Poll: I want to change the Gamer reputation.

[grassgremlin]

And what exactly would stop articles in the vein of "Mysogynistic movement gamergate starts new hashtag to further harass women!" from popping up?

It won't be associated with gamergate.
It'll be a seperate entity.
That will be made clear from the start.

I'll make it clear. If you're for this you'll be disbanding from gamergate.

I believe the hashtag is tainted by it's origins and ideologues.
So, in other words. You're not welcomed if you decrying "dem sjws" or how much you hate them "feminists."
Those will NOT be what this movement is about.

The point is. It's about video games and nothing else.

 

[Erttheking]

Well I wish you luck with this endeavor. It sounds like you got your work cut out for you.

 

[grassgremlin]

Well I wish you luck with this endeavor.

You would not believe how nervous I am about it.
I'm also just hoping I don't quit while I'm ahead or procrastinate. Only human.
Still, yes, this is literally the first time I ever took a stand on something to this magnitude.

I'm small too. Way small. Just a humble furry artist with very little influence.

It sounds like you got your work cut out for you.

Truer words never spoken

 

[Lucem712]

[    ]|:{

Got a name for the movement, yet? Maybe as a starting point, you could create an Escapist User-group. As a rally point and that way you can discuss how to move forward with your members.

 

[grassgremlin]

[    ]|:{

Got a name for the movement, yet? Maybe as a starting point, you could create an Escapist User-group. As a rally point and that way you can discuss how to move forward with your members.

Currently debating on something simple.

 

[Lucem712]

[    ]|:{

Got a name for the movement, yet? Maybe as a starting point, you could create an Escapist User-group. As a rally point and that way you can discuss how to move forward with your members.

Currently debating on something simple.

It's an easy way to get a group of people together. Feel free to send me an invite if you create one.

 

[Mikeybb]

I fall in the maybe category here.

While for the moment I still support and will continue to support gamergate, elements within gamergate have become frustrating of late.
However, I won't elaborate further on that matter as it would be derailing to the topic of this thread.

The other reason I stand as a maybe is that a second movement would be a good test of the claim that was made by games journalists, in that a new tag would be engaged with enthusiasm by them.
It would be good to see if they are as good as their word in this regard and, should they prove to be willing to accept criticism from this second tag, as opposed to taking a dismissive stance toward their concerns, then it would not only legitimize the new movement, but the journalists in question.

However, I suspect there may be a pushback should some of the points brought up by this new movement parallel the ones brought up by gamergate, insofar as this new movement could be accused of simply being gamergate under a new name and subsequently be dismissed out of hand.

Suffice to say, it'd be interesting to see if a new tag was supported and effective.

 

[Davroth]

So, in other words. You're not welcomed if you decrying "dem sjws" or how much you hate them "feminists."
Those will NOT be what this movement is about.

The vast majority of GamerGate does nothing of the sort. What will you do to keep the "bad eggs" out? All it takes is a few people using your hashtag in combination with GamerGate or to harass someone, and it will be 'poisoned' in no time. Genuinely interested how you plan to avoid that from happening.

 

[Ragnar47183]

Maybe its because i never got into the whole social media thing but I cant take anything that says "hash tag" seriously.

Nor could I take a movement by the name of "gamer gate" seriously. There are two reasons for this:

1. You are associating the severity of your cause with Watergate and it just makes your movement look silly.

2. People are taking video games WAY to seriously. Who cares about journalist ethics in fucking video games? What? Magazine X took money to give game Y a higher score? Developer X slept with person Y to do thing Z?

Well its a good damn thing I can think for myself isnt it?

I guess its a good sign that people have so much free time to waste on such stupid things. It means they are well off enough to not be working to the point where they have no time for this.

I have a great idea actually. How about instead of wasting time on this crap, you fight for something that actually matters? I didn't realize that our world was such a utopia that we were at a point of making movements about fucking video games.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Some would argue that GamerGate is already doing that, and it does nothing to improve their credibility. But I see this is going to be a futile discussion since you seem pretty set on your opinion.

Trouble is, they're not doing it very well, because there is no concerted effort going on to address the real ethical problems of videogame journalism (everyone's already forgotten the Shadow of Mordor thing, the people who people are abandoning print websites in favour of due to their so called "authentic" voice are actually completely for sale unless they've got the market cloud of TotalBiscuit), the only concerted efforts are to suppress any feminist critique of games or the "gamer" identity based on an imagined persecution complex, and the tactics they're using to do so are going to bite them in the arse the next time a publication pumps the review score because the advertisers got on the phone, GamerGate is likely to create a world where advertisers have unprecedented control over the editorial because that's what "gamers" have shown they want. Remember, the next time a mediocre game gets a good review whilst the site was advertising it, you made that happen GamerGate, you established that power relationship between advertiser and editor.

 

[grassgremlin]

So, in other words. You're not welcomed if you decrying "dem sjws" or how much you hate them "feminists."
Those will NOT be what this movement is about.

The vast majority of GamerGate does nothing of the sort. What will you do to keep the "bad eggs" out? All it takes is a few people using your hashtag in combination with GamerGate or to harass someone, and it will be 'poisoned' in no time. Genuinely interested how you plan to avoid that from happening.

I understand what you're trying to say. It's something I've made an effort to think about.
The best honest to goodness way of combatting that would be to rally with people who are also against gamergate.

The purpose of the hashtag is common grown. There are people who disagree with the current gaming narrative who I could call out to support this, actually.

I been trying to contact people like Matt Lees and Jim Sterling about it just to see there thoughts.
I'm also actively trying to talk to the people who have made articles against gamergate.
There are two sides to every issue so I want to stand in the middle to see which people we can try to get support and which not.

I'm mainly calling for the people who have remained very neutral, though.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I admire your goal to make a detached movement that appears less aggressive and wish you luck, but I don't believe anything will be accomplished. People originally made/joined the movement because they thought there was no other choice; that diplomacy had already failed on all fronts. I can't see a smaller movement work under a more neutral stance when the entire point GG exists is because all the people involved believe the force they fight isn't one that can be reasoned with.

But you can try anyway, and I wish you luck if you do. Just expect to be very limited in what you can call them on or disagree with, though. Just like Jonathan Mcintosh says in his twitter: "Centrism is dangerous. You can not meet somewhere in the middle between hate and justice. If you try, you will always surrender justice." In other words, if you disagree with them, you are the enemy.

 

[grassgremlin]

Some would argue that GamerGate is already doing that, and it does nothing to improve their credibility. But I see this is going to be a futile discussion since you seem pretty set on your opinion.

Trouble is, they're not doing it very well, because there is no concerted effort going on to address the real ethical problems of videogame journalism (everyone's already forgotten the Shadow of Mordor thing, the people who people are abandoning print websites in favour of due to their so called "authentic" voice are actually completely for sale unless they've got the market cloud of TotalBiscuit), the only concerted efforts are to suppress any feminist critique of games or the "gamer" identity based on an imagined persecution complex, and the tactics they're using to do so are going to bite them in the arse the next time a publication pumps the review score because the advertisers got on the phone, GamerGate is likely to create a world where advertisers have unprecedented control over the editorial because that's what "gamers" have shown they want. Remember, the next time a mediocre game gets a good review whilst the site was advertising it, you made that happen GamerGate, you established that power relationship between advertiser and editor.

This right here is the chief concept of what sets what I want do apart from what Gamergate does.

 

[grassgremlin]

I admire your goal to make a detached movement that appears less aggressive and wish you luck, but I don't believe anything will be accomplished. People originally made/joined the movement because they thought there was no other choice; that diplomacy had already failed on all fronts. I can't see a smaller movement work under a more neutral stance when the entire point GG exists is because all the people involved believe the force they fight isn't one that can be reasoned with.

But you can try anyway, and I wish you luck if you do. Just expect to be very limited in what you can call them on or disagree with, though. Just like Jonathan Mcintosh says in his twitter: "Centrism is dangerous. You can not meet somewhere in the middle between hate and justice. If you try, you will always surrender justice." In other words, if you disagree with them, you are the enemy.

Then we become another kind of Justice.

 

[Davroth]

So, in other words. You're not welcomed if you decrying "dem sjws" or how much you hate them "feminists."
Those will NOT be what this movement is about.

The vast majority of GamerGate does nothing of the sort. What will you do to keep the "bad eggs" out? All it takes is a few people using your hashtag in combination with GamerGate or to harass someone, and it will be 'poisoned' in no time. Genuinely interested how you plan to avoid that from happening.

I understand what you're trying to say. It's something I've made an effort to think about.
The best honest to goodness way of combatting that would be to rally with people who are also against gamergate.

The purpose of the hashtag is common grown. There are people who disagree with the current gaming narrative who I could call out to support this, actually.

I been trying to contact people like Matt Lees and Jim Sterling about it just to see there thoughts.
I'm also actively trying to talk to the people who have made articles against gamergate.
There are two sides to every issue so I want to stand in the middle to see which people we can try to get support and which not.

I'm mainly calling for the people who have remained very neutral, though.

If you want neutral people, Matt Lees and Jim Sterling are among the last people you should ask.

edit: So.. you want to ask anti-GG people but not pro-GG people? Who's that neutral then? :/

 

[grassgremlin]

So, in other words. You're not welcomed if you decrying "dem sjws" or how much you hate them "feminists."
Those will NOT be what this movement is about.

The vast majority of GamerGate does nothing of the sort. What will you do to keep the "bad eggs" out? All it takes is a few people using your hashtag in combination with GamerGate or to harass someone, and it will be 'poisoned' in no time. Genuinely interested how you plan to avoid that from happening.

I understand what you're trying to say. It's something I've made an effort to think about.
The best honest to goodness way of combatting that would be to rally with people who are also against gamergate.

The purpose of the hashtag is common grown. There are people who disagree with the current gaming narrative who I could call out to support this, actually.

I been trying to contact people like Matt Lees and Jim Sterling about it just to see there thoughts.
I'm also actively trying to talk to the people who have made articles against gamergate.
There are two sides to every issue so I want to stand in the middle to see which people we can try to get support and which not.

I'm mainly calling for the people who have remained very neutral, though.

If you want neutral people, Matt Lees and Jim Sterling are among the last people you should ask.

edit: So.. you want to ask anti-GG people but not pro-GG people? Who's that neutral then? :/

I'll just declare it.
This movement isn't neutral when it comes to Gamergate and anything related to it.
So yes, this is a anti-gamer gate movement.

The reason I'm being passive about it is the assumption will be I agree with everyone on the anti-gg side, which is not the same. I only agree with some of the people. This is based on what I believe in more then what others believe in.

 

[Davroth]

So, in other words. You're not welcomed if you decrying "dem sjws" or how much you hate them "feminists."
Those will NOT be what this movement is about.

The vast majority of GamerGate does nothing of the sort. What will you do to keep the "bad eggs" out? All it takes is a few people using your hashtag in combination with GamerGate or to harass someone, and it will be 'poisoned' in no time. Genuinely interested how you plan to avoid that from happening.

I understand what you're trying to say. It's something I've made an effort to think about.
The best honest to goodness way of combatting that would be to rally with people who are also against gamergate.

The purpose of the hashtag is common grown. There are people who disagree with the current gaming narrative who I could call out to support this, actually.

I been trying to contact people like Matt Lees and Jim Sterling about it just to see there thoughts.
I'm also actively trying to talk to the people who have made articles against gamergate.
There are two sides to every issue so I want to stand in the middle to see which people we can try to get support and which not.

I'm mainly calling for the people who have remained very neutral, though.

If you want neutral people, Matt Lees and Jim Sterling are among the last people you should ask.

edit: So.. you want to ask anti-GG people but not pro-GG people? Who's that neutral then? :/

I'll just declare it.
This movement isn't neutral when it comes to Gamergate and anything related to it.
So yes, this is a anti-gamer gate movement.

The reason I'm being passive about it is the assumption will be I agree with everyone on the anti-gg side, which is not the same. I only agree with some of the people. This is based on what I believe in more then what others believe in.

So then your OP is pretty much a lie, since it clearly is political. Good to know. This makes me a lot less hopeful for the future of this endeavour. Straight anti-gg movements have come and gone in a matter of days or sometimes hours. I fail to see how this one is going to different if you wanna foster the whole "us vs them" mentality even further. :/

 

[grassgremlin]

le snip

Gamergate is REALLY good at doing that.
I mean atleast those you call SJW's accept when people disagree with them.
Gamergate has the same narrative. If I'm not for you I am against you.
I can't speak like a rational adult to Matt Lees or Jim Sterling because they are your enemies.

They're not mine. They're other human beings I can talk to about human beings things.
I don't peg people as enemies for the crime of disagreeing with me.
But the thing is I also agree with them on various points. That is how I can connect to them.
I see value in some of there opinions.