Poll: Homeopathy
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Ironically, according to homeopathy, if you get poisoned by some plant, you should drink water with the poison of said plant 'mixed in' to cure it. I say 'mixed in', because the amount is so minuscule that there's more dinosaur urine in it than poison.Korolev said:
Homeopathy is so stupid that it's beyond just retarded. It's absurd people actually believe that bullshit. In fact, anyone who believes it is an idiot, pure and simple. That's not even intended as an insult. Homeopathy is just so incredibly ludicrous that you have to be an actual idiot, objectively stupid, to believe it.
(trying not to miss-quoteNaeras said:
Granted, the difference was VERY little. Just high enough and systemic enough for not being a normal random mistake (used 5 different machines in like 20 tests).
Also the photometric effect was different (I hope you know what I mean. English in this kind of field is really not my strong point).
To your "it takes weeks..."-thingy. You're right. Anti-body is the wrong term. Like I said: (please imagine broad German accent!) I don't english!.
But the swelling is due to the poison being cleaned out by osmosis. This is more like an anaphylactic reaction. And I think the poison from the exterior might help with this (but don't ask me how).
This stuff works, in my experience, with mosquito-stings. They just aren't that itchy anymore and seem to go away faster. And this is not because of cooling, numbing or else. Well, acutally it might be numbing, there's (small amounts of) alcohol in it.
And: Here you are. An article about studies concerning homeopathy. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1475491603000067
I did not read it at full concentration since I am working on physics right now (bio-chemistry remembers me how much I loooove physics!), but I think this article might be in favor of homeopathy.
Except placebos don't actually cure anything, because they don't do anything. Can placebos be useful? Sure. Are placebos medicine? No. Is it ethical to sell placebos as though they were on equal footing with real medicine (meaning medicine that actually has an effect)? No.FEichinger said:
Homeopathic remedies are sold as something that can actually cure ailments, which is a lie. If you get better because of the placebo affect then that has nothing to do with whatever "remedy" you used, it's purely the result of your own brain's superpowers. Homeopathy is thus all either sold through deliberate fraud, or ignorance. Neither of those has any place when it comes to treating any kind of ailment.
Not properly treating any of those could potentially kill you. It's not terribly likely that they will, but there's still enough of a risk involved that your treatment decisions should be based off of the most accurate information you can get. And the only way to consider homeopathy a valid treatment option is if you lack accurate information about it (like you said, placebos don't work if you know they're placebos).
Medication does not equate to "pumping chemicals in insane quantities through your body." If it does the medication will probably kill you (and you're probably not taking the recommended dosage, since scientists spend a lot of time figuring exactly what quantities of the medicine are safe).
Or is your issue here with the idea of "chemicals" itself? Because literally everything you put into your body is made up of chemical, homeopathic remedies included.
Trying hard not to screw up the quotes this time xD
Then again, that article is almost 10 years old, and I think we both know how insanely the life science fields are advancing. It's quite possible (even probable?) that everything in that article could have been disproved by now.
I guess I should also clarify that I, as a bioscience student, actually think it would be awesome if homeopathy actually worked, because that's a lot of areas to research and a lot of completely new stuff we could learn about both life and the world. Plus, it'd mean potential for cheaper medicines and more effective treatment. However, pretty much everything points towards a great, big NO as to whether or not homeopathy works: from the lack of a theoretical mechanism, to the overall lack of evidence, and the amount of resistance homeopaths show when researchers ask to let them study the methods in a controlled environment.
Photometric effect from a compound that's been diluted 10^30 times? No offense, but that makes no sense, even if the survey was thorough.Roggen Bread said:(trying not to miss-quoteNaeras said:
Granted, the difference was VERY little. Just high enough and systemic enough for not being a normal random mistake (used 5 different machines in like 20 tests).
Also the photometric effect was different (I hope you know what I mean. English in this kind of field is really not my strong point).
I'm still fairly certain that the itching/swelling is a result of tissue damage, and to some extent ruptured mast cells/histamine, not simply the concentration of whatever chemical the insect injected when they punctured the skin(venom, anti-coagulation factors, etc). Cleaning it does help, but if osmosis has anything to do with how it works, I can't see any reasons why you shouldn't be able to achieve the same results with simple home-made salt water, as long as you get the concentration right.
Huh, interesting. Thanks for the link, this is the first time I've seen any serious article not outright condemn homeopathy. All other articles I've ever seen on the subject has concluded that, barring the obvious placebo effect, there's no observed effect from, or mechanism behind, homeopathy. The article you linked to reported research potential, though. Not much else, but still, interesting. I merely read the summary, however, as I don't want to pay for the full paper. :V
Then again, that article is almost 10 years old, and I think we both know how insanely the life science fields are advancing. It's quite possible (even probable?) that everything in that article could have been disproved by now.
I guess I should also clarify that I, as a bioscience student, actually think it would be awesome if homeopathy actually worked, because that's a lot of areas to research and a lot of completely new stuff we could learn about both life and the world. Plus, it'd mean potential for cheaper medicines and more effective treatment. However, pretty much everything points towards a great, big NO as to whether or not homeopathy works: from the lack of a theoretical mechanism, to the overall lack of evidence, and the amount of resistance homeopaths show when researchers ask to let them study the methods in a controlled environment.
No sense? Mate, in this conversation. A conversation over a kind of "medicine" that doesn't make any sense at all (and yet, in some cases, and by this point I stand, works)... well, I think you know what I am trying to say.Naeras said:Trying hard not to screw up the quotes this time xD
Photometric effect from a compound that's been diluted 10^30 times? No offense, but that makes no sense, even if the survey was thorough.Roggen Bread said:(trying not to miss-quoteNaeras said:
Granted, the difference was VERY little. Just high enough and systemic enough for not being a normal random mistake (used 5 different machines in like 20 tests).
Also the photometric effect was different (I hope you know what I mean. English in this kind of field is really not my strong point).
But however. There was a photometric effect.
To back me up: http://journals.ohiolink.edu/ejc/article.cgi?issn=00095893&issue=v67i1-2&article=157_ipdadoiahpbc
I just ignore the poison/wound/whatever discussion.
I am way out of topic and can't give a good, well informed statement. Probably you're right.
No water does not have a motherfucking memory and 200 C mean the substance you intend to take is not in your meds no matter if you eat 500000K Pills. If like cures like take a sip of water and and enjoy the ability to never drown IE breathe underwater.
I believe belief can make anything believable. Thank you!
Btw, I kind of believe in some "alternative medicine" and I actually did feel some improvement to some personal disfunctions as a child after getting some acupuncture sessions, be it placebo or not.
Btw, I kind of believe in some "alternative medicine" and I actually did feel some improvement to some personal disfunctions as a child after getting some acupuncture sessions, be it placebo or not.
That's a bit of a mixed bag you're offering here.
I personally know that natural/herbal knowledge can prevent, ease or cure many an ailment.
I've seen cats and dogs respond to homeopathic medicine, which made me shut up for good about it being all 'in the head'. You can't explain to a cancer-ridden cat that the smelly water or sugary treats will take some edge off the pain or make some of the fear go away when it's time to go.
Still, it also has to be said that there's plenty of humbug in alternative medicine. There's some chemical facts and holistic truth in some of the very basic concepts, but it comes wrapped in more BS than all the holy books, all the yellow press and all Harry Potter books rolled into one.
That's a lot of BS.
I personally know that natural/herbal knowledge can prevent, ease or cure many an ailment.
I've seen cats and dogs respond to homeopathic medicine, which made me shut up for good about it being all 'in the head'. You can't explain to a cancer-ridden cat that the smelly water or sugary treats will take some edge off the pain or make some of the fear go away when it's time to go.
Still, it also has to be said that there's plenty of humbug in alternative medicine. There's some chemical facts and holistic truth in some of the very basic concepts, but it comes wrapped in more BS than all the holy books, all the yellow press and all Harry Potter books rolled into one.
That's a lot of BS.
Question: what kind of water did you test the homeopathic solution against? Distilled? And did you (group doing the testing) get the same results with the same machine and the same solution several times?Roggen Bread said:No sense? Mate, in this conversation. A conversation over a kind of "medicine" that doesn't make any sense at all (and yet, in some cases, and by this point I stand, works)... well, I think you know what I am trying to say.Naeras said:Trying hard not to screw up the quotes this time xD
Photometric effect from a compound that's been diluted 10^30 times? No offense, but that makes no sense, even if the survey was thorough.Roggen Bread said:(trying not to miss-quoteNaeras said:
Granted, the difference was VERY little. Just high enough and systemic enough for not being a normal random mistake (used 5 different machines in like 20 tests).
Also the photometric effect was different (I hope you know what I mean. English in this kind of field is really not my strong point).
But however. There was a photometric effect.
To back me up: http://journals.ohiolink.edu/ejc/article.cgi?issn=00095893&issue=v67i1-2&article=157_ipdadoiahpbc
I just ignore the poison/wound/whatever discussion.
I am way out of topic and can't give a good, well informed statement. Probably you're right.
And what kind of water is used by homeopathy fabricants?
These factors all play an important part in the end result.
Next question: what kind of photometric effect did you register? Was it the same for every machine you used? And does it concur with the "active ingredient" of said homeopathic medicine?
And it does work in some cases, just like, say, a sugar pill, being given to people as medicine.
I still do not believe that homeopathy truly "works", simply because I have yet to find a conclusive double-blind study of adequate size and with a clearly described working randomisation process.
Actually, this could be a variaton of the "Kluger Hans" phenomenon.Headdrivehardscrew said:
You give the cat/dog something you expect to make your pet better. You communicate this via body language and probably also by telling your pet. Your pet "believes" you and responds to the medicine positively.
Please note, that this is simply an assumption on how this could work, I do not claim, that this is ZE ONLY KORREKT WAY.
Also: entertaining, if you understand german: http://www.cdkev.de/aufsaetze_vortraege/sonstiges/marburger_ek/marburger_ek.htm
Alternative medicine that works is just called medicine. That said, homeopathy is one of the worst offenders of bullshit.
If diluting the active ingredient creates a better cure, then wouldn't plain tap water (which has a minuscule concentration of just about everything) be some sort or panacea? That said, homeopathy doesn't work.
As far as other alternative medicine goes, herbs and such containing some ingredient which might cure some diseases can be useful if you don't have access to medicine of a better quality. For example, if you're lost in the woods. Other than that, I'd say it's better to go for the store-bought stuff.
As far as other alternative medicine goes, herbs and such containing some ingredient which might cure some diseases can be useful if you don't have access to medicine of a better quality. For example, if you're lost in the woods. Other than that, I'd say it's better to go for the store-bought stuff.
For people saying that Natural Medicine works, let me say that that is not Homeopathy.
Homeopathy literally is diluting portions of the substance making you sick and turning that into a medicine. Homeopathy literally means that. Homeo, as is, something that is the same or similar. So, Homeopathy literally means to dilute ailments and to feed them back to the patient.
There is plenty of science on dilution to disprove it.
Natural Medicine is a different thing entirely, though, most Naturpaths, as they call themselves, are Homeopathic practitioners that have changed professional identity in order to escape the negative connotation of "homeopath." Though, not all are.
The doctor I go to now has both his naturpathic and MD degrees, his MD being from OHSU. And he is a really good doctor who knows where to draw the line between bucking the pharmaceutical industry and prescribing drugs when people need it.
Though, last I heard there were several lawsuits out against the manufacturer of Zicam, a zinc-based "natural" cold remedy that has been know to damage the nose and cause loss of smell, so, in short, do not trust a naturpath unless they have their MD, too.
Homeopathy literally is diluting portions of the substance making you sick and turning that into a medicine. Homeopathy literally means that. Homeo, as is, something that is the same or similar. So, Homeopathy literally means to dilute ailments and to feed them back to the patient.
There is plenty of science on dilution to disprove it.
Natural Medicine is a different thing entirely, though, most Naturpaths, as they call themselves, are Homeopathic practitioners that have changed professional identity in order to escape the negative connotation of "homeopath." Though, not all are.
The doctor I go to now has both his naturpathic and MD degrees, his MD being from OHSU. And he is a really good doctor who knows where to draw the line between bucking the pharmaceutical industry and prescribing drugs when people need it.
Though, last I heard there were several lawsuits out against the manufacturer of Zicam, a zinc-based "natural" cold remedy that has been know to damage the nose and cause loss of smell, so, in short, do not trust a naturpath unless they have their MD, too.
Homeopathy works as well as a placebo. Though I do believe in natural remedies, a lot of medicines were made from plants. Of course once refined they're a lot more potent with less side effects so I'd take the manufactured ones any day, but that still doesn't mean nature doesn't work.
.FluffyWelshCake said:
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.375092-Poll-Homeopathy-Is-it-Bollocks#14551027