Poll: If you were spanked as a child, do you think it made you a better person?

Trolldor

New member
Jan 20, 2011
1,849
0
0
Nyaliva said:
This is to quash a claim on another thread that anecdotes from people who were spanked aren't proof it works and another person questioned when opinion becomes survey data?

I say: when you make a Poll on the Escapist!!!

So, if you were spanked as a child, please answer whether you support it, due to your own experiences or otherwise. If you weren't spanked, please don't say yes or no solely based on your own opinion of spanking. I've made some options for you, partially to keep you from lying and ruining the poll but also to answer a statistical question of my own...

Have fun, discuss and don't be jerks!!
It becomes data when you have several hundred respondants with background checks and confirmation and analysis and... well, a lot of things.

Also, data says spanking doesn't do shit in the long term - negative or positive. Not so long as it's "reasonable" - ie not harming or damaging.
 

Intronaut

New member
Dec 24, 2010
11
0
0
AndyFromMonday said:
Stasisesque said:
Yet, that is exactly how I (and I would imagine many others) would describe a spanking. An open palmed, sharp but not excessive, slap to the backside/back of the leg. NEVER the head, or torso. Only padded areas in which a slap will do no harm beyond a red mark and some over the top tears from the child.
It's still using violence to discipline a child and that I can never agree to. If you're unable to discipline your child without the use of force then why the fuck did you have a child in the first place? And this still does not nullify my argument. Cutting can also be used in the same way and so can burning, pulling out hairs etc. It hurts and gets the message across. Spanking uses fear and pain to discipline a child and if that technique isn't as frowned upon then why are other techniques that use the same method not used and considered child abuse? Either all of them are legal or none.
The problem with your analogy is one of severity. Cutting and burning your child is far beyond smacking him on the ass a few times.
 

Nyaliva

euclideanInsomniac
Sep 9, 2010
317
0
21
Zarmi said:
Wasn't spanked. And I find it stupid to assume it makes you a better person. Let me ask you this, will you be a better person if I punch you in the face? I doubt it.
No but you'd have to take these three things into account:

I have no idea who you are;
I've done nothing wrong to provoke such an outburst;
I'm 18 and understand right from wrong enough to no longer need that kind of punishment.

Seriously, spanking isn't something you continue into teenage years, it's for kids who are old enough to try stupid things but young enough not to know the consequences. As they get older you have to use other methods such as taking away privileges (Please note, the reason this approach won't work for the younger kids is because it's too long term. A smack is a quick, short sharp reminder not to do that).

Spanking doesn't make you a better person but it can teach you not to do things and teach you right from wrong. What I'm trying to ask here is whether people who were smacked think it taught them right from wrong rather than turning them into the bitter, sociopathic misanthropes the psychiatric societies seem to think smacking produces.
 

AndyFromMonday

New member
Feb 5, 2009
3,921
0
0
Intronaut said:
The problem with your analogy is one of severity. Cutting and burning your child is far beyond smacking him on the ass a few times.

How so? Advocates of spanking say that if it's done right then it can be a good tool to discipline your child. I'm making the same argument.
 

Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
3,024
0
0
AndyFromMonday said:
It hurts and gets the message across. Spanking uses fear and pain to discipline a child and if that technique isn't as frowned upon then why are other techniques that use the same method not used and considered child abuse? Either all of them are legal or none.
You're missing the point. Yes cutting, burning, bruising, breaking and beating are all ways to deliver pain and they definiely would get the message across. The reason why they aren't used is because they're far too severe. A smack on the arse is a feather tickle compared to heates scissor handles on your flesh.

It's the same reason we imprison criminals rather than execute them. Both are supposed to solve the problem but one is more severe than the other.
 

Nyaliva

euclideanInsomniac
Sep 9, 2010
317
0
21
AndyFromMonday said:
Intronaut said:
The problem with your analogy is one of severity. Cutting and burning your child is far beyond smacking him on the ass a few times.

How so? Advocates of spanking say that if it's done right then it can be a good tool to discipline your child. I'm making the same argument.
Cuts and burns leave scars and can hurt for days, a smack lasts about 5 minutes, as a result they would be much more traumatic for the child. I know what you're trying to say but I can never agree. I'm sure you'll say the same about spanking though so I guess we've hit a dead end.
 

katsumoto03

New member
Feb 24, 2010
1,673
0
0
Yes. It made me a benevolent fucking paragon because it totally has lasting psychological effects.

No, seriously.
 

Zorg Machine

New member
Jul 28, 2008
1,304
0
0
It should not be condoned. There are other ways that have been proven to work without the side effect of traumatizing.

I was not spanked however, my mother was and I can tell you that it really gave her some issues.
I guess the question is, would you risk traumatizing your kid and messing them up in the future (not to mention them resenting you) for the simpler, easier method of raising children.

Then again, what do I know. I live in Sweden where only the extreme majority would spank their children and by some magical wonder, we're not all fucktards.
 

AndyFromMonday

New member
Feb 5, 2009
3,921
0
0
Dr Snakeman said:
AndyFromMonday said:
meowchef said:
Again... spanking and beating aren't the same thing... Spanking is generally considered just a swat on the butt that from my experience is more of a surprise/scare than physical pain. Beating is what you're referring to... the cases of child abuse and all where there are bruises, broken bones, injuries, etc.
A swat on the butt? So you consider spanking someone slapping a child on the butt? You either have a gross misinterpretation of spanking or you've never been spanked yourself. A slap on the butt is miles away from what spanking actually is.
Actually, I'm going to say that you are the one with the misinterpretation of spanking. Yeah, a real spanking can be described as a swat. Maybe a couple swats.
It can, but so can hitting the child repeatedly on the butt either hard or not. Spanking is defined as "the act of slapping on the buttocks". This is a very vague definition and it does not in any way refer to the intensity of the slap nor the duration.

Even if it was just a few slaps on the butt I still do not agree with any form of corporal punishment.


Intronaut said:
I was spanked as a child. I love both of my parents and harbor no resentment whatsoever. Besides, I always preferred spanking to any other form of discipline - 5 minutes, and then its over. The few times I was grounded were horrible.
Isn't this proof spanking is not a good way to discipline a child as it has basically no effect?
 

Stasisesque

New member
Nov 25, 2008
983
0
0
AndyFromMonday said:
Intronaut said:
The problem with your analogy is one of severity. Cutting and burning your child is far beyond smacking him on the ass a few times.

How so? Advocates of spanking say that if it's done right then it can be a good tool to discipline your child. I'm making the same argument.
You're using a strawman argument to justify your stance.

If someone came up to you now and gave you a quick smack on the backside, would you react the same way as you would if they cut you, tore your hair out, burned you?

In Canada, USA, UK and Australia, smacking or spanking a child is perfectly lawful within your own home. It's been discussed to death, there's no data to support it has any positive or negative long term effects - and it is used, within reason, as an immediate deterrent. It is only when the spanking/smacking becomes unreasonable that it is considered child abuse. And yes I know you and countless others are going to jump on this and ask at what point does it become unreasonable, and no I do not have an answer for this. My parents (supposedly) spanked me when I had been, for want of a better term, a complete and utter little shit. I am well aware I was at times a vicious sod and have absolutely no doubt I deserved a quick sharp smack to the backside to get me to knock it off. I did, I have a fantastic relationship with both of my parents (whom, considering I was a mistake of a one-night stand, did a stellar job of raising me) and would never, ever resent them for their parenting technique. They are as far from child abusers as Mr Rogers.
 

JoeThree

New member
May 8, 2010
191
0
0
I was spanked VERY scarcely, but when I was, maybe a total of 4 times in my life, it was because I completely deserved it and I probably should have been spanked one or two more times.
 

Nabohs

New member
Jan 18, 2011
47
0
0
I was a bad kid when I was younger, so if I didn't get beaten as a child, I probably wouldn't be as disciplined around the age of 6 compared to how disciplined I turned out to be
 

MassiveGeek

New member
Jan 11, 2009
1,213
0
0
I've never been much of a wild child, so to speak.

I mean, I haven't done anything stupid enough to deserve any type of proper punishment. ._.'
 

Dana22

New member
Sep 10, 2008
1,274
0
0
katsumoto03 said:
Yes. It made me a benevolent fucking paragon because it totally has lasting psychological effects.

No, seriously.
By lasting psychological effect, you mean that children learns that every action (whether good or bad) has its consequences ? I agree.
 

Koroviev

New member
Oct 3, 2010
1,599
0
0
Nyaliva said:
This is to quash a claim on another thread that anecdotes from people who were spanked aren't proof it works and another person questioned when opinion becomes survey data?
Assuming this may be a reference to something I said, I'd just like to point out that conducting an inherently biased survey on an online forum will not serve to dispel the claim that anecdotal evidence does not a good argument make.
 

Kilyle

New member
Jan 31, 2011
61
0
0
"Spanking" can mean anything from soft (zero-pain) swats to belt-whipping. When AndyFromMonday compares it to "cutting your child," I'm certain that even though we're using the same word, we're not talking about the same thing.

So let me define "spanking" as I will use it here:

"Spanking": The use of minimal physical force to inflict surprise (milder form) or pain (stronger form), without any lasting physical injury, by using the hand, or an appropriate tool, on the rear end (where fat tissue helps cushion against injury).

A child recently spanked may suffer a sore bottom for, say, half an hour, if that. Anything more lasting (can't sit down for 24 hours, blisters, scarring, etc.) would fall under "whipping" or "beating", neither of which I advocate for parental discipline. Spanking, as I use the term, falls far short of physical abuse.

If, despite that definition, you still think there's no distinction between "spanking" and "cutting", then I wonder how well you fare with other scales that differ by magnitude. Is a "breeze" as destructive as a "hurricane"? Are "mild government regulations" as invasive as "tyranny"? Slippery Slope much?

But anyway.

In 32 years, I've never thought spanking unjustified, but I've adjusted my view on WHEN it is justified. In general, if the kid still responds to discussion, reason, and logic, if he submits to basic commands and discipline such as "go to your room," then there's absolutely no reason to spank. I don't care if you told him not to play ball in the house and he did and broke the front window AND your mother's favorite Ming vase: There are other ways to handle this. Scold him, send him to time-out, take away privileges, hand him more chores, sit him down and discuss his feelings... whatever works. If he's still talking, or just being sullen for a while, then physical pain is not necessary; spanking, for me, is not a punishment.

But consider a child who has gotten into a downward spiral of rage or rebellion, forsaking reason and resorting to tactics based on "Give in to me OR ELSE!" Younger children have temper tantrums; others may start destroying things, or disrupt the family and outright refuse to stop ("I'm not moving out of the way/letting go of this thing come hell or high water"). When talking doesn't get you anywhere, and they won't follow basic orders, what then?

Ayn Rand posits that if a person has left the world of People (who can be reasoned with) and chosen to act like an Animal (who cannot), the tactics have to change. In my view, the aim of appropriate discipline is to bring the child back into the world of reasonable People again as efficiently as possible, preferably with long-term benefits such as avoiding similar situations in the future. (The same reason you don't ever give in to the kid screaming for candy at the check-out line. Even if you have to give up your groceries and leave the store.)

So, basically, if the kid is in a downward spiral right now, and isn't kicked out of it by a simple command, then here comes spanking: The last resort for very specific circumstances in which other tactics will not help. It's a Reset Button for the will. It snaps them out of it and lets them choose a better path; this is especially important with younger children, who may not understand how to get out of the spiral on their own. (I think letting a four-year-old throw an hour-long temper tantrum is abuse in and of itself.)

Spanking gets the attention fast. It reminds the kid of who's in charge, forces them out of the negative spiral, and moves them back toward a positive relationship with the family.

This is already pretty long, so here's my final thought:

When we were ready to start church today, my 7-year-old nephew was lying under the piano bench (he does that now and then). Mom told him to move; he refused. She bade me deal with it. I gave him one command, and when he refused, I said "We are leaving this room NOW," took him by the arm, and pulled him across the floor. It took him two seconds to decide he could get up and walk, and we exited together. After we got to the Sunday School room, I talked with him a bit and determined that he was just very tired, so I let him sleep through the whole service.

That minimal amount of force, in pulling his arm, gave him the clear message that I was prepared to go all the way. It made him reconsider his options and choose to act differently. He turned back to a fairly reasonable kid almost immediately; our conversation got him the help he needed, and church was not disrupted more than absolutely necessary.

There's no way I would have sat there trying to bargain with the kid as the church service waited for us. It would have been rude to everyone there, and my own embarrassment would have made me harder on my nephew than I had to be. By forcing him to comply at first, I was able to get us to a place where we could hold a reasonable discussion, pin down the reason for his unreasonableness earlier, and find an appropriate solution.

My niece (12) knows that I'm willing and able to drag her down a hallway if I need to enforce discipline (did that once when she refused to stop antagonizing her brother, and then refused to go to her room). Because of that, I no longer need to drag; if it gets near that stage, I only need to mention "You know I'm willing to drag you" and surprise, she chooses to go by herself. It's the same with spanking: If you're doing it right, the kid will only need three or four in his entire life (and they don't even need to be all that painful).
 

AndyFromMonday

New member
Feb 5, 2009
3,921
0
0
Stasisesque said:
If someone came up to you now and gave you a quick smack on the backside, would you react the same way as you would if they cut you, tore your hair out, burned you?
Depends. I wasn't burned nor cut as a child and I'm fairly sure a big majority of the western world hasn't used these tools as a form of discipline. There needs to be more data but as it stands, I see no difference between spanking and burning as long as they're both done right.

Stasisesque said:
. It's been discussed to death, there's no data to support it has any positive or negative long term effect

There's no data?

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20100412/spanking-linked-to-kids-later-aggression

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/culture/family/2701-new-study-finds-spanking-is-good-for-kids

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-16/health/spanking.children.parenting_1_spanked-new-study-author-and-research-scientist?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/13/earlyshow/living/parenting/main6391729.shtml

http://www.parentingscience.com/spanking-children.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080228/spanking-raises-chances-of-risky-deviant-sexual-behavior.htm

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/02/27/spare-the-rod.html

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/04/12/spanking-makes-children-more-aggressive-study-shows/

There are studies showing both positive and negative effects. These are all the links I found on the first page of google after searching for studies.

And if there are no negative or positive effects to it then why should we use it?

Stasisesque said:
and it is used, within reason, as an immediate deterrent.
Why should it be? My father never spanked me and yet I've never acted out when I was in his pressence. He neither spanked me nor screamed at me, nor punished me. The only thing that he did do was tell me if what I was doing was deterimental or not. He managed to keep me in line a long with my aunts 3 children with never using any sort of behavior that could be considered aggressive.
 

Intronaut

New member
Dec 24, 2010
11
0
0
AndyFromMonday said:
Dr Snakeman said:
AndyFromMonday said:
meowchef said:
Again... spanking and beating aren't the same thing... Spanking is generally considered just a swat on the butt that from my experience is more of a surprise/scare than physical pain. Beating is what you're referring to... the cases of child abuse and all where there are bruises, broken bones, injuries, etc.
A swat on the butt? So you consider spanking someone slapping a child on the butt? You either have a gross misinterpretation of spanking or you've never been spanked yourself. A slap on the butt is miles away from what spanking actually is.
Actually, I'm going to say that you are the one with the misinterpretation of spanking. Yeah, a real spanking can be described as a swat. Maybe a couple swats.
It can, but so can hitting the child repeatedly on the butt either hard or not. Spanking is defined as "the act of slapping on the buttocks". This is a very vague definition and it does not in any way refer to the intensity of the slap nor the duration.

Even if it was just a few slaps on the butt I still do not agree with any form of corporal punishment.


Intronaut said:
I was spanked as a child. I love both of my parents and harbor no resentment whatsoever. Besides, I always preferred spanking to any other form of discipline - 5 minutes, and then its over. The few times I was grounded were horrible.
Isn't this proof spanking is not a good way to discipline a child as it has basically no effect?
Not necessarily. Though I preferred it to other forms of discipline, it still wasn't a pleasant experience. It should be reserved for children under the age of 10 in my opinion. Children tend to be inherently irrational and incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions, so a physical form of discipline is necessary.