Poll: How Do You Justify Music Piracy?

Jan 11, 2009
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If the band pursues a campaign of not letting anyone put videos of their songs on youtube, I sometimes feel the need to "try before I buy" if you will.

Unsurprisingly, these bands usually turn out to be shit.
 

kebab4you

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Jan 3, 2010
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Think Extra Credit said it well, when there is no way to get it where you live, then you can go ahead and do it(If I remember correctly it was that).

Buuut usually the music I listen to is free or the authors provides links to download from on there homepage.

googleback said:
i11m4t1c said:
Because musicians are twats.

/notsrs


But if someone can legally watch the music video or song on youtube for free, how is it any different from downloading the song?

From a technical perspective, when you stream a video, the content still goes onto your harddrive (into the temp folder), so really, what's the difference between that and just downloading the song while cutting out the middleman (the web browser)?
you purchase the right to ownership which you do not have with an illegal download, you also don't have a hard copy that you can take anywhere when you watch it on You tube.

That's like radio on demand, not an actual copy of the track.
If it goes in the temp folder you can save it to some other folder and as thus keep it. And then you can just make your own copy on to a cd or something and have a physical copy of it also.

Hell there is even apps for just this;
 

iDoom46

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Dec 31, 2010
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I make it a point to support up-and-coming and other smaller bands/musicians.

As for the bigger, more famous artists... well, I usually SAY I'm going to buy the CD, and I usually do if I want good quality, but I don't always follow through...

I also boycott iTunes (like hell I'm paying $2 per song!), but have too much pride to use Zune Marketplace.
 

googleback

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Apr 15, 2009
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kebab4you said:
Think Extra Credit said it well, when there is no way to get it where you live, then you can go ahead and do it(If I remember correctly it was that).

Buuut usually the music I listen to is free or the authors provides links to download from on there homepage.

googleback said:
i11m4t1c said:
Because musicians are twats.

/notsrs


But if someone can legally watch the music video or song on youtube for free, how is it any different from downloading the song?

From a technical perspective, when you stream a video, the content still goes onto your harddrive (into the temp folder), so really, what's the difference between that and just downloading the song while cutting out the middleman (the web browser)?
you purchase the right to ownership which you do not have with an illegal download, you also don't have a hard copy that you can take anywhere when you watch it on You tube.

That's like radio on demand, not an actual copy of the track.
If it goes in the temp folder you can save it to some other folder and as thus keep it. And then you can just make your own copy on to a cd or something and have a physical copy of it also.

Hell there is even apps for just this;
yeah but just like something like listentoyoutube.com you still have to rip it pirate style. just because its streamed to you doesn't give you any rights to it.
 

Nerfherder17

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May 16, 2011
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I'm a huge KISS Fan but Gene can be a prick sometimes....

Back to the question,
Sometimes I feel guilty for pirating the smaller bands, not so much the richer ones.
Back to the example of Gene (Who has sculptures and weird shit of himself, just as a tribute to his own ego) does not need my money. I paid to see KISS live and thought it was worth every penny. For this reason we need to stop labelling art as being just another product, (although certain manufactured groups are formed for the intent of profit, but i'm talking about bands i listen to, actual artists), and if bands are any good they can make a living from their live shows.

however, this is my reason, although i know that it is totally selfish, oh well thats just me i guess
 

Floppertje

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Nov 9, 2009
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well, most of what I download I wouldn't buy anyway, so they don't lose a customer if I download it. it's kinda like if someone asks me if I want to buy it, and I'd say no, but then someone asks me: want it for free? then I'd say: sure, why not?
and I honestly DO buy physical albums of bands I like to not screw them over.

kinda shit reasons, I know. but it's really all I've got :p
 

Fetzenfisch

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Sep 11, 2009
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as i see it. everyone who does what the thread wants to , breaks a forum rule. So i say /thread. (for it is a trap)

but i guess the hones common opinion is " i want it, i can have it in half a minute, so i do it"
Switched to vinyl completely. try to pirate a LP :p The extra style is worth every cent and they arent more expensive than lame cds.
 

Ickorus

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Mar 9, 2009
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To be honest if I have ever pirated something it was with the full intention of paying when I have the money.

Thankfully I haven't technically pirated anything as the website I use to download my music is one which does so with the permission of the artists, as such it is a website dedicated to indie music.
 

zarguhl

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Oct 4, 2010
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I haven't pirated for years, I used to justify it by saying the music industry are a bunch of racketeers and are thus basically criminals.

I decided that as that is true, I'm better off just having nothing to do with them. I figure it's a kind of trap, they create something to tempt you, that is natural for you to want (i.e. music) but then they make it impossible to get in your country, or charge insane fees for it with arbitrary limitations, etc. Thus I decided to leave the game entirely. As such I now buy one or two CDs a year if i REALLY like something, otherwise I just don't buy or listen to music at all (beyond the radio).

I still rent TV shows off iTunes US store though (the Australian store is garbage).
 

EllEzDee

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Nov 29, 2010
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Valagetti said:
If you can't get it 'legally', then its "alright" to pirate it.
User received a warning for this post.
Fascism at its finest. The point of the thread was to ask for justification on music piracy. Smooth moves on smothering his opinion.

As for my own justification, if you can't afford it, buy it later.

Piracy isn't as terrible as it's made out to be. You might download it for now, allowing you to enjoy it and tell your friends about how good the song is - increasing the number of fans of the artist - only to purchase it (and possibly even the whole album) at a later date.
Had you purchased the album for just that song (fuck itunes, in the face), you'd have felt cheated for having to buy an entire album just for a single track, radically changing your view of the artist - leading to no friends being informed > no additional fans > no additional revenue.

Of course it doesn't always work this way, but the gist of it is that you should at least keep in mind that a person pirating the music without purchasing it is infact better than someone not purchasing the song at all, for the reasons mentioned above. The person isn't taking anything, but can potentially give something back, through word of mouth etc.
 

littlemissplum

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Jul 16, 2011
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Music piracy should be legal because everyone does it! I don't know anyone who buys music anymore! Police can't catch anyone so they should just give up and make it legal already. Whether or not they say, everyone does it, it's so popular they should just listen to what the people actually want and make it legal.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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well back when I was younger I had no money and I lived out in th middle of nowhere so I had no access to a store

thease days I actually buy CD's because I love "discovering" an album...

plus limewire..yeah Im not putting that shit on my PC
 

P.Tsunami

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Feb 21, 2010
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Oh, Lord, this discussion again. First of all, why is the burden of evidence over here? Why is the question "How do you justify music piracy", and not "How do you justify demonizing the sharing of music"?

Honestly, with some attempts at a music career behind me, this has been a question I've tried to think about from different angles, and they mostly come up on the pro-file sharing side. I'll recount the two I find most relevant.

1. From your (or my) perspective, I've yet to see a good explanation for why it's supposed to be illegal. Copyright law is a rather vague and complicated area, with a lot of shades of gray. Surprisingly, I hear it referred to as 'stealing' a lot. This is simply not true. Absolutely nothing is removed when something is copied. This invariably leads to the argument that potential profits are removed, which is a half truth at best, willfully ignoring that clearly, many download as a way to try before you buy. I honestly see little fault in that, and it's certainly not theft. We hit a common problem, though, the lack of reliable statistics and -facts- in the discussion. The few statistics the RIAA trump up are usually old, outdated and used rather dishonestly, when they're not made up from whole cloth. As far as I know, the other side really has no statistics to back up any claims. Either way, I have trouble seeing this as -clearly- wrong from the keyboard side of things. It's problematic at worst.

2. From the perspective of the musician, the idea that illegal file sharing is killing their livelihood is patently ridiculous, one forwarded only by those knowing little about the financial realities of the music business or rather dishonest people. The sale of music albums usually make up a rather small portion of a musician's total income. I'm a little too tired to do the estimates right now, but what most bands receive from album sales is usually a pittance, most profits being given to middlemen and the record company. In the other hand, income from merchandise sales and concert tickets - a much more reliable, stronger source of cash, at that - is something that an artist usually sees a much, much higher share of. For a musician, the income from album sales is often a minor part of his income. However, file sharing means a musician easily reaches a much larger audience, generating even greater income in merchandise and ticket sales. For a musician, the way I see it, file sharing is outright profitable.

So let's not pretend we're protecting the poor, starving musicians. They're better off in this world of YouTube and torrents. The ones in need of protection, and desperately so, are the record companies. When they rose to the prominence they have today, during the first half of the 20th century, the record company was a musicians only avenue to reaching a wider audience. No one else had the know-how and resources to put all the pieces (producer, studio, sound engineer, publishing, logistics...) together in one place. They were an essential part of the music industry, and the industry as we know it today could not exist were it not for the record companies.

A band like Arctic Monkeys demonstrate that you can perfectly well find a wide audience without the help of a record company. Up until 2005, before the release of Whatever You Say I Am, That's What I'm Not, the band relied on MySpace and distributing records personally to fans, and they did so with remarkable success. When they did sign onto a label, convenient for any artist, they signed onto a small independent label. I for one suspect that the mega-labels have outlived at least some of their usefulness. At this stage, I believe it is in their best interest (and the music industry's) to evolve, lest they slowly perish.

There's one question in all of this that dumbfounds me. See, there's no doubt that both the music, movies and video games industry have serious challenges ahead, in a world where all their products can be easily acquired and enjoyed free of charge. The question bugging me is, why is our first resort to outlaw what seems to me to be the common practice? File sharing is so widespread, criminalizing it seems like a disastrous societal step, as you're making criminals of a large percentage of the population. This does not seem conducive to a long term solution. What I would like to see is the industry demonstrating some forward-thinking, and try to find ways to work with it; the internet, after all, offers huge opportunities to easily meet larger markets than ever before. Let's take advantage of that, and try to work around the threats in a creative way.

TL;DR: I absolutely do not need to justify illegally downloading music (although I happen to not do it). There's little wrong with it, and criminalizing and demonizing the practice is unhealthy and unproductive.
 

Astoria

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Oct 25, 2010
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Well the reason I do it is because I simply can not find the albums anywhere. Any album I know I can find I will legally buy. I don't buy music online because I don't have any credit cards and my parents would refuse to let me use theirs. I know its wrong but I kinda don't have a choice really.
 

ChildofGallifrey

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May 26, 2008
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Arisato-kun said:
I've seen plenty of artists advocate it.

The way I choose to support my bands is to go to their shows and buy some merch. They see more money from that. If the artist is operating on their own independent record label then I'll buy their CD.
This. A lot of the artists signed to major labels hardly see any money from album sales; that mostly goes to the companies. Bands mostly make their money off concerts and merch.

Maybe my opinion doesn't count much, since I'm just starting an acting career and I'm hardly involved in major productions yet, but if I were starring in a movie and people were pirating it, I wouldn't mind. If they want to watch my movie bad enough to pirate it, I take it as a compliment that they're willing to go that far to see it. Who knows? Maybe if they like it enough, they'll buy the DVD, or go see my next film in theaters.
 

NIHILHATE

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Aug 21, 2009
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The way I see it, a real Musician just wants their Music to be heard. Don't get me wrong, if I had the money I'd buy all the CDs I could afford, but I used to buy my music from pawnshops anyway, so the bands never saw any of the profits even when I was getting it legally. Music is my life, I don't know what I'd do without it. You can't put a price on that. Obviously if you want them to be able to continue writing music you should support them, but music is a right, not a privilege, and anyone who says otherwise is a facsist. Hehehe.
 

P.Tsunami

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Feb 21, 2010
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NIHILHATE said:
The way I see it, a real Musician just wants their Music to be heard.
Now, real musicians need to eat, too. But don't accept the spin; musicians aren't harmed nowhere near as much as the RIAA insists. Merch and gigs is where the money's at, and even discussing a musician's income in this debate is in my view completely irrelevant. That's simply not what the issue is about.
 

MrMrAwesom

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Mar 19, 2011
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I justify it as not actually stealing... It's like drinking from the sea, yeah I'm sure there's a way to pay to do so but I can just sort of walk around Mr. psycho asking for money

Oh! more like a swimming pool! you can go pay to do so or you can go to a friends & do it for free or go see a guy but his pool might not be clean & give me the sniffles.