Poll: Hitman Absolution hates women

[Erttheking]

Bottom point I'm trying to make is that you can be dark without being sleazy. Kill a woman. Fine. Kill a defenseless woman. Still fine. Kill a sexualized defenseless woman. You just made things creepy and weird.

Where in Hitman Absolution are you forced to kill a sexualized defenseless woman? (Nevermind Anita Sarkeesian deliberately doing it, to falsify 'typical' gameplay footage in order to prove a point.)

Haven't played the game, but according to Zhukov, who has, you are required to kill a woman who strips in an attempt to convince you otherwise. 47, being 47, isn't persuaded. She's married to some dude called Dexter.

The scene in question:


Woman? Yes.
Sexualized? Yes.
Defenseless? No, she pulls a gun on you.

Allow me to correct myself. You kill a sexualized woman who can defend herself. Doesn't make me feel any more comfortable though.

 

[IceForce]

If you can give me a more honest reason for why women would go into battle dressed as dominatrix stripper nuns, I'd love to hear it. I can't for the life of me figure out what tactical advantage it offers.

Why does 47 always wear a suit and tie? What "tactical advantage" does that offer?

It offers the tactical advantage of making him seem like an average person as he walks about in public spaces. 47's an assassin, he's supposed to be sneaky and subtle. He doesn't go into missions looking for or preparing for a firefight, he goes into missions expecting to sneak around, causing as little collateral damage and avoiding as much attention as possible.

The stripper nuns were not trying to be silent or subtle, because their opening attack was blowing up a building and their follow up was assault rifles. They were equipped for an outright assault weapon-wise, but decided that dressing like strippers was the way to go just because.

But, given the places 47 often goes, being all dolled up in a suit often makes him stand out MORE.

My point was, whatever you think of the nun assassin outfits, it's important to remember that the Hitman series has always had a thing for quirky and over the top outfit designs, and features characters wearing outfits that make little or no sense.

 

[Erttheking]

Why were the English Kind of the bad guys in AC 3 ? Because the French hate the English and know the US does too ?

...Or that's just what happens when you play as someone who sides with the Americans in the War for Independence?

Haven't played the game, but according to Zhukov, who has, you are required to kill a woman who strips in an attempt to convince you otherwise. 47, being 47, isn't persuaded. She's married to some dude called Dexter.

While I agree that that does indeed have some connotations in regards to the whole "Hitman Hates Women" bit, I do feel inclined to point out that that's only one of several ways you can actually take her out, and it's getting rather annoying that people keep trotting this out as if it's a required and unavoidable step in the game's plot to have her strip for you.

For example, I put a bullet in her face from 50 paces, as I did with everyone else in the game, because I enjoy playing Hitman wrong.

Doesn't matter if it's not the only option, it's still a valid option as designed by the programers. You yourself just said there that your way of doing it was the wrong way, so it sounds more like this way is considered the "Right" way.

 

[jurnag12]

Why were the English Kind of the bad guys in AC 3 ? Because the French hate the English and know the US does too ?

...Or that's just what happens when you play as someone who sides with the Americans in the War for Independence?

Haven't played the game, but according to Zhukov, who has, you are required to kill a woman who strips in an attempt to convince you otherwise. 47, being 47, isn't persuaded. She's married to some dude called Dexter.

While I agree that that does indeed have some connotations in regards to the whole "Hitman Hates Women" bit, I do feel inclined to point out that that's only one of several ways you can actually take her out, and it's getting rather annoying that people keep trotting this out as if it's a required and unavoidable step in the game's plot to have her strip for you.

For example, I put a bullet in her face from 50 paces, as I did with everyone else in the game, because I enjoy playing Hitman wrong.

Doesn't matter if it's not the only option, it's still a valid option as designed by the programmers. You yourself just said there that your way of doing it was the wrong way.

I was using the word 'wrong' more in a humorous way than actually labeling the route as wrong. If the game allows you to complete an objective that way, then by definition the method used is not the wrong way to go about it.

Then again, I'm not actually defending the game, just noting that generally when this scene comes up, it's explained as if watching Layla strip is the only way to go about it, which is pretty much wrong. I'm not denying the existence of the scene, only the absence of alternatives, which I feel is commonly suggested.

 

[Erttheking]

Why were the English Kind of the bad guys in AC 3 ? Because the French hate the English and know the US does too ?

...Or that's just what happens when you play as someone who sides with the Americans in the War for Independence?

Haven't played the game, but according to Zhukov, who has, you are required to kill a woman who strips in an attempt to convince you otherwise. 47, being 47, isn't persuaded. She's married to some dude called Dexter.

While I agree that that does indeed have some connotations in regards to the whole "Hitman Hates Women" bit, I do feel inclined to point out that that's only one of several ways you can actually take her out, and it's getting rather annoying that people keep trotting this out as if it's a required and unavoidable step in the game's plot to have her strip for you.

For example, I put a bullet in her face from 50 paces, as I did with everyone else in the game, because I enjoy playing Hitman wrong.

Doesn't matter if it's not the only option, it's still a valid option as designed by the programmers. You yourself just said there that your way of doing it was the wrong way.

I was using the word 'wrong' more in a humorous way than actually labeling the route as wrong. If the game allows you to complete an objective that way, then by definition the method used is not the wrong way to go about it.

Then again, I'm not actually defending the game, just noting that generally when this scene comes up, it's explained as if watching Layla strip is the only way to go about it, which is pretty much wrong. I'm not denying the existence of the scene, only the absence of alternatives, which I feel is commonly suggested.

Fair enough. I just assumed that by "Wrong" you meant "I got the least amount of points" I only played the first few missions of this game, but from what I recall it tends to frown upon you using your guns.

 

[jurnag12]

Why were the English Kind of the bad guys in AC 3 ? Because the French hate the English and know the US does too ?

...Or that's just what happens when you play as someone who sides with the Americans in the War for Independence?

Haven't played the game, but according to Zhukov, who has, you are required to kill a woman who strips in an attempt to convince you otherwise. 47, being 47, isn't persuaded. She's married to some dude called Dexter.

While I agree that that does indeed have some connotations in regards to the whole "Hitman Hates Women" bit, I do feel inclined to point out that that's only one of several ways you can actually take her out, and it's getting rather annoying that people keep trotting this out as if it's a required and unavoidable step in the game's plot to have her strip for you.

For example, I put a bullet in her face from 50 paces, as I did with everyone else in the game, because I enjoy playing Hitman wrong.

Doesn't matter if it's not the only option, it's still a valid option as designed by the programmers. You yourself just said there that your way of doing it was the wrong way.

I was using the word 'wrong' more in a humorous way than actually labeling the route as wrong. If the game allows you to complete an objective that way, then by definition the method used is not the wrong way to go about it.

Then again, I'm not actually defending the game, just noting that generally when this scene comes up, it's explained as if watching Layla strip is the only way to go about it, which is pretty much wrong. I'm not denying the existence of the scene, only the absence of alternatives, which I feel is commonly suggested.

Fair enough. I just assumed that by "Wrong" you meant "I got the least amount of points" I only played the first few missions of this game, but from what I recall it tends to frown upon you using your guns.

Going in guns blazing does generally result in less points than if you used stealthy ways (Although I generally go for the silenced silverballers when I mean guns blazing, so not that big a point reduction), but missions are still perfectly doable that way.

Actually, come to think of it, getting the strip bit isn't even the optimal way to do that mission. You have to trigger alarms and get her to retreat to a panic room to have it play out like that. The perfect/'make it look like an accident' way is to poison her food with hallucinogenics so she jumps off a balcony.

 

[IceForce]

The scene in question:


Woman? Yes.
Sexualized? Yes.
Defenseless? No, she pulls a gun on you.

You see what the first thing this player does after shooting her dead? He/she drags her scantly-clad dead body around.
... Which is exactly the thing that Anita got criticized for showing.

Just an interesting observation.

You can also undress male characters and drag them around in their underwear, what's your point?

 

[runic knight]

Bottom point I'm trying to make is that you can be dark without being sleazy. Kill a woman. Fine. Kill a defenseless woman. Still fine. Kill a sexualized defenseless woman. You just made things creepy and weird.

Where in Hitman Absolution are you forced to kill a sexualized defenseless woman? (Nevermind Anita Sarkeesian deliberately doing it, to falsify 'typical' gameplay footage in order to prove a point.)

Haven't played the game, but according to Zhukov, who has, you are required to kill a woman who strips in an attempt to convince you otherwise. 47, being 47, isn't persuaded. She's married to some dude called Dexter.

The scene in question:


Woman? Yes.
Sexualized? Yes.
Defenseless? No, she pulls a gun on you.

Wait, wasn't the whole point of the sexualization there an attempt to distract the player before she finished them off?

Hell, it takes on a sort of meta quality when you think how the creators might have thought their target audience would react to a suddenly stripping sexual character being given control mere moment before the character turns around and wastes you.
Not sure if it was just really going for the femme fatale trope there or if it was an intentional trolling for a cheap kill against what they were betting were distracted horny teenagers.

 

[runic knight]

The scene in question:


Woman? Yes.
Sexualized? Yes.
Defenseless? No, she pulls a gun on you.

You see what the first thing this player does after shooting her dead? He/she drags her scantly-clad dead body around.
... Which is exactly the thing that Anita got criticized for showing.

Just an interesting observation.

I thought she got criticized for misrepresenting the game's objective and context and outright lying through her teeth about the game promoting the sort of behavior such as killing strippers in the club when in reality the game actually penalized players for doing so.

Dragging a body to hide it (in this case, under the bed) doesn't seem like it was ever a great concern next to the massive glaring dishonesty of the rest of her argument.

 

[josemlopes]

"I felt so bad about killing her I quit the game and I haven?t gone back to it. It?s not worth it"

I guess she dont feel bad for killing men?

Miss the paragraph about her being a domestic abuse victim?

Pardon me, but let me just appreciate the irony that people always hate Anita for taking scenes of violence out of context, and now the person you quoted is doing the same thing.

The first guy that you are forced to kill in the game is talking on the phone with his doctor about the results of his medical tests that show that he doesnt have prostate cancer, the guy is all happy and shit that he gets another chance in life and all you can do is throw him out the window to his death.

Like it was already said, in this game everything is shit and basicly only the girl is worth saving from that world itself. Thats the point of the game and the big context around it.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I'm baffled so much is being made of a game where the main character in the first game shows directly that he isn't interested in sex. It's probably the main reason why everyone in absolution is a sexually depraved psychopath...to highlight that 47 is an assassin who murders people for cash but isn't really a bad guy.

The strip club manager that you execute for birdy who sets up his 'ladies' with wade the lady killer...he earns his assassination for being a **** and people moan because there are some strippers in a strip club...almost like fiction matching reality. Sad thing is nobody mentions that in some strip clubs in real life the women are victims of trafficking or forced to work for drug habits formed through association with the owner. Change the fiction! Change the fiction! Too sexist!

The saints who are basically abused women who have been conditioned to be like 47. They seem to be there to highlight yet again how 47 is exceptional. He is a super assassin but isn't emotional, he isn't a psychopath...he's superman. He isn't distracted by sexy women and he lives where others die because of it. Their clothing is pure fetish to match their damaged psychology, broken by the main bastard bad guy. They show just how bad Travis is, setting the stage for his final moment and how he 'earned' it.

Layla, the tough assistant who tries to take on 47 where her powerful boss cowardly runs away and leaves her. She is a strong character that has put up with tons of shit from Dexter and still ends up out-manning him in the end. But in 1 of the 9-12 different assassination options she tries to use her feminine charms on 47 and suddenly she becomes a weak female? Bollocks, she is probably the strongest character in the game. She shows emotion at the pointless killings, puts up some minor defence against the endless crazy antics that every other character in the game gets upto. She doesn't show any depravity other than a desire for cash and loyalty to her shitty boss.

It's annoying how 1 person writes some shit about a game and suddenly people start parroting what she says without thinking about it. Women in absolution are shown to be just as insane as the men, just as ruthless and capable of dodgy tactics yet the only people alive at the end are 47, the girl and dianne. Hell, Dianne fakes her own death, rescues an innocent girl from being used like 47 was and then sets up Travis to fuck himself with a ruthless assassination agency. The poll was 'does hitman absolution hate women?'...i'd say it's quite the opposite. 2 VERY strong female characters and the only strong male character is a guy who isn't interested in sex at all (barely male). All the other males are self-centered twats, psychopaths or just there to get slaughtered/be avoided on the way to the next section.

 

[MetalDooley]

Can I just remind everybody that the game felt the need to heavily sexualize a 14-year old girl?! That on its own is pretty damn fucked up.

Can I just ask where this heavily sexualised 14 year old is?Because all I can remember is a girl wearing a pretty generic school uniform similar to what I can see hundreds of girls wearing if I walk around my town.I mean she's not wearing skin tight clothes,she's not wearing a low cut top and flashing cleavage constantly,she's not constantly making suggestive poses or stripping.In fact the game never shows her nude or even in underwear or a bikini or in any kind of compromising position that I can remember.So basically you're saying she's "heavily sexualised" because she's wearing a skirt,a skirt that isn't even that short compared to what you can see women wearing any day of the week

 

[Fox12]

If you can give me a more honest reason for why women would go into battle dressed as dominatrix stripper nuns, I'd love to hear it. I can't for the life of me figure out what tactical advantage it offers.

Why does 47 always wear a suit and tie? What "tactical advantage" does that offer?

First of all, a suit and tie doesn't stand out, certainly not like a stripper nun outfit. He is an assassin, correct? I assume the reason he isn't walking around in battle gear is because the idea is that he's supposed to avoid heavy combat in the first place. But that's ignoring much more important issue.

Lets look at what these outfits say. A suit and tie exudes professionalism and self confidence. It represents success. It's a symbol unto itself, creating a certain mental image in your head about the character. They could have given him more tactical gear, but they chose a suit and tie because it embodied personality traits that they wanted the audience to connect to his character. But what does the stripper nun outfit convey? Eroticism and sexuality, but also a degree of subservience. The outfit was specifically created to act as fetish gear for other people. Whereas the suit and tie builds up agent 47, the stripper nun outfit tears down the female assasins. Their respective outfits are status symbols in our society, but where a suit represents success, wealth, and confidence, a stripper outfit represents subservience, exploitation, and sometimes poverty.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Allow me to correct myself. You kill a sexualized woman who can defend herself. Doesn't make me feel any more comfortable though.

What makes you feel uncomfortable has nothing to do with the quality of the game. If that was the case horror games would all be terrible and a reviewer could score down a game if it involved spiders and they were arachnophobic.

 

[SillySam]

The first guy that you are forced to kill in the game is talking on the phone with his doctor about the results of his medical tests that show that he doesnt have prostate cancer, the guy is all happy and shit that he gets another chance in life and all you can do is throw him out the window to his death.

If I recall correctly, you can wait for the guard to move away.
I did chuckle at the irony when he said 'no one can piss on this day', maybe I'm just a horrible person

 

[Username Redacted]

Can I just remind everybody that the game felt the need to heavily sexualize a 14-year old girl?! That on its own is pretty damn fucked up.

Can I just ask where this heavily sexualised 14 year old is?Because all I can remember is a girl wearing a pretty generic school uniform similar to what I can see hundreds of girls wearing if I walk around my town.I mean she's not wearing skin tight clothes,she's not wearing a low cut top and flashing cleavage constantly,she's not constantly making suggestive poses or stripping.In fact the game never shows her nude or even in underwear or a bikini or in any kind of compromising position that I can remember.So basically you're saying she's "heavily sexualised" because she's wearing a skirt,a skirt that isn't even that short compared to what you can see women wearing any day of the week

Yeah, not really seeing that one either. In general I'm getting the impression that a lot of the people who're criticizing this game haven't actually played it or even watched a 'Let's Play' of it.

 

[zumbledum]

I came across this blog post by Elizabeth Edwards (Creative Assembly artist) linked at Rock Paper Shotgun. Warning, there are spoilers.

http://lizedwardsart.tumblr.com/post/43226499697/hitman-absolution

What do you think? Is Elizabeth correct that Hitman Absolution hates women?

Really what I'm interested in here is the poll result but please leave a comment explaining your vote.

well if she cant tell the difference between Hate and puerile teen spank fantasy i think shes best off sticking to the junior character artistry. but this is just the sort of bullshit people put on CV's. she might be just trying to hitch herself to that bandwagon and exploit being female.

 

[Verlander]

More of a case that Hitman doesn't consider them at all.

 

[Fox12]

Lets look at what these outfits say. A suit and tie exudes professionalism and self confidence. It represents success. It's a symbol unto itself, creating a certain mental image in your head about the character. They could have given him more tactical gear, but they chose a suit and tie because it embodied personality traits that they wanted the audience to connect to his character.

No I disagree.
To me Agent 47 was given the suit and tie to spotlight how he is essentially a tool, a weapon to be used. He is given the generic business suit to highlight his lack of personality or will. It's generic, it has no defining features, it makes him look like a standard businessman who is nothing but a cog for the business he works for (an accurate description of Agent 47).
The barcode on the back of his head is the only identifying feature he has but even that serves to show him as a replaceable tool.

But what does the stripper nun outfit convey? Eroticism and sexuality, but also a degree of subservience.

Eroticism and sexuality maybe but certainly not subservience. You literally couldn't be further from the truth.
Search "Dominatrix" on google and you'll see that it is they who the Saints resemble, not the subs (submissives).

You misunderstand me. Not subservience to agent 47, or necessarily even to their leader/boss, though I think there's an argument to be made there. Rather, subservience to the designers or players. They are put into the game to appeal to fetishes of male gamers, putting them in less than a dominant position, regardless of whether or no their a dominatrix or not. You're essentially arguing that their outfit is empowering, an argument that holds no weight. They are dressed that way because the developers felt that MALE gamers would enjoy it, and it was made from a male mentality. They appear in one level, hold no real plot relevance, and have no real personality to speak of. What purpose, then, do they serve other than fanservice? Also, this idea that my opinion is based on prudishness is frankly ridiculous. Sexuality in gaming is fine. Female sexuality in gaming is fine. You assume my problem is with the sexuality, and not with the fact that women are being degraded. It is actually possible to explore female sexuality without degrading them.

Also: http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311

 

[peruvianskys]

You misunderstand me. Not subservience to agent 47, or necessarily even to their leader/boss, though I think there's an argument to be made there. Rather, subservience to the designers or players. They are put into the game to appeal to fetishes of male gamers, putting them in less than a dominant position, regardless of whether or no their a dominatrix or not. You're essentially arguing that their outfit is empowering, an argument that holds no weight. They are dressed that way because the developers felt that MALE gamers would enjoy it, and it was made from a male mentality. They appear in one level, hold no real plot relevance, and have no real personality to speak of. What purpose, then, do they serve other than fanservice? Also, this idea that my opinion is based on prudishness is frankly ridiculous. Sexuality in gaming is fine. Female sexuality in gaming is fine. You assume my problem is with the sexuality, and not with the fact that women are being degraded. It is actually possible to explore female sexuality without degrading them.

Also: http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311

When men can't imagine female sexuality without degradation and objectification, attacking that degradation and objectification sounds to them like like attacking sexuality. SMH.

I find it absolutely incredible that there are men here defending this. If you are a man and you don't care about opposing misogyny, then shame on you. And if you claim you do care and then pretend there's nothing wrong with a video game that straps its female characters into BDSM gear or stripper clothes and lets you strangle them one by one, I call bullshit. Sexualizing violence against women is absolutely unacceptable, especially considering that sexual violence by men against women is one of the most common, least addressed, and most horrible scourges in our society.