Poll: Hotline Miami

[SadakoMoose]

Who else here has seen Hotline Miami? I just picked up a VHS copy at a thrift store the other day, and I gotta be honest; it's not bad. I know the movie has a bit of a reputation because of what the lead actor did, but it's not a bad slasher movie at all, especially given where Slasher movies were in the early 90's. The choreography, if you can get over the film's history, is pretty brutal and effective. It's no wonder Tsui Hark talks it up so much.

To tell the truth, I've never really cared for True Crime stories. It's what kept me away from all that Zodiac stuff, and to an extent the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I know that the whole Leatherface thing is a work of pure fiction, but the way the film does things makes me feel dirty just watching. That's a common opinion about the Hooper classic, and also this hidden gem.
Given the stuff that they fictionalize about the Hotline murders, it's actually really similar to TCM in that way.

Like, for example, some reports of the attacks say that he was wearing a chicken mask or even a wolf mask, but in the movie he's "The Pig butcher". Also, the only security cam footage we have of the suspected "Jacket" killer, makes him look kind of young or at least pretty fit. For the movie, they clearly wanted more of a horror vibe, so they made him a fat, grotesque, pig. That kind of says something about our society, when we make fat people the scary/ugly villains in our movies, yea? Sometimes I wonder if the original killer got his letter man's jacket from Track or Football. My uncle once said that he thought he'd make a good Rusher (sorry, I know that's a little tasteless.) Frankly, I thought that the A&E special (The Hotline Murders) was a little more interesting, but maybe that's just me.

Another thing about the movie is that they mostly have him killing teenagers instead of mobsters. I guess the whole "Mafia war" angle didn't scream horror movie to anyone. From what I hear, the murders put a proposed "Mark Bolan: Executioner" movie in development hell. I hear they're going to try again, this time with Gerard Butler as Bolan.

Sometimes, I think people take this stuff a little too seriously. I mean, murders happen all the time. It's not like someone getting stabbed in real life ever delayed a Jason film, so why were people so sensitive about the Miami stuff? I remember the crapstorm that happened they made that Miami flash game. What was so scary that a major 24/7 news channel would lose it over a little indie game on the internet? "Oh no, some kid might play an obscure video game on the internet where there's killing! Never mind all the killing that we show on CNN." What a load.

Nobody ever killed anybody because they were trying to be "Jacket". They'd get themselves killed if they tried, anyway.

EDIT: Crap, I just realized I posted this in the Gaming Discussion. Hotline Miami really doesn't have a lot to do with gaming, aside from that fan game. Sorry everyone.

 

[Zhukov]

I am so bloody confused right now.

Are you attempting something clever here or is Hotline Miami actually a thing other than that one violent indie game?

If the latter, then I had absolutely no idea.

 

[DoPo]

I requested the thread to be moved to OT for you.

With that said...are you sure that is an actual movie that exists...erm, in this reality? I hadn't even heard of it until now, and neither have, apparently, IMDb and Wikipedia. Google doesn't seem to recognise "jacket murder" or "the pig butcher" (or, like, it gets buried under "pig and butcher" results).

 

[SadakoMoose]

Yea, the terminology gets a little confused because of all the names that the tabloids gave the murders.
I'm not sure how to help you, but I hear that the trailer for the movie is online. Also, a fan made "sequel" trailer featuring a more accurate killer, wearing a Bunny mask.

Either way, the story actually kind of affects me personally. My mom was born in CA, so first she had to be terrified of the Mansons as a teenager. Then, in 89, she and dad were vacationing in Miami! It was actually pretty scary for them, because they were visiting their friends, the Alexoviches, and they weren't sure at the time if the Jacket killer (try animal mask killer, they called him that too) was going after ethnic Russians or just mobsters.

 

[sethisjimmy]

Took me a sec to realize that this is written from an in-universe perspective. Well written at that. Cool idea. I won't spoil it too much for you though.

 

[SadakoMoose]

Hey, just realized that I didn't post the trailer for the movie!
Why track it down when you have one stop shopping?
They really bumped up the quality for the DVD release!

 

[Lionsfan]

Took me a sec to realize that this is written from an in-universe perspective. Well written at that. Cool idea. I won't spoil it too much for you though.

Uh can you spoil it for me? Because I'm still pretty confused....

 

[SadakoMoose]

Took me a sec to realize that this is written from an in-universe perspective. Well written at that. Cool idea. I won't spoil it too much for you though.

Uh can you spoil it for me? Because I'm still pretty confused....

Ok so here's what's happened so far:
1989: The Jacket (aka, Animal mask or Hotline) murders. I don't need to go into the bloody details there, I'm not a true crime documentary.
1992-4: A slasher movie about the murders is made. We really don't need to go into the downfall of it's lead actor, it was all anyone could talk about in the news back then, except for the whole Pee Wee Herman porn theater thing.
2012: A fan made game based on the story is published online, and causes a massive uproar in the news media, you know: "video games are murder simulators! blah blah blah"
2013: I make this thread, hoping to talk with other people who:
1: Are familiar with the "Jacket" murders
2: Saw the movie and have an opinion on it
3: Played the fan game (likely on Steam or as a part of that Indie Bundle)
or all 3.

So what category do you fall in?
Personally, I think the game made the guy seem too fast and polished. He had to be some crazy street kid, so he was probably a lot sloppier.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

So what category do you fall in?
Personally, I think the game made the guy seem too fast and polished. He had to be some crazy street kid, so he was probably a lot sloppier.

Are you kidding, have you seen the original footage? Those skills are what made him so legendary in the first place. He moves like a fucking panther, strikes with cheetah like precision, knocks doors down as if he had horse's feet, and his owl eyes penetrate your soul. Yeah....I might be exaggerating, I've only seen the 80 second clip that was leaked. But man that guy was fast.

The movie was ok, I thought it was lacking in characterization though. But the sequel looks really interesting.

 

[Angie7F]

The trailer looks good

 

[Sack of Cheese]

Are you kidding, have you seen the original footage? Those skills are what made him so legendary in the first place. He moves like a fucking panther, strikes with cheetah like precision, knocks doors down as if he had horse's feet, and his owl eyes penetrate your soul. Yeah....I might be exaggerating, I've only seen the 80 second clip that was leaked. But man that guy was fast.

The movie was ok, I thought it was lacking in characterization though. But the sequel looks really interesting.

I'm interested. Where did you see the original footage? So it's taken from the real crime scene? Did they even have security camera back then?

 

[SadakoMoose]

So what category do you fall in?
Personally, I think the game made the guy seem too fast and polished. He had to be some crazy street kid, so he was probably a lot sloppier.

Are you kidding, have you seen the original footage? Those skills are what made him so legendary in the first place. He moves like a fucking panther, strikes with cheetah like precision, knocks doors down as if he had horse's feet, and his owl eyes penetrate your soul. Yeah....I might be exaggerating, I've only seen the 80 second clip that was leaked. But man that guy was fast.

The movie was ok, I thought it was lacking in characterization though. But the sequel looks really interesting.

Yea, still, I really wonder if that varsity jacket was legit. I can't imagine him not playing some kind of contact sport some time in the past. Frankly, I'm just glad they never caught the guy. Sure, the Pig Butcher movie makes him look like a total psycho, but the real deal apparently only ever killed mobsters. He might have even saved some junkie, even though they later charged him with the kidnapping.

 

[knight steel]

snip

Really the idea that the movie and fan game was based on the real total legit brutal killings kinda scares me, to think that a man [more like an animal] actual did all those horrible things amazes me-my grandmother said that she saw the killer from across the street in a biker helmet but I think she's just lying as every one said he only wore animal mask's.

 

[SadakoMoose]

snip

Really the idea that the movie and fan game was based on the real total legit brutal killings kinda scares me, to think that a man [more like an animal] actual did all those horrible things amazes me-my grandmother said that she saw the killer from across the street in a biker helmet but I think she's just lying as every one said he only wore animal mask's.

To be fair, while I've never BOUGHT the 2nd killer story (also known as the Biker theory), I have to say there is some compelling evidence. Like that body they found after the phone company massacre. PhonHom had to shut down after the scandal, because everybody thought they were connected to the Russian mob! Shame too, since it left ATT without competition. And that's why we all use U-verse. Anyway, most people think that the other guy was just at the office to rob the place or something. One criminal eating another, eh?

 

[Foolery]

Can't say I've heard of any jacket murders. But it does sound almost as disturbing as Richard Chase, also known as 'The Vampire of Sacramento'

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I'm interested. Where did you see the original footage? So it's taken from the real crime scene? Did they even have security camera back then?

It was on youtube under the account name 50_BLESS before being taken down quickly.

CCTVs first began tests in the late 1980s, and SadakoMoose says the murders happened in 1989. I think it's plausible that gangsters would have wanted some security. The version of the footage I saw was black white and might have been edited.

The

Yea, still, I really wonder if that varsity jacket was legit. I can't imagine him not playing some kind of contact sport some time in the past.

It's a good question. If the jacket wasn't legit, he would have had to get it custom made. Maybe the same place he got those masks.


The

Frankly, I'm just glad they never caught the guy. Sure, the Pig Butcher movie makes him look like a total psycho, but the real deal apparently only ever killed mobsters. He might have even saved some junkie, even though they later charged him with the kidnapping.

Yeah he only killed guys who were armed IIRC. The junkie got killed right? but the kill was too clean for it to have been done by him.

snip

Really the idea that the movie and fan game was based on the real total legit brutal killings kinda scares me, to think that a man [more like an animal] actual did all those horrible things amazes me-my grandmother said that she saw the killer from across the street in a biker helmet but I think she's just lying as every one said he only wore animal mask's.

Could have been a copy cat. But if he had the same MO, I'd doubt it.

 

[SadakoMoose]

I'm interested. Where did you see the original footage? So it's taken from the real crime scene? Did they even have security camera back then?

It was on youtube under the account name 50_BLESS before being taken down quickly.

CCTVs first began tests in the late 1980s, and SadakoMoose says the murders happened in 1989. I think it's plausible that gangsters would have wanted some security. The version of the footage I saw was black white and might have been edited.

The

Yea, still, I really wonder if that varsity jacket was legit. I can't imagine him not playing some kind of contact sport some time in the past.

It's a good question. If the jacket wasn't legit, he would have had to get it custom made. Maybe the same place he got those masks.


The

Frankly, I'm just glad they never caught the guy. Sure, the Pig Butcher movie makes him look like a total psycho, but the real deal apparently only ever killed mobsters. He might have even saved some junkie, even though they later charged him with the kidnapping.

Yeah he only killed guys who were armed IIRC. The junkie got killed right? but the kill was too clean for it to have been done by him.

snip

Really the idea that the movie and fan game was based on the real total legit brutal killings kinda scares me, to think that a man [more like an animal] actual did all those horrible things amazes me-my grandmother said that she saw the killer from across the street in a biker helmet but I think she's just lying as every one said he only wore animal mask's.

Could have been a copy cat. But if he had the same MO, I'd doubt it.

As for the CCTV, 'Chenko "The Walrus" was all over black market electronics and early computer crime. Tons of phreaking and modem equipment found at these scenes, though they were mostly using them to keep books on their designer drug trade.
Guess they thought it was more secure than paper.

As for the junkie, some people like to point a figure known mostly as "Richter". After the raid on 1 Police Avenue, they hushed up a lot of stuff. A few years ago a leaked case file revealed that they brought in a guy for questioning in relation to the case. Unfortunately, most of the lead investigators were also killed. He may have been a 2nd killer, or a hitman hired by the mob, or anything in between. Either way, she was riddled with bullets, which wasn't the Jacket's usually blunt object related M.O. He just takes a lot of crap because of how mysterious he was. Either way, it's a terrible way to go for a Poison groupie. Michaels should have been sued by her family.

Frankly, I'm starting to believe there really was a Motorcyclist.

Either way, I think my cousin dl'ed that 50BLESS video when it was uploaded. I keep asking him for it, but he stored on an HDD and it's lost in his house. That's why I keep all my thumb drives on my key ring.

 

[SadakoMoose]

well i played the game and i dont have the reflexes of a hyperactive 12yo on red bull anymore so i gave up

It's funny you should say that. Some people think that the original Jacket killer had some kind of high functioning autism that allowed him to hyper focus on tasks. This might explain some accounts of him "Jason Bourne-ing" people (if you'll forgive the anachronism).

 

[Melon Hunter]

Frankly, I'm just glad they never caught the guy. Sure, the Pig Butcher movie makes him look like a total psycho, but the real deal apparently only ever killed mobsters. He might have even saved some junkie, even though they later charged him with the kidnapping.

Yeah he only killed guys who were armed IIRC. The junkie got killed right? but the kill was too clean for it to have been done by him.

I dunno, I don't think we should step into the realm of praising the Jacket killer as an anti-hero vigilante. He did pretty much wipe out the Russian Mob presence in Miami at the time, true, but he also shot up an entire police station in the process. Over two dozen police officers killed, and all for what? I heard there was some evidence that 'Richter', one of the possible murderers of the junkie, was in the station at the time, but then that just makes it sound like a revenge killing. Not to mention the Russian diplomats killed at that hotel by Jacket. I have no idea what drove this guy, but I don't think it was some sort of twisted vigilante justice. I guess we can only be thankful that so much of his violence was directed towards mobsters...

In fact, thinking upon it, do you reckon he was being used? Blackmailed or something into killing Mafia members? It seems like the assaults got less and less methodological over time. Almost like he began to realise he had nothing to lose after starting to go down that path. Could be the death of the junkie pushed him over the edge.

I did hear about an account of a nurse who claimed to have been working in a Miami hospital in the June & July of 1989, who allegedly saw a young man matching the physical form of the Jacket killer seen in the security cam footage, who had a heavy police presence around him at all times. Sounds pretty intriguing, but then they claim the (alleged) Jacket killer just up and vanished one day in late July. Bear in mind, up until this point, the nurse said he was in a deep coma from some sort of head wound. Apparently, he woke up from the coma and snuck through several floors of heavy security just like that. It kinda kills the account's credibility for me--horrific as the Jacket killings were, it was just one guy. Like the Pig Butcher embellishment, I hate seeing people try and elevate him into some sort of supernatural avenger.

 

[knight steel]

snip

Really the idea that the movie and fan game was based on the real total legit brutal killings kinda scares me, to think that a man [more like an animal] actual did all those horrible things amazes me-my grandmother said that she saw the killer from across the street in a biker helmet but I think she's just lying as every one said he only wore animal mask's.

To be fair, while I've never BOUGHT the 2nd killer story (also known as the Biker theory), I have to say there is some compelling evidence. Like that body they found after the phone company massacre. PhonHom had to shut down after the scandal, because everybody thought they were connected to the Russian mob! Shame too, since it left ATT without competition. And that's why we all use U-verse. Anyway, most people think that the other guy was just at the office to rob the place or something. One criminal eating another, eh?

Yeah all of it just one big cycle killer eating killer-If the Biker theory is true I wonder if he ever met the jacket killer and what would've happened if they did........?