say that then.

More gratuitous gay please!

 

[RJ 17]

In other news, games aren't feminine enough, aren't black enough, aren't Russian enough, are Hispanic enough, aren't rich enough, aren't poor enough, aren't Mongolian enough...see where this is going?

It's called target audience. You can either pander to a select few (i.e. the gay community when compared to the rest of the world) or you can create a product that has appeal to a broader swath of the audience. Now, I'd have to hope that the gaming community is mature enough (pffffft...nope, couldn't say it with a straight face) to judge a game based on its merrits and not the sexual preferences of its main (or supporting) characters. But ask yourself this: in how many games does sexual preference even matter? Could you not, for shits and giggles, pretend the protagonist of Black Ops is a homosexual? There's certainly nothing that says he isn't. I bet Star Fox could be gay if you really wanted him to be, nothing ever said he was straight.

I can only imagine that the reason games don't specifically write in gay characters is because sex and sexual preferences have absolutely nothing to do with the game they're creating.

Edit: This ties in very well with Notch declaring that Steve and all the animals in Minecraft are homosexual hermaphrodites. Yeah, they could be, but the major point of what he was saying is that in his game, sex and sexuality have no purpose or meaning, so it's pointless trying to put lables on them in such a way.

 

[Vault101]

Depends on the game. Most of the time in gaming, sexuality is not a factor. Could Marcus Phoenix be gay? - of course, have you seen him with any girlfriends?. What about Master Chief?, is Cortana some sort of holographic beard?

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that. Moreover, most of the time that there is a gay character, he has to be overtly gay, like camp, over the top - GTA games are like this every time.
The point is, how do we know that these people are or aren't gay?, if sex is not a factor in the game, then why do we need to be inundated with stereotypes in order to avoid offending 'stereotypes'.

I've kind of already said it but this irks me somewhat

"I play games because-" yeah sure..thats great..for you .....but then would you say the same things about movies?

if the creator wants to put it in for a reason (a valid one at least from their perspective) then by all means

like the sex scene in the Mass Effect 1...now regardless if you think it was fine/awful, it had a point,and I feel stuff like that needs to be done, to break down peoples reluctance to have certain issues in any media

again....just a pet peeve of mine

 

[pffh]

I think it needs to go with the story and fit the character. That is the biggest mistake the entertainment industry has done so far with this issue. It seems like some are staying away from it while others are jumping on the "Gay" wagon.

Let me put it this way... would you want Kratos, God of War with the sexual appetite of a bunny from the depths of hell.

Spoiler

turn into this?

Spoiler

I wouldn't...

Now don't get me wrong. I do love gay characters. Fenris from Dragon Age is hot and has a personality type that would warrant such a sexual preference. He has issues with connecting to people, but if he does become connected it is a very powerful one.

.

who says Kratos would be any different if he was gay?.....in fact I can kind of see it...he is ancient greek after all

Wasn't he a Spartan? Since yeah that kinda guarantees that he has sex with men. Other big burly spartan men all oiled up for the fight and.... sorry drifted off there for a moment.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Perhaps I just prefer my boys skinny and weak looking compared to the stomping hulks that most men appear like in video games.

Just to jump in and say: this is one of the more annoying things to be found in the world, I think - that the culture as a whole is "accepting" of certain (stereotypical) men who are gay, but not of others.
It's especially annoying because it reinforces itself, I think. It seems to me that at school ages boys that are effeminate or "camp" are pushed into declaring themselves gay because everyone expects them to be, even if they may not. Boys that are tough or heavy set, on the other hand, are essentially forced into either hiding the fact or never having to confront it. Since the ones we expect to identify as gay are made to, it reinforces the cycle.
Not that I think you in particular don't recognize this, just made me think about it.
/quote]

I had some trouble at the beginning, but I do now. I was shocked when I learned Vin Diesel was bi. Its not like I didn't get that looks don't force sexual preference, I just didn't see the attraction so it never really occurred to me.

But like I said earlier I think a gay character needs to fit the character's personality.

 

[Vault101]

It's called target audience. You can either pander to a select few (i.e. the gay community when compared to the rest of the world) or you can create a product that has appeal to a broader swath of the audience

who says that having a certain element in a game is somehow pandering or makes it unappealing for a broader audience?

Fallout New Vegas had two gay companions and a protagonist hwo could be gay/bi attracted to ghouls or techno-sexual (testing out Fisto the sex bot more than once if you know what I mean)

was that game pandering or somwho unappealing to most people? what about mass effect?

just because something is there does not make it pandering, and who says that straight people cant play as or in a game with gay people? who says white people can't play a game with black people in it?

if that really were the case then as a female I'd hardly play any games ever...

I get what your saying from a marketing perspecitve..but generally it doesn't have to be that way