Poll: Gender Identity

[teamcharlie]

Refuse to answer the poll. My apologies if that makes it inappropriate for me to comment (I generally categorize gender as 'personal information' and I'm not big on putting personal info on surveys on the internet when I can avoid it). Side question though:

Any thoughts as to why the trans community is overwhelmingly (at least as far as public image is concerned) trans female as opposed to trans male? The standard story suggests that 'female' is a very problematic identity and is in the subordinate position to the 'male' identity. Rationally, it would seem to follow that people would want to be recognized as a member of the dominant identity, but that doesn't seem to be how it works out in practice. (Jerry Seinfeld voice) What's the deal with that?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Which is fine!

However, the topic at hand is "Identity" which I find isn't the same as "What is your technical gender".

I dunno, the term "identity" seems to be used a lot for that sort of thing.

 

[Zak757]

Refuse to answer the poll. My apologies if that makes it inappropriate for me to comment (I generally categorize gender as 'personal information' and I'm not big on putting personal info on surveys on the internet when I can avoid it). Side question though:

Any thoughts as to why the trans community is overwhelmingly (at least as far as public image is concerned) trans female as opposed to trans male? The standard story suggests that 'female' is a very problematic identity and is in the subordinate position to the 'male' identity. Rationally, it would seem to follow that people would want to be recognized as a member of the dominant identity, but that doesn't seem to be how it works out in practice. (Jerry Seinfeld voice) What's the deal with that?

Just eyeballing it here: all the transwoman I've met online, as well as my cousin, are overwhelmingly composed of geeks. Websites like this attract geeks. I don't think the ratio between trans men and women are this great when you take everyone into account.

 

[Evil Moo]

As with every time a thread that involves gender identity comes up here, I still don't really get what it is.

I am biologically male, so to identify as anything else would simply be inaccurate. At the same time I don't feel like classing myself as cis-male, as it would seem to imply that there is some secondary characteristic that can either align with or against the biological traits. I don't feel this to be the case. I am a consciousness in a male body. Is my consciousness supposed to be gendered in some way? Under what criteria if not the biological? Against arbitrary cultural norms and roles? That doesn't seem like a useful classification. Perhaps I don't 'get it' because I lack any particular gender dysphoria (or apparently any inherent secondary attachment to my biological gender either).

 

[Chelsea O'shea]

trans-gender female,one of many.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

Since ''male'' is not an option, i vote ''other''
I am rather feminine in many aspects though, compared to... what little i have to observe

 

[Drake the Dragonheart]

I was also told I'm "not a real girl" because I wax instead of shaving. Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but there you go.

Umm...

Seriously?

I mean, that'd be like someone telling me I'm "not a real man" for shaving my face with disposable razors instead of the ones where you change out the blades.

Please tell me you asked the numbskull in question to explain themselves.

Wait, what? You're not using a straight razor? And you call yourself a man!

Hey wait a second, I use an electric razor. What does that mean for me?

 

[Silvanus]

Since ''male'' is not an option

The first and third options are both male.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I was also told I'm "not a real girl" because I wax instead of shaving. Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but there you go.

I envy you.

"Do you think we'll ever walk on the sun? I know it's really hot but what if they like, go in the winter when it's only like 30 degrees?"

Yahoo answers makes me weep for humanity.

I was also told I'm "not a real girl" because I wax instead of shaving. Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but there you go.

Umm...

Seriously?

I mean, that'd be like someone telling me I'm "not a real man" for shaving my face with disposable razors instead of the ones where you change out the blades.

Please tell me you asked the numbskull in question to explain themselves.

Wait, what? You're not using a straight razor? And you call yourself a man!

Hey wait a second, I use an electric razor. What does that mean for me?

You're a... fembot? I dunno man, this seems kind of silly to me.

 

[White Lightning]

I choose other, I'm a genderfluidtransdolphinbicuriousgophershemale. I feel I'm being oppressed and raped because that wasn't an option.





(It's a joke calm down)

 

[TomWiley]

Cis male here! I think. Not entirely sure what CIS means.

Sorta related:

With the risk of being insensitive, why do people feel that there must be a psychological definition of gender?
Don't get me wrong. I understand that some people are not comfortable with their assigned sex, or that hermaphrodite individuals might feel uncomfortable having to define themselves as either sex, but that doesn't explain why we need emphasize gender as a psychological, like-style option rather than simply what kind of junk you have.

Suggesting that feel more comfortable identifying as gender either than your assigned sex indirectly implies that a gender is more than just a physical aspect - but a life-style, a personality, a fixed archetype that you must belong to or conform to. But isn't that also exactly the kind of outdated, bi-gender society that the transgender movement wants to move away from?

 

[Aramis Night]

Seems a Doctor would be required to make these determinations since gender is not a choice, but a biological property tied to our bodies development. Those of us who describe ourselves as cis-gendered seem to have accepted the findings of a medical professional in regard to our gender positions. I would hope that those that define themselves as trans have done similar homework before assigning themselves said definitions. There are many who are genuinely born with a brain that has been developed along the lines of one gender while the body developed into the other gender. I would hate to see the plight of those people marginalized by those who simply made a conscious choice to attempt to be the opposite of their biological gender out of some misguided idea that gender is a choice/social construct. The brains chemistry and structure should be the ultimate arbiters on this.

I have no issue with women who behave as men or men that behave as women. But I take issue with people co-opting the legitimate struggle of a group who are naturally at odds with their own bodies as a matter of biology on top of their dealings with a society that does little to make their positions easier.

 

[verdant monkai]

I clicked other because none of my categories are on the list.

I am perfectly willing to accept as a human being and friend, anyone who wishes to identify with whatever gender or sub gender they wish.

But as far as I am concerned there are two genders and a rare third type which is neither, meaning the individual has the option to choose or not to choose.

Male and Female and hermaphrodites (someone with malformed genitals).

In my opinion the idea of a male being trapped in a female body (or the reverse) is ridiculous, it goes against the natural order which created you as you are, and even religion where you are defying a deities will for you to be born as you are. I think the ability to accept yourself for who and what you are is far more impressive than surgery, that will cause you to become something which is neither male nor female. Unless you are already rather androgynous 99 times out of 100 the surgery will make you look like a cross dresser (in my opinion) and people will be able to spot you. I dont think being a woman in a mans body means you are a mistake. I think it means you are gay and should spend less on surgery and more time on finding a gay male to be with.

This is just my opinion and as I said, I accept it is just that! an opinion, and others may feel strongly and disagree with me. As I said the fact of who they are would not turn me against them I am willing to befriend anyone no matter what we disagree on. And if surgery will make you happy then thats whats going to happen, I am just an advocate of self acceptance.

Disclaimer I am drunk and waiting to go out for a birthday party, and am killing time on the escapist. This is my actual opinion tho.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's... completely different.

It's always completely different.

First, sexuality is independent of gender. I am first and foremost female.

Okay, that doesn't have anything to do with why you would choose a divisive label. Yes, sex and gender identity are different. So what? What has that got to do with the question at hand?

Second, people should be free to choose their own label. If someone identifies as female or male or intersex or whatever, I will respect that.

That also doesn't answer the question of why you would choose a divisive label, only that you are free to choose. Which I don't think anyone's contesting. You argued that the cis label was not productive and that it was divisive. Dividing people on sexuality works on the same level, by any apparent reasoning I can arrive at on your behalf. You've argued they're completely different, but not made a case for why or answered why you would actually choose to counterproductively and divisively label yourself. Now, is it your right? Absolutely. But that doesn't address anything of relevance here.

Unfortunately, society hasn't totally overlooked the differences between transgender and cisgender people yet.

Sure, once the prejudice has been forgotten, most likely that will happen soon after, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Should the labels go away?

It's just that, once the negative stigmas that go along with being trans are gone, I see no harm in the label and some degree of benefit. Just like sexuality. Just because nobody uses the word "gay" as a slur anymore doesn't mean it won't have a certain usefulness. For one thing, it's a lot easier to find a partner of the right sexuality if you label that sexuality. Similarly, transfolk would be able to receive better and more accurate care.

 

[DarkRawen]

Refuse to answer the poll. My apologies if that makes it inappropriate for me to comment (I generally categorize gender as 'personal information' and I'm not big on putting personal info on surveys on the internet when I can avoid it). Side question though:

Any thoughts as to why the trans community is overwhelmingly (at least as far as public image is concerned) trans female as opposed to trans male? The standard story suggests that 'female' is a very problematic identity and is in the subordinate position to the 'male' identity. Rationally, it would seem to follow that people would want to be recognized as a member of the dominant identity, but that doesn't seem to be how it works out in practice. (Jerry Seinfeld voice) What's the deal with that?

Hm, I have thought about that before. I can easily enough say that I don't identify as male because it's the "dominant identity", I just do. It gives me no benefit to identify as male, all it does is complicate a whole lot of things that I don't really care about, but really, I'm not one for letting gender be the main point of my identity.

However, I would think that part of it is that it's "easier" to be a trans man without actually saying you are one or even admitting that to yourself. I went for almost 19 years never even considering it, because I could dress, act and identify as a male without anything hindering it. I can wear a suit if I want to, I can refuse to wear makeup if I feel like it, and most media still have the male character for someone to identify with. Basically, it's easier to be the tomboy without anyone questioning it than it is to be a feminine man.

Now, this is just me thinking out loud, of course. There might be some biological reason for why there's such a difference, or some other sociological or psychological aspect of it. However, if a trans man wants to act like a man without letting anyone know, it's often easier -though I can't pass for a guy at all- or at least less looked down upon.

Also, I think part of the reason is that it might be a bit more difficult to figure out. You usually don't ask yourself why you want to go without makeup or have short hair and a shirt, after all, you're likelier to question why you feel like wearing a skirt or makeup.

 

[Something Amyss]

But as far as I am concerned there are two genders and a rare third type which is neither, meaning the individual has the option to choose or not to choose.

And as far as some are concerned, the Earth is flat. You can have your own definitions, but they're meaningless.

In my opinion the idea of a male being trapped in a female body (or the reverse) is ridiculous, it goes against the natural order which created you as you are, and even religion where you are defying a deities will for you to be born as you are.

It's unnatural because of supernatural claims. That makes no sense. Do you feel the same way about gays?

Unless you are already rather androgynous 99 times out of 100 the surgery will make you look like a cross dresser (in my opinion) and people will be able to spot you.

Yeah, that doesn't bear out in reality any more than the flat Earth. To borrow a line from Trans America: "We walk among you."

 

[verdant monkai]

But as far as I am concerned there are two genders and a rare third type which is neither, meaning the individual has the option to choose or not to choose.

And as far as some are concerned, the Earth is flat. You can have your own definitions, but they're meaningless.

In my opinion the idea of a male being trapped in a female body (or the reverse) is ridiculous, it goes against the natural order which created you as you are, and even religion where you are defying a deities will for you to be born as you are.

It's unnatural because of supernatural claims. That makes no sense. Do you feel the same way about gays?

Unless you are already rather androgynous 99 times out of 100 the surgery will make you look like a cross dresser (in my opinion) and people will be able to spot you.

Yeah, that doesn't bear out in reality any more than the flat Earth. To borrow a line from Trans America: "We walk among you."

I'm just getting started Zach just you wait. Are we friends yet? can I add you??

 

[Something Amyss]

Refuse to answer the poll. My apologies if that makes it inappropriate for me to comment (I generally categorize gender as 'personal information' and I'm not big on putting personal info on surveys on the internet when I can avoid it). Side question though:

Any thoughts as to why the trans community is overwhelmingly (at least as far as public image is concerned) trans female as opposed to trans male? The standard story suggests that 'female' is a very problematic identity and is in the subordinate position to the 'male' identity. Rationally, it would seem to follow that people would want to be recognized as a member of the dominant identity, but that doesn't seem to be how it works out in practice. (Jerry Seinfeld voice) What's the deal with that?

It's biologically easier to make a transwoman than a transman.

There's also the issue that people don't choose what to identify as. Even if we accept the premise that male privilege is specifically desirable, We'[re talking about some fairly significant changes to go through.

However, I would think that part of it is that it's "easier" to be a trans man without actually saying you are one or even admitting that to yourself. I went for almost 19 years never even considering it, because I could dress, act and identify as a male without anything hindering it. I can wear a suit if I want to, I can refuse to wear makeup if I feel like it, and most media still have the male character for someone to identify with. Basically, it's easier to be the tomboy without anyone questioning it than it is to be a feminine man.

There is also that.

 

[Something Amyss]

^This bloke, seriously I am not even bothered.

Not a bloke, but if you can't answer, why respond?

 

[Jark212]

I had to Google what cis meant but i guess that's what I am...

Man these new terms are confusing...