Poll: I want to change the Gamer reputation.

[grassgremlin]

Group Created: #Istandforbatboy http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/IStandForBatboy

I'm a non-gamergate initiative. Gamergaters are welcome, but I will be treating this as a separate entity.


I believe in 100% with everything below I type. If it's a lie to you given my position, you are mistaken.



I believe in the unheard voices and ending the corruption in the gaming industry.

Update: Anyone want to talk directly about it. I can share Skype information so we can discuss it. At this point, it's best to be transparent about who I am just in case many are weary about this.

We should rally behind a movement for the betterment of how hobby based on the real issues.
Our goals would be simple

Edit: These are flexible. I'm taking suggestions on what we can edit and change what I have presented. Make sure everyone has a voice.
**Edit:: Edited out mentions of TvW and Anita.
***Edit:: I'm upgrading this cause into developing a website.

1) Allow the unheard voices to be known.

2) Gamer as a term that means: A person who plays video games. Take back from harassers. Instead, they should be called trolls. They do not define us as gamers.

3) Find a solution to alternate reviews and not relying on review score.

4) Compare games with there genres. Push to allow games to be reviewed base closely on how they are defined by similar play mechanics. Fighting games should be reviewed against other fighters, RPGs to other RPGS, visual novel or games without a defined win state should be judged together.

5) We will try to make sure video games are being discussed on the subject OF video games without trying to destroy alternative critiques. We will promote critique on video game mechanics.

6) Open discussion on all opinions. Destroy the echo chamber and unite all gamers.

7) Not only call out the gaming press, but publishers, developers and you tubers who participate in nefarious practices.

8) Extract ourselves completely from Gamergate. Gamergate will not be mentioned or apart of our narrative.

Edit:

9) @notthebees has suggested that we can rally to create a website. I like this idea.

What we will not do.

1) Threaten or engage in violence, reveal personal information that might be used for threatening and/or illegal activity, or commit acts of cyber-vandalism intended to thwart the communication of others' views, towards anybody. Anyone who does engage in these acts does so in complete defiance of our mission, should not be considered a part of it, and does so despite our explicit disapproval.
2) Rally against social justice and feminism. This is about video games not political issues!


I'm willing to discuss how we can get the point of cross. I made these points on the fly and willing to dispute them to better define them.

Suggested Hashtags
#Istandforbatboy

 

[Hoplon]

I would dearly love to vote but the option for "DEAR GOD MAN ARE YOU TRYING TO GET MAIMED" seems to be missing.

Laudable goals, but honestly a terrible idea.

 

[grassgremlin]

I would dearly love to vote but the option for "DEAR GOD MAN ARE YOU TRYING TO GET MAIMED" seems to be missing.

Laudable goals, but honestly a terrible idea.

Refresh. My bad. I made a mistake on the what we will not do.
We WILL extract from Gamergate. Will not be associated with it.

 

[grassgremlin]

I think this is a fantastic idea. There are things that people could discuss to add or remove from it, but instead of a hashtag, I think you might want to go all out and create an actual website, with an actual platform and a phrase that can be used as a hashtag. So when people abuse the hashtag, you can redirect people to the website.

Also, a website would allow people to go in, have forums for discussion, blogs that could be posted, articles that could help the cause, people that can be behind the cause, people that can get articles by other journalists, or internet "celebrities" that would like to join the cause, etc. It would be a place that would more or less be the hub of the base. Not a "leader" as for some reason I've always been accused of trying to force, but a hub of information, a place for people to go, and moreover a place where you can have a motto, your mission statement, and clear, defined goals.

It would also allow people in the forums to not be agitators, so that you can moderate it. It would take some effort, and you would have to find volunteers to help run it, but if you had people that wanted to get behind it, I think you could really make some good, positive changes. I think it would be something that could be a really positive movement. And distancing yourself as far from GamerGate by doing the opposite, a real protest movement, instead of a "collective" would be a step in the right direction.

But that's just my idea.

I like that idea. I suck at web design, but i'm willing to rally support for it.
I do feel like this issue isn't enough for a hashtag. We can help in changing the industry instead of criticizing it.

 

[dragoongfa]

I appreciate the sentiment but you should have added the option: It's a good idea but it will still be tainted because it's twitter.

The moment a group of trolls start doing the same shit with the new hashtag except the same 'toxic' and 'unsalvageable' stuff to be thrown in as well.

And remember, #GamerGate is the second tag to be used...

 

[Akjosch]

I think it's a fantastic idea. Start this new movement, without GamerGate, without the people currently involved in GamerGate, and I wish you all the best.

If you succeed, GamerGate itself will likely falter since it'll lose its main talking point. And that will be a good day for everyone.

 

[grassgremlin]

I think it's a fantastic idea. Start this new movement, without GamerGate, without the people currently involved in GamerGate, and I wish you all the best.

If you succeed, GamerGate itself will likely falter since it'll lose its main talking point. And that will be a good day for everyone.

Exactly. We need to make these issues known and the best way to do that is to separate them from what harassment and issues not about video games.

 

[Davroth]

I wish you best of luck with your endeavour. I'd love to see this succeed.

As much as you want to extract yourself from GamerGate, at the end of the day, you make the same enemies GamerGate does. As such, you will very likely be met with the same kind of animosity. Or, even worse, you'll be seen as a subsidiary of GamerGate regardless of what stance you take on them. See what good it did for GamerGate to openly condemn harassment and reporting harassers and so on, they were only further demonised as time went one. I foresee a similar fate for this should it take off.

This is not meant to discourage anyone from trying though. The sad truth is that you need to experience what happens when you try to criticise those people. And maybe if you grow big enough, you'll see as well.

That said, again, best of luck.

 

[grassgremlin]

Okay, that's great. But if you don't mind a little advice? I only got two pieces, and I'll try to keep them short.

1. Quit "wanting" to start it. Just start it. - As long as you want to start it, it will never happen. Just do it. I speak from personal experience. It's going to take work, and odds are good that you'll fail, but until you actually start doing it those odds that you fail are 100%. And regardless of whether or not you succeed, the more work you put into it, the bigger the payoff is for you and everyone who helps you. Work towards a failed project is still work, and work is how we learn to do things better.

2. Don't aim to create a movement. Just create a space. - The Escapist really dropped the ball on this score because I don't think the movement you want to create is possible here. The space is incompatible with rational discussion because anyone can shut it down if they spout enough nonsensical conspiracy theories, and the mods will let them do it as long as they don't say any mean words about anyone who posts here. So the website idea, that's great. But you've got no guarantees about who will join you. So instead of defining your success or failure state on how many people join up with you, lay it on your creation of the tools that people would want to use. People may not join up with you due to factors beyond your control, but if you make a good environment with a good set of tools for discussion, you'll still have made something. Which would put you on higher ground than 99% of the people mucking up your discussion.

Best of luck to you.

These are all good points. Thank you for the suggestion. I'm more interested in influence the quantity of people who jump in. Get the message heard and we can discuss how we'll be able to create this.

Heck, I'm a bit nervous, but I think I feel very strongly about this. I been vocal up to this point about it, might as well work hard and hope for the best.

 

[Davroth]

So, out of curiosity, will those in support of GamerGate not be allowed to support your new movement as well?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well, that's all very well and good, in theory, but to get it to work in practice...

I like the idea of having a dedicate website as a safe space to discuss this, and keep harassment out, but most sites say they want people to be safe there, to be free of harassment, and for things to be fair...only they find out that there's a lot of effort into keeping things that way, and don't really bother following through. It's hard work, and there's no middle ground, saying you want X to feel welcomed means you have to take a stand against Y who doesn't.

And with an issue like this, you are going to get a lot of people who don't want others to be welcome.

You also can't keep politics out of games, or really anything else. You can say "I don't care", but politics, society and whatnot affect everything.

 

[grassgremlin]

So, out of curiosity, will those in support of GamerGate not be allowed to support your new movement as well?

That depends on what you are supporting.
I will say you will be denouncing the toxic nature of gamergate. My main goal is seperating what gamergate has become and what it should be. Basically, to make what people call "the smoke screen" into a tangible goal and rallying call.

 

[grassgremlin]

Well, that's all very well and good, in theory, but to get it to work in practice...

I like the idea of having a dedicate website as a safe space to discuss this, and keep harassment out, but most sites say they want people to be safe there, to be free of harassment, and for things to be fair...only they find out that there's a lot of effort into keeping things that way, and don't really bother following through. It's hard work, and there's no middle ground, saying you want X to feel welcomed means you have to take a stand against Y who doesn't.

And with an issue like this, you are going to get a lot of people who don't want others to be welcome.

You also can't keep politics out of games, or really anything else. You can say "I don't care", but politics, society and whatnot affect everything.

I understand. I'm actually nervous about it, but I been too vocal about it. In all honestly, being involved in something like this is what I always wanted to do. I like being involved in the gaming industry.

What the main plan to do is to make sure we can have the politics while stressing the discussion of game mechanics too. Like you said. You can't please everyone, but we can try to please those who might be concerned or disenfranchised by the notion of politics overtaking there hobby.

The main goal is making sure no person's agenda is being pushed. Making sure your gaming interests is based on your own interest and not on one specific narrative. Making sure all sides can have a voice and ending the fear of disagreeing with someone's point without being slandered by names or questions of your political ideologies.

We can at least try to create a safe place for gamers who in the end, just want to play video games without feeling guilty. We all do, honestly. And we can do that without silencing the voices of those who do want to talk politics in relation to games.

 

[Davroth]

So, out of curiosity, will those in support of GamerGate not be allowed to support your new movement as well?

That depends on what you are supporting.
I will say you will be denouncing the toxic nature of gamergate. My main goal is seperating what gamergate has become and what it should be. Basically, to make what people call "the smoke screen" into a tangible goal and rallying call.

Some would argue that GamerGate is already doing that, and it does nothing to improve their credibility. But I see this is going to be a futile discussion since you seem pretty set on your opinion.

That said, I'll follow this with interest should it ever come into existence.

 

[grassgremlin]

So, out of curiosity, will those in support of GamerGate not be allowed to support your new movement as well?

That depends on what you are supporting.
I will say you will be denouncing the toxic nature of gamergate. My main goal is seperating what gamergate has become and what it should be. Basically, to make what people call "the smoke screen" into a tangible goal and rallying call.

Some would argue that GamerGate is already doing that, and it does nothing to improve their credibility. But I see this is going to be a futile discussion since you seem pretty set on your opinion.

That said, I'll follow this with interest should it ever come into existence.

Thank you for the response. I'll be working hard to get this to become tangible.