Poll: http://www.conservapedia.com - people really agree with this?

[Souplex]

Atheism is the worship of Athe, with the end goal of Athe consuming all other gods and eventually the universe.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

It seems to me that true depths of human stupidity where never truly seen until the Internet was invented.

 

[grimsprice]

*snip*

Thank you! I think you put it very well.
I simply didn't know how to get this across any better than the way I had tried to.

As a wise turtle once said," The past is history, the future is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why they call it the present."

I like my present, and i will enjoy the fact that it was given to me, and i will play with it until it breaks. And for those presents that i don't like, i'll just play with them while my family is here... then i'll put them in my closet and forget about them.

That, is my favorite way of explaining the atheist views on the importance of life.

 

[Skeleon]

and why do you define what you've done as good? i'm not saying that you should be placing a higher value on the reawrds afterwards, i'm trying to figure out why you're doing anything... "because we only have one chance" doesn't really cut it since that "one chance" won't have any effect... and how is anything that untimately won't matter "worthwhile"? it's like... one night you and everyone around you drink so much alcohol that you'll forget everything that ever happened that night... what was the point of doing it? to party? you won't remember it... to pass the time and get that night over faster? you could have just taken a sleeping pill and passed the time that way...

As grimsprice said, that's the big difference between us that we're trying to get you to understand. Just because we don't believe in gods, we still have morals, values and goals. The things we see as important, they are the things we want to devote our life to. And if we manage to fulfill these goals we set ourselves, then our life will have been worthwhile when it comes to a close.
It's not about "filling the time" or "taking something with me" (memories), it's about doing what you feel is right in life. And, again, as atheists we do have morals and values, thus "doing the right thing" for the right thing's sake is not wasting time.

 

[Eisenfaust]

In short, we will never be able to understand each other. We think in different ways. The problem is language. Not the best at getting thoughts across is it?

i'm actually trying to understand what your view is... to me it makes no logical sense (and yes, religion probably makes no logical sense to you, etc, etc, but i'm not trying to get you to understand me, i'm trying to understand you so just leave it out, will you?)

i can understand what you're all trying to do when applied to my situation, in which i'll be able to look back afterwards on the time that i didn't waste, but from what i gather, from your perspective its "do what you can now because you won't have a chance again, even if you never ever remember anything you've ever done or will do now or in the future" i know you probably think i'm short-chaning it there but i'm trying to summarise in the most consise way i can here... when i put myself in your shoes and think that, it just doesn't seem to make sense... yes, you want to live life to the fullest so you don't waste your time here, but what does your time here ultimately mean? you might think that this world is the only thing that matters, but my question is why does it matter? because you can never do it again? you can never remember it again... it just seems... oxymoronic (or whatever, i'm tired so shhh) to say that you have to live this life to the fullest, when what you do will ultimately be lost, resulting in nothing (please note the use of ULTIMATELY)...

 

[Dahemo]

Conservapedia is a sanbox for baby wiki trolls, as you can endlessly spawn drama by spamming "Read Origin of the Species Newbs" or conversely add drastically exagerrated right-wing standpoints "Jesus was tortured for our souls, now we torture to save lives!" and be shocked when people agree. No danger of trolls remorse, guaranteed.

It is worrying that these are some of the views held by people in the real world, but these extremists (of the left as well, I'm struggling not to hit something when these green campaigners display anti-nuclear slogans) are mercifully in the minority...

 

[Eisenfaust]

As grimsprice said, that's the big difference between us that we're trying to get you to understand. Just because we don't believe in gods, we still have morals, values and goals. The things we see as important, they are the things we want to devote our life to. And if we manage to fulfill these goals we set ourselves, then our life will have been worthwhile when it comes to a close.
It's not about "filling the time" or "taking something with me" (memories), it's about doing what you feel is right in life. And, again, as atheists we do have morals and values, thus "doing the right thing" for the right thing's sake is not wasting time.

but won't it not matter in the end? when everyone is dead? i'm not saying your not moral people (i know plenty of athiests and its not as if your all mass murderers...) it just seems that your own arguement on the afterlife should mean that it shouldn't matter what you do here... and the people who are affected by "the right thing" that you did will end up just like you, and so will the people they do "the right thing" for and so on. If everything goes to nothingness, everything you do is just another step on the road to nothingness... which... just seems pointless.

oh and, here's yet another horrible metaphor... if someone killed a giant horrible slime monster made of eel guts and shoes that is disgusting in every single way, and served it to you as a meal and said "its the one chance you'll get to eat it, there are no more" would you eat it? even if it tastes really, really horrible? as soon as something this bad was served to you, wouldn't you just walk away? (yes, horrible metaphor, i know... it doesn't even entirely encapsulate what i'm trying to say, but still... strange metaphors are always fun)

 

[grimsprice]

In short, we will never be able to understand each other. We think in different ways. The problem is language. Not the best at getting thoughts across is it?

(1)i'm actually trying to understand what your view is... to me it makes no logical sense (and yes, religion probably makes no logical sense to you, etc, etc, but i'm not trying to get you to understand me, i'm trying to understand you so just leave it out, will you?)

(2) i'll be able to look back afterwards on the time that i didn't waste,

(3) when i put myself in your shoes and think that, it just doesn't seem to make sense...

(4) what does your time here ultimately mean?

(5)what you do will ultimately be lost, resulting in nothing (please note the use of ULTIMATELY)...

(1) My point is that neither of us will be able to explain or understand each other.

(2) You live for the future, the reward at the end.

(3) You can't put yourselves in my shoes because of point number one.

(4) Short answer. Nothing. Long answer, on our death beds, we don't care about what it means, only that we enjoyed it.

(5) We do not live for the sake of remembering what we did. We live for each moment independently. Laughing with friends and enjoying myself is not great because i can remember it later, but is enjoyable at the time.

 

[Skeleon]

but won't it not matter in the end? when everyone is dead? i'm not saying your not moral people (i know plenty of athiests and its not as if your all mass murderers...) it just seems that your own arguement on the afterlife should mean that it shouldn't matter what you do here... and the people who are affected by "the right thing" that you did will end up just like you, and so will the people they do "the right thing" for and so on. If everything goes to nothingness, everything you do is just another step on the road to nothingness... which... just seems pointless.

oh and, here's yet another horrible metaphor... if someone killed a giant horrible slime monster made of eel guts and shoes that is disgusting in every single way, and served it to you as a meal and said "its the one chance you'll get to eat it, there are no more" would you eat it? even if it tastes really, really horrible? as soon as something this bad was served to you, wouldn't you just walk away? (yes, horrible metaphor, i know... it doesn't even entirely encapsulate what i'm trying to say, but still... strange metaphors are always fun)

Sorry, but I give up. Probably my last post. I can't explain it to you, I really tried.

Let me just point out one of the things I said several posts ago:
Even if my kids and grandchildren are dead, my legacy would still live on. There'd be my grandchildren's kids, their kids and so on. My life may not be remembered completely, but what I did certainly mattered, because otherwise my descendants wouldn't exist and affect their world. And what I did affected my world, thus affected the world to come as well.
There is a legacy, even if my name may be forgotten.
But that alone is not the reason I try to do the right things.

You probably won't find this an exhausting answer, either, but still:
I do what I feel is right because I feel it's right. Because I want to do them. Because I want my life to represent these things and values that I hold dear. To me, that is not pointless at all. Yes, I will die and I will not remember any of it. But today (as in, "during my life") it matters, because it's what I deem important, what is of value to me, not some authority that's going to judge me after my death. I judge myself by my own moral standards and try to live my life accordingly.

As for your example, no, I wouldn't eat it. But that implies that I consider life as something slimy, disgusting and horrible. Which I don't!
You mean to ask whether I would try everything that I am given, just because it's singular. No. Hell, no. If I was suffering from incurable cancer resulting in unbearable pain, nausea and whatnot (or something similarily horrifying), maybe I'd kill myself.
I can't really tell because I'm not in that situation.
But that is not the way my life is. It's not perfect but I enjoy it, why would I throw it away?

 

[Xojins]

I laugh at every conservapedia article I read.

 

[Skeleon]

*snip*

Thanks, I guess.

One of the things you said just made me think of a little thought experiment of mine:
I always thought that, if there was some kind of higher power, it would judge a person based on their intentions and deeds, not some arbitrary faith (after all, it depends on your family what faith you're raised with).

With the majority of people split into 4 religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism) and the rest distributed among all the others (and don't forget the many generations before us, when today's religions didn't even exist!), any kind of higher power could not judge people on the specifics of faith.

So, thanks for not condemning me to hell based on my lack of belief in it. ;-)

 

[Kriptonite]

Wow, still unlocked. Neat. Anyway, I think atheism is just not believing in god or whatever it is where you are.

 

[Eisenfaust]

(1) My point is that neither of us will be able to explain or understand each other.

(2) You live for the future, the reward at the end.

(3) You can't put yourselves in my shoes because of point number one.

(4) Short answer. Nothing. Long answer, on our death beds, we don't care about what it means, only that we enjoyed it.

(5) We do not live for the sake of remembering what we did. We live for each moment independently. Laughing with friends and enjoying myself is not great because i can remember it later, but is enjoyable at the time.

Just because i live for the future, doesn't mean i can't look back on the past... and at the very least i can try to put myself in your shoes... it's a shame they're just too full of your broken logic... (mixed metaphor, i know, shhh)

and what is the point of it being enjoyable at the time?! this is the point i've been trying to make! ULTIMATELY, if nothing that anyone does will be remembered by anyone, if it holds no significance over anything, if as soon as you die, that moment passes into oblivion as well as how you FELT at that moment, what is the point?! when you wake up and can't remember the night before, it's as if it never happened... when you wake up, you know nothing of what happened... the night before might have been the most fun night of your life, but you don't remember it... so assuming you knew you wouldn't remember, why did you do it? what was the point? to have fun? YOU CAN'T REMEMBER THE FUN! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE EXPIERENCE WAS LIKE! you would have said at the time "because i can, so i might as well"... BUT WHY?! YOU DON'T FREAKING REMEMBER! you'll never ever know about it ever again, and the expierence of doing it at the time is just as meaningless... i know you say you don't do it to remember it but WHAT ELSE IS THERE?! ULTIMATELY, whatever you do will be irrelevant... so why do it? no one has given a logical answer to it (NO, NONE OF YOU DAMN WELL HAVE! -- see the word LOGICAL!) It makes no damn sense!

Sorry, but I give up. Probably my last post. I can't explain it to you, I really tried.

Let me just point out one of the things I said several posts ago:
Even if my kids and grandchildren are dead, my legacy would still live on. There'd be my grandchildren's kids, their kids and so on. My life may not be remembered completely, but what I did certainly mattered, because otherwise my descendants wouldn't exist and affect their world. And what I did affected my world, thus affected the world to come as well.
There is a legacy, even if my name may be forgotten.
But that alone is not the reason I try to do the right things.

You probably won't find this an exhausting answer, either, but still:
I do what I feel is right because I feel it's right. Because I want to do them. Because I want my life to represent these things and values that I hold dear. To me, that is not pointless at all. Yes, I will die and I will not remember any of it. But today (as in, "during my life") it matters, because it's what I deem important, what is of value to me, not some authority that's going to judge me after my death. I judge myself by my own moral standards and try to live my life accordingly.

As for your example, no, I wouldn't eat it. But that implies that I consider life as something slimy, disgusting and horrible. Which I don't!
You mean to ask whether I would try everything that I am given, just because it's singular. No. Hell, no. If I was suffering from incurable cancer resulting in unbearable pain, nausea and whatnot (or something similarily horrifying), maybe I'd kill myself.
I can't really tell because I'm not in that situation.
But that is not the way my life is. It's not perfect but I enjoy it, why would I throw it away?

let ME point out something i've said in basically every post. ULTIMATELY. if you're right, ULTIMATELY you're legacy won't mean anything... ULTIMATELY it will cease to exist... besides... anything you get out of life will be even less fleeting than the life you got them. WHY do you consider that right? what is right and wrong when nothing ULTIMATELY matters? Assuming christianity, etc is right about the afterlife, everything you do is testing you, determining your character... if athiests are right, everything you do will boil down to nothing, so whats the point in doing it? and i DID tell you that it was an imperfect metaphor (the monster was a metaphor for life, btw, not everything ever) that i only put in because i like strange metaphors...

it seems to all come down to "ultimately". if athiests are right, and there's nothing after (or whatever the hell specifics you want to get into), ULTIMATELY nothing you do will hold any significance... to seriously say that there's a point to something that is insignificant seems a little strange...

 

[grimsprice]

Just because i live for the future, doesn't mean i can't look back on the past... and at the very least i can try to put myself in your shoes... it's a shame they're just too full of your broken logic... (mixed metaphor, i know, shhh)

Why do you have to be so condiscending? Oh wait, i know, because you think you have the moral high ground. I had my fears about you from the get go. And this last post just confirms it. All you wanted was to hear an atheist say they were wrong. You never wanted to know anything, you just wanted to tell us that you were right, and you have meaning in your life when we don't. You refuse to accept our answers when we give them, and you berate our lives because you think one day you'll be sitting compfy in heaven laughing while we burn.

Let me tell you one thing, you will never be a better person than us. You who do what is right out of fear. Just because you don't want to burn. We do what is right because we place value on it. We enjoy, live, and love more than you could ever imagine.

I'm sorry you wasted my time and skeleons time. And i'm sorry you have to think so little of us, its just the sign of ignorance and stupidity.

NOTE: This is intended to be said with an air of somber remorse. This is in no way yelling or flaming.