Poll: Injustice of the Permaban

[Souplex]

I can't think of anyone who's been banned in recent years who didn't bring it upon themselves.
Back in the day we had an overzealous mod named NilCypher, but nowadays, I haven't seen anyone get in trouble without deserving it.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I've seen a few people banned for silly things but for the most part it's because they kept doing silly things.
As long as the rules and moderation don't inhibit discussion then it's fine.

Though I know for certain that at some point in the future I will be banned for discussing drugs. I can't help it, it's one of my favourite topics for discussion. I dislike the fact that it's banned and to be honest don't really understand why. Seeing as the mods are most likely going to be watching this thread, if one of them could explain why, I'd be very grateful.

[small]I'm going to receive a warning for this, aren't I?[/small]

Depends on what you want to discuss. Something like "should drugs be legalized" is totally fair game. But admitting to committing a crime - which taking or selling drugs is in the US - is a bit of a gray area for us. It could, in theory, get us into legal trouble. If we have evidence you're committing a crime and do nothing about it, we could theoretically be held liable. Yes, we really could.

So if you want to talk about drugs in the abstract, fine, but refrain from telling us about the amazing you time you had snorting lines off your Vita's screen, ok?

A reply from the editor in chief? I feel honoured.
Thank you for your reply, and that's really helped clear things up. I never realised that you could get in legal trouble and now I completely understand.

If you care to indulge me further, would that also be applicable to Non-US citizens? Or is that where the aforementioned grey area occurs?

Perhaps I should venture over to R&P and see if I can't get some interesting discussion going! Though from what I've heard, R&P is a bit of a mixed bag and something akin to mixing petrol, diesel and propane in a blender.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Maybe its just me, but I think I only went into the yellow one block (if they still do it colour coded) at my peak. Currently I'm completely clean and I have quite a few posts on the site. So i think its more on the user than anyone to control themselves when posting. If youre being unnecessarily heated (or just didnt read the rules which in that case you do deserve it for not taking five minutes to read the rules of the site) then its your fault for doing so.

BUt then again, thats just me, and I'm generally pretty non inflammatory.

 

[blackrave]

Well that would technically count as giving everyone 16 chances.

I would've have thought those 8(!) warnings would have been enough of a second chance. If someone doesn't get it by that time, he probably just isn't going to get it, if you ask me.

No.
Your second chance begins after your first Warning. Then, you're given a third chance, a fourth chance, a fifth chance, a 3-day vacation and a sixth chance, a 2-week vacation and a seventh chance.

Then, after your seventh chance, you get banned. But, according to you, nobody deserves a third chance, so people should be banned after their first warning.

Wait this is gaming website isn't it?
I approached warning bar as something like health bar.
When you're down you get another chance after some while.

I would even go that far as getting rid of permaban altogether
And replacing it with 1y extended ban only
(maybe with only partially cleaned warning bar- when ban is lifted you have 6/8 of the warning bar)

P.S. Man, I love carpet bombing

 

[Drathnoxis]

snip

I would even go that far as getting rid of permaban altogether
And replacing it with 1y extended ban only
(maybe with only partially cleaned warning bar- when ban is lifted you have 6/8 of the warning bar)

P.S. Man, I love carpet bombing

I agree, I think this sounds like an improvement on the system.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I've seen a few people banned for silly things but for the most part it's because they kept doing silly things.
As long as the rules and moderation don't inhibit discussion then it's fine.

Though I know for certain that at some point in the future I will be banned for discussing drugs. I can't help it, it's one of my favourite topics for discussion. I dislike the fact that it's banned and to be honest don't really understand why. Seeing as the mods are most likely going to be watching this thread, if one of them could explain why, I'd be very grateful.

[small]I'm going to receive a warning for this, aren't I?[/small]

Depends on what you want to discuss. Something like "should drugs be legalized" is totally fair game. But admitting to committing a crime - which taking or selling drugs is in the US - is a bit of a gray area for us. It could, in theory, get us into legal trouble. If we have evidence you're committing a crime and do nothing about it, we could theoretically be held liable. Yes, we really could.

So if you want to talk about drugs in the abstract, fine, but refrain from telling us about the amazing you time you had snorting lines off your Vita's screen, ok?

A reply from the editor in chief? I feel honoured.
Thank you for your reply, and that's really helped clear things up. I never realised that you could get in legal trouble and now I completely understand.

If you care to indulge me further, would that also be applicable to Non-US citizens? Or is that where the aforementioned grey area occurs?

Perhaps I should venture over to R&P and see if I can't get some interesting discussion going! Though from what I've heard, R&P is a bit of a mixed bag and something akin to mixing petrol, diesel and propane in a blender.

Yep, that's the grey area. Admitting to smoking weed is no big deal in, say, Amsterdam, where that's totally legal. But it all gets a bit squidgy, because just because you say you were there doesn't mean you were, etc, etc. It's just easier for us to avoid all potential issues by having it be against the rules, period.

 

[kailus13]

So if you want to talk about drugs in the abstract, fine, but refrain from telling us about the amazing you time you had snorting lines off your Vita's screen, ok?

For when the hookers are asking for too much money?

The notion that you cannot post large amounts without being banned falls apart when you consider that there is a group solely for people who have posted 5000 times without getting a warning. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/The-Neo-d

Wait, they're supposed to send out an invite to anyone with a neo badge? But I got mine over 2,000 posts ago, and I never got an invite. Still got a squeaky clean health bar, too. Not that it really matters

That's what is says on their frontpage. You could always try PMing the group leader if you want.

Doesn't everyone have to read the CoC when they first join? I did, then had to read it again before I could post.

 

[Random Argument Man]

I remember 2008...and how we felt like small children with strict parents back then. If we did something bad, we knew consequences were bound to happen. Some mods were downright terrifying based on their harshness. Today, Mods are more like watchful parents. They will step in when the needs occur and they will react based on the severity of the transgression.

Besides, if you're worried about moderation, there's a few easy things that you can do to avoid being banned.

A. Ask yourself "If I was somebody else, would I find this insulting?". If yes, then change the message to something acceptable.
B. People often get banned on "How" they say things than "What" they say. Watch that.
C. Don't get into arguments where you know that you'll get angry and insult others. You'll waste energy for basically not much.

 

[CriticalMiss]

8 chances seems very fair to me, certainly so if it puts the fear of Mod in to people who are quick to insult others. And if you don't agree with the rules you can always not post any more and go somewhere else, no apologies if you get called names when you get there.

 

[wulf3n]

I don't see the Permaban being that useful.

A rational person that gets permabanned because of a build up of minor infractions is just going to leave and you lose what they may have contributed.

A troll is just going to come back with a new name/email, and continue to Troll.

Eventually all you'll have is people who don't post much and trolls.


While I generally think moderators do a fairly good job handing out warnings/bans where needed, I've also received my fair share for seemingly trivial things, Such as an accidental double post which I apologized for in-post, but still got 1 more notch on my ban-bar, others include "low-content" because I was able to express my ON TOPIC opinion in three words.

 

[grey_space]

Offensive Posts
Please read what you wrote before you post it and think if anyone else could find it offensive

Is so vague it's practically useless. Anyone can find it offensive? Anyone can find anything offensive

Hopefully no one on the entire internet finds this post offensive, or I'm in trouble.

I find the word 'offensive' offensive!!!!


It's a derogatory term for the plural of my people, the Offencarians.

But ya that's a point I suppose either everything is potentially offensive or indeed nothing is.

But OT;

As a relatively new member, I find the modding fine. And even the rules seem clear enough to me (don't be a jerk, and say something constructive towards the debate/discussion)

If I want to be a bit of a dick or get into a flamewar with an eejit on the internet, there are plenty of other places to go, Like Bullshido or 4chan.

Here, the lord of (relative) politeness rules.

Which is just fine by me.

 

[Rednog]

I'm honestly starting to roll my eyes at threads like these and the remember the banned threads.
Sorry to burst people's bubbles, but a lot of the users who get a ton of attention when banned got their notoriety not form being stunning pillars of excellence in the community, but more often than not from being toxic.
Heck I sometimes wish moderation was a bit harsher, 8 infractions with a removal system is insanely generous. I'd love it if "being a jerk" was worth more strikes, there's nothing worse for a community than a user berating/insulting/demeaning other users.

Addition: I really wish there was something against the passive aggressive attitude that some users constantly resort to, it's basically dancing around the don't be a jerk rule.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Yep, that's the grey area. Admitting to smoking weed is no big deal in, say, Amsterdam, where that's totally legal. But it all gets a bit squidgy, because just because you say you were there doesn't mean you were, etc, etc. It's just easier for us to avoid all potential issues by having it be against the rules, period.

Aha, that's a triple tier joke there! My name, an adjective and a type of hash!
But yes, thank you for your time and for clearing all that up!

 

[madwarper]

I approached warning bar as something like health bar.
When you're down you get another chance after some while.

Metaphor? Ok, but after the 8th time they willingly jump in front of the Mod's bullets of wrath, or drink the poison of their own rudeness, they deserve to be permanently banned.

And, a tiger can't change its stripes. Even when the appeals team allows a banned poster to return, it won't be long till they offend again.
What you propose merely allows them further opportunity to be detrimental to the community as a whole.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

It's 8 strikes actually, not 10.

Really you don't just accidentally make 8 low-content posts. One or two before you understand the rules, maybe.

It's really not that hard to not insult people, if someone insults you, report them and let it go. If someone disagrees with you or even if someone has repulsive ideas on any subject, discuss things civilly or leave the discussion.

There's really only 1 rule: make sure your content is worthwhile.

Insults aren't, low content isn't, spam isn't, being a jerk isn't

Question, I've never faced Mod wrath, but I was wondering if it's possible to work off the strikes with good behavior etc? How long does it take, or is there no removing them.

I'm honestly starting to roll my eyes at threads like these and the remember the banned threads.
Sorry to burst people's bubbles, but a lot of the users who get a ton of attention when banned got their notoriety not form being stunning pillars of excellence in the community, but more often than not from being toxic.
Heck I sometimes wish moderation was a bit harsher, 8 infractions with a removal system is insanely generous. I'd love it if "being a jerk" was worth more strikes, there's nothing worse for a community than a user berating/insulting/demeaning other users.

Agreed, I've never had a problem with the moderation here, you've been here a bit longer then me and I see you have clean record.

[small]Also, Jack of All Trades was awesome.[/small]

 

[madwarper]

Question, I've never faced Mod wrath, but I was wondering if it's possible to work off the strikes with good behavior etc? How long does it take, or is there no removing them.

6 months, no wrath = 1 tick removed.
2 years, no wrath = clears all forum health

 

[astrav1]

I've been lurking these forums for quite some time now, and while I think it's generally a pretty cool place I can't help feel that the super strict moderation is a detriment to the site.

First off, the ten strike warning system. Though it has relaxed slightly since it's initial implementation, it remains to be a ticking time bomb over the heads of many frequent posters. Now I know that someone is going to refer to those polls that state that the majority of posters have no strikes against them; however, those polls have no indication of the posting habits of those that respond. Take me for example, I have no warnings, but I also have very few posts to my name. I also vote in every poll I see. So you can see how this throws the validity of the poll into question. I feel that the ten strike warning system is bound to take out most of the frequent posters eventually, or at least the more interesting ones because, really, everybody slips up now and again and depending on how much they post it may be more often than within *six months* of their last mistake. Six months is a really long time to lose one strike and two years to erase them all is completely absurd, most of the current posters haven?t even been here two years! A more reasonable time frame would be one or two months to get rid of one infraction and one year to erase them all. One last thing about the ten strike system, and the thing that burns me the most about it, is that it gives the same weight to every infraction. I can't stand to see someone get banned for a low-content post and yet it seems to happen quite frequently.

Next, for the most part it seems that when a regular user gets banned, it only detracts from the conversations that take place here on the Escapist. A lot of the frequent posters I've seen banned seem to have opinions that differ from the norm. I believe that they are more likely to get banned because they tend to be ganged up on, get frustrated, and therefore (understandably) resort to acting a bit more like a jerk than they usually would. Also, I believe that people are more likely to report people they disagree with rather than ones that they are in alignment with. This leads to a homogenization of opinion and I for one don't think it makes for interesting conversation when everybody stands around agreeing and patting each other on the back. Another thing people that get banned tend to have is passion. Passionate posters make more interesting posts that are usually reasonably well defended. Weeding these people out leads to those remaining in the forum to be wishy-washy posters who don't really take a firm stand on any topics.

The Escapist is a place to have interesting semi-intellectual discussions about a wide variety of topics. However, discussion is not always neat and agreeable and tends to get tempers up. To cut out this aspect is to neuter discussion itself. By all means ban those that solely intend to start trouble right from the start, but those that have proven themselves to be worthy contributors over time by making frequent well defended posts should be given some leniency when it comes to the permanent ban. I feel it really is the people who are a little bit controversial that forces people to defend and re-evaluate their positions and make for the most interesting conversations. Is the purpose of the ban not to improve the quality of these forums? I believe it is. I must then ask: Does banning someone with 10 minor infractions over the course of years really improve the Escapist?
Edit: actually it's eight strikes, not ten

You should have seen this place a little while ago. They were short of sicking the though police on everyone.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Question, I've never faced Mod wrath, but I was wondering if it's possible to work off the strikes with good behavior etc? How long does it take, or is there no removing them.

6 months, no wrath = 1 tick removed.
2 years, no wrath = clears all forum health

Ah thanks, was curious since I've yet to have any ticks on my meter.

 

[blackrave]

Question, I've never faced Mod wrath, but I was wondering if it's possible to work off the strikes with good behavior etc? How long does it take, or is there no removing them.

6 months of angelic behaviour (or simply meh behaviour- whatever suits you)

And, a tiger can't change its stripes. Even when the appeals team allows a banned poster to return, it won't be long till they offend again.
What you propose merely allows them further opportunity to be deferential to the community as a whole.

If we pick no-permaban-only-1y-ban scenario then it is 2 insults per year

And on rare occasions people DO change (since we aren't tigers )

 

[Berithil]

It's 8 strikes actually, not 10.

Really you don't just accidentally make 8 low-content posts. One or two before you understand the rules, maybe.

It's really not that hard to not insult people, if someone insults you, report them and let it go. If someone disagrees with you or even if someone has repulsive ideas on any subject, discuss things civilly or leave the discussion.

There's really only 1 rule: make sure your content is worthwhile.

Insults aren't, low content isn't, spam isn't, being a jerk isn't

Question, I've never faced Mod wrath, but I was wondering if it's possible to work off the strikes with good behavior etc? How long does it take, or is there no removing them.

If you wait 6 months, you get one bar removed. After two years you get your record wiped. That all depends on "good behavior", of course

Edit: And I was just ninja'd... twice