Poll: Has TF2 Gone To Far?
- Thread starter Tomo Stryker
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Yes, but i'm inclined to be a little more tolerable of Valve's stupid moves. It's called "Valve Time" for a reason, and i have a feeling we'll have a viable alternative energy system before we have a Team Fortress 3. When Valve does release, the time spent on the project normally shows. It's excusable.
...to an extent. I know Team Fortress 2 was meant to combine grotesque violence and cheap humor, but the balance is off with some of the add-ons.
...to an extent. I know Team Fortress 2 was meant to combine grotesque violence and cheap humor, but the balance is off with some of the add-ons.
It was like that for a lot of people--if it wasn't, The Demopan woldn't be a meme. I was rightly miffed by it at first, but I grew to like it; it's rare to see an FPS with such an emphasis on customization, even if said customization is silly and sometimes stupid-looking.Tomo Stryker said:
And, as an aside, what class do you play?
Eh, I had some minor Nerd rage at the new update, but I'm kinda used to it at this stage. I actually like the mannconomy one for the most part too, even though a lot of the weapons were crap.
But yeah, all this promo tie in stuff is kinda bad, and nearly all new weapons since have been unnessecary and clutter up the game more than they need to.
In all honestly, the game would be perfect with about half (or less) the weapons they have now. The only addition that unquestionably adds to gameplay, or doesn't change it, are maps.
Maps are all I want now, I don't really have faith in valve to release well thought out balanced weapons anymore.
But yeah, all this promo tie in stuff is kinda bad, and nearly all new weapons since have been unnessecary and clutter up the game more than they need to.
In all honestly, the game would be perfect with about half (or less) the weapons they have now. The only addition that unquestionably adds to gameplay, or doesn't change it, are maps.
Maps are all I want now, I don't really have faith in valve to release well thought out balanced weapons anymore.
Kinda split on this, on the one hand I find the new items and weapons do keep me coming back to the game from time to time. On the other hand as more and more weapon varieties come into play I feel it does skew the balance a bit for me. I'd prefered it more when there where just a few choices for each class which required you to think clever in order to be effective, but was also easy to get your hand round it all when your just starting out.
Mostly the lighter classes like Sniper, Spy, Scout or Engineer. But my personal favorite is Spy. Mostly because its a lone ranger class that acts by himself throughout the round.HT_Black said:
What is up with the sheer amount of people who seem to think you "pay to win," or as TvTropes puts it, "Bribing Your Way To Victory"? I could understand if this was an RPG and they were offering more powerful items that could only be bought, but this is ridiculous.
Every single FREE, mind you, update has given either completely cosmetic items (hats, medals, whatever) or alternate weapons. What I don't understand is why people seem to think these alternate weapons are somehow "better." They're side-grades, not upgrades. Everything is playtested and balanced, and anything too over- or underpowered is tweaked fairly quickly in updates. The more important thing to remember is that 98% of the time someone is complaining about a weapon being overpowered, it's simply because they don't know how to counter it.
Yeah, I thought the direct hit was horribly unbalanced, and then I learned to dodge. I thought the backburner was like putting on God Mode (to be fair, when they put it out it gave you +50 hp and did insane damage), but then I learned to face people when I run away. I used to think the spy's new knife Your Eternal Reward was way too difficult to even spot, then I tried playing as it, and it's extremely tricky to use properly.
Point is, all these new items change up the game. Instead of falling into the same tired strategies of memorization and repetition, where the best players are those who've played the exact same thing more times than anyone else; instead you get all kinds of new things forcing you to shake things up, to stay on your toes. How is this a bad thing? I honestly think I'd have stopped playing a long time ago if it weren't for the constantly changing experience. I've been playing since the day it came out, more than 3 years ago, and they keep giving me reasons to stay.
Oh, and the thing about the items is, no one is forcing you to buy them. The crates are annoying, yeah, but after 3 years of Valve giving us free updates almost religiously, I have absolutely no problem supporting them. Plus, the community item- and map-makers get paid for their work. Again, how is this a bad thing? Also, if you're bothered by people disregarding the actual game to spam trade requests in chat, I'd suggest finding a different server. Try some of the major communities, they don't put up with that kind of shenanigans, and chances are the people you play with will be of a much better disposition than random pubbers.
Excuse the giant rant, I just really like this game and the communities around it, and I think it's kinda sad to see people turned off by something this minor.
Every single FREE, mind you, update has given either completely cosmetic items (hats, medals, whatever) or alternate weapons. What I don't understand is why people seem to think these alternate weapons are somehow "better." They're side-grades, not upgrades. Everything is playtested and balanced, and anything too over- or underpowered is tweaked fairly quickly in updates. The more important thing to remember is that 98% of the time someone is complaining about a weapon being overpowered, it's simply because they don't know how to counter it.
Yeah, I thought the direct hit was horribly unbalanced, and then I learned to dodge. I thought the backburner was like putting on God Mode (to be fair, when they put it out it gave you +50 hp and did insane damage), but then I learned to face people when I run away. I used to think the spy's new knife Your Eternal Reward was way too difficult to even spot, then I tried playing as it, and it's extremely tricky to use properly.
Point is, all these new items change up the game. Instead of falling into the same tired strategies of memorization and repetition, where the best players are those who've played the exact same thing more times than anyone else; instead you get all kinds of new things forcing you to shake things up, to stay on your toes. How is this a bad thing? I honestly think I'd have stopped playing a long time ago if it weren't for the constantly changing experience. I've been playing since the day it came out, more than 3 years ago, and they keep giving me reasons to stay.
Oh, and the thing about the items is, no one is forcing you to buy them. The crates are annoying, yeah, but after 3 years of Valve giving us free updates almost religiously, I have absolutely no problem supporting them. Plus, the community item- and map-makers get paid for their work. Again, how is this a bad thing? Also, if you're bothered by people disregarding the actual game to spam trade requests in chat, I'd suggest finding a different server. Try some of the major communities, they don't put up with that kind of shenanigans, and chances are the people you play with will be of a much better disposition than random pubbers.
Excuse the giant rant, I just really like this game and the communities around it, and I think it's kinda sad to see people turned off by something this minor.
Who cares. It's yet another thing PC has over consoles. Dedicated player run servers. Many of which can be modded to completely remove any of those unlockables.
http://www.trickingq3.com/tf2/vanilla.html
There's a nice list of vanilla servers. And that's not even close to all of them.
http://www.trickingq3.com/tf2/vanilla.html
There's a nice list of vanilla servers. And that's not even close to all of them.
I absolutely adore how Valve keeps updating TF2 but it hasn't been decent since the Polycount update.
1. Stop giving us fucking useless weapons. Weapons that change your whole style of gameplay (huntsman, gunslinger, charg'n targe) are all very fun. While not many of them are practical, they're still great. But making weapons that slightly change specs like the Black Box are absolutely pathetic. The reason for this is that they unbalance the game in unexpected ways. A good player will anticipate how an enemy's class is played, but with useless updates, it often makes it a game of rock/paper/scissors. A solider with an RL will do well against a pyro but poorly against another soldier, for example.
2. BALANCE! Team Fortress 2 Beta is a cute concept but you have to give yourself time to balance. Not make another God damn update first.
3. You should not need to pay for a benefit. While I originally thought the store was pretty harmless, the shogun update absolutely pissed me off. Giving people a clear advantage for paying is ridiculous, and it takes some solid time to get all the weapons.
4. Probability of getting weapons. Newbies having the same chance of getting an equaliser or ubersaw (two near-essential weapons) as the holy mackerel or the L'etranger is ridiculously pathetic.
5. Take off the set benefits. I don't want to give up my weapons so I can give my scout 25% more health. It just makes a larger difference between new players and veterans. The updates are simply side grades, but some of the sets are straight up boosts without side effects.
6. Release updates more slowly. I remember getting really excited for certain updates, but giving them so often is ridiculous!
1. Stop giving us fucking useless weapons. Weapons that change your whole style of gameplay (huntsman, gunslinger, charg'n targe) are all very fun. While not many of them are practical, they're still great. But making weapons that slightly change specs like the Black Box are absolutely pathetic. The reason for this is that they unbalance the game in unexpected ways. A good player will anticipate how an enemy's class is played, but with useless updates, it often makes it a game of rock/paper/scissors. A solider with an RL will do well against a pyro but poorly against another soldier, for example.
2. BALANCE! Team Fortress 2 Beta is a cute concept but you have to give yourself time to balance. Not make another God damn update first.
3. You should not need to pay for a benefit. While I originally thought the store was pretty harmless, the shogun update absolutely pissed me off. Giving people a clear advantage for paying is ridiculous, and it takes some solid time to get all the weapons.
4. Probability of getting weapons. Newbies having the same chance of getting an equaliser or ubersaw (two near-essential weapons) as the holy mackerel or the L'etranger is ridiculously pathetic.
5. Take off the set benefits. I don't want to give up my weapons so I can give my scout 25% more health. It just makes a larger difference between new players and veterans. The updates are simply side grades, but some of the sets are straight up boosts without side effects.
6. Release updates more slowly. I remember getting really excited for certain updates, but giving them so often is ridiculous!
This is the problem I have with TF2.
Just the other day I saw someone wearing a bright pink Flipped Trilby. It looked absurd. Valve are slowly butchering the art style of TF2. They should go and read the guide on their own Contribute page. Especially the bit that says "maintain team colors, if not - neutral colors (see color swatch [http://www.teamfortress.com/contribute/images/tips_palette.gif].)"
Just the other day I saw someone wearing a bright pink Flipped Trilby. It looked absurd. Valve are slowly butchering the art style of TF2. They should go and read the guide on their own Contribute page. Especially the bit that says "maintain team colors, if not - neutral colors (see color swatch [http://www.teamfortress.com/contribute/images/tips_palette.gif].)"
I'm not complaining that the items are overpowered, I'm complaining that all the new weapons make the game more and more complicated and alienates everyone who doesn't play all the time.Deskimus Prime said:
Wasn't the whole point of Team Fortress 2 to make a game that was accessible and easy to understand for everyone, regardless of skill or experience? That's why they removed the grenades and changed the art style, right? So that new players could jump right in and quickly understand the basics.
But if a newcomer jumps in to a Team Fortress 2 match now, he will be totally lost. I tried to get my friend into it and the first thing that happened was that he got headshot by a Huntsman-Sniper.
There was no way for him to figure out how to counter a Huntsman since he hadn't acquired one yet and the only way to acquire one is to play and hope for a random drop.
The unlock weapons are a good idea and they keep the game fresh for the veterans. But they make the game more complicated for newcomers and without newcomers, the game is going to die sooner or later.
Also, just because the updates are free doesn't make them good. I'd rather pay for a good game than have my favorite game ruined for free.
Although valve have done a good job constantly updating the gme for free until recently (even then, a valid move as they hopefully move on to more projects) it's the other games and the art style that bugs me. Someone has already shown the demoman comparrison, and I'm sure the colour issue has been brought up. I loved the plain easy to reconise style, but now it's just daft. That, and nearly every game released on steam has to have a TF2 item now. I think it got cringeworthy when killing floor joined in. Now even rift, a game which has little to do with Steam (Steam being a link to the webpage to install the game) has to join in.
So whilst it's good the constant updates, it's killed the original style the game was going for in my opinion.
So whilst it's good the constant updates, it's killed the original style the game was going for in my opinion.
And people who don't or can't craft hats don't get this option. And considering that the standard for new weapons is that they're a side-grade that work well in their sets, there's no downside.bahumat42 said:
Seriously? You think a frying pan and a pirate hat with a treasure chest on are suitable items for a black Scottish demolitions expert? I cannot make any kind of connection between the character and the items (which is the second piece of advice Valve themselves give on making items). As for the paint, it's not okay. This game is supposed to have a unique and consistent art direction. Having it look like a rainbow threw up on it just makes it stupid.bahumat42 said:actually their still ok item wise (ok those glasses are dumb). The bright coloured stuff comes from idiots wanting to paint their gear. If somebody wants to waste money to look terrible who cares.Redingold said:This is the problem I have with TF2.
Just the other day I saw someone wearing a bright pink Flipped Trilby. It looked absurd. Valve are slowly butchering the art style of TF2. They should go and read the guide on their own Contribute page. Especially the bit that says "maintain team colors, if not - neutral colors (see color swatch [http://www.teamfortress.com/contribute/images/tips_palette.gif].)"
I don't mind most of the weapons (though I'd prefer if they'd stop adding new ones and focus on fixing bugs and glitches) but the promotional items and stupid painted hats must be stopped.
I think the constant updates are great. As I feel is the case with many other players, my TF2 activity rapidly spikes after an update is released in attempt to acquire all the new content, allowing me to come back to this game more often than any other.
Of course, as one of those people that owns a copy of basically every single weapon, this opinion might be a bit biased.
Of course, as one of those people that owns a copy of basically every single weapon, this opinion might be a bit biased.
Sorry about bringing this up, and it's VERY late answer, but you were right, got the wrong information, "genuine" is just a new vintage, like you said. Sorry about my pointless accusation.