Poll: Is 40K serious?

[Reveras]

I like the 40K universe mostly because of some of their stories. Very entertaining stuff and some races have a nice touch to them: I personally like the Tau quite a bit.

 

[Togs]

I've always thought the universe didnt take itself seriously- for something that takes every trope and cliche and overeggs them to such a degree to work it has to be tongue in cheek.
Or so I thought, reading through some the newest codexes and fluffwork thats either gone or was never present, making the whole thing seem just stupid.

 

[bobknowsall]

It's a setting that can be viewed as over-the-top parody or a grim parable of a dark future. It all depends on who's writing it.

Variety's the spice of life, right?

 

[Waaghpowa]

People actually take it seriously?

 

[renegade7]

Not in entirety. The only races I really take seriously are the Necrons and Tyrannids. Everything else, Chaos and humans in particular, just seems so pointlessly over-the-top. The Necrons in particular are easier to take seriously because they are a lot more subtle, and that makes them quite a bit scarier.

 

[theonecookie]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale. Do your research, or shut up.

Let me qualify this by saying I have been a massive 40k fan for 11 years now. I have a sizeable Alpha Legion army and an in progress World Eaters army. Yesterday the stuff I ordered to finish my Goliath gang for Necromunda came in the mail. I love 40k.

But he's right about a lot of the logistics making no sense. You just have to turn off that part of your brain and accept it. For instance, the Death Korps of Krieg. They willingly sacrifice entire regiments as long as they win. They come from one planet. They can not sustain these tactics for long. But you just have to put that thought out of your mind and go with it.

Well the death korps make heavy use of cloning last I heard which makes sense seeing as there was only ten of them left after they nuked them self's

OT: honestly I think it depends because when you look back to the rogue trader days its was so full of 80's amazingness that it was a definite piss take but then they tried to do it seriously so it gets a bit confusing you only need to look at the gaunts ghosts novels and compare them with the Ciaphas Cain ones to see this and don't get me started on the eye of terror being crated because the eldar out did charlie sheen at doing coke

 

[Nomine88]

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

Interesting. First post on this forum and all you do is scolding over simple question.

Pretty loose interpretation of scolding, I would think. Not scolding, just offering advice. No use going around and stressing oneself out on how a game should be taken if you are not it's targeted audience in the first place, yeah? ^_-

 

[Togs]

At the risk of sounding like a Xenophobic git, I honestly think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that Americans don't really get British snarky sarcasm or satire. Warhammer 40K was cut from the same cloth as other satiric works of British geekdom in the 80s, such as Judge Dredd, and you guys over the Atlantic showed us how little you actually 'got' Judge Dredd when you made that awful Sylvester Stallone movie. Unfortunately, part of the problem is that recent writers such has Matt Ward (boo!) are also too dense to detect the satire, and insist on playing stuff dead straight. It doesn't change, however, that the core of Warhammer 40K is not, not, NOT the Grimdark seriousness its stereotyped as. Warhammer 40K is built out of a very British sense of black humour, and that dark-as-pitch comedy runs right the way through the universe.

Maybe, but you've got a thoroughbred brit here who is as confused as the OP- a childhood spent playing the game and thinking it one big hilarious joke has recently been called into question- the recent Space Marine game being of the reasons, along with the fluff in the 5th edition codexes.

 

[Littaly]

I wouldn't say there's a clear answer to the question (but then again, is there ever?). It's certainly very close to the edge of self parody, but I've never had any troubles taking it seriously. Then again I can totally see why people wouldn't.

... Hurray for vague answers ^^

 

[Jodah]

Well, in the actual lore those "purple beams" that the noise marines fire cause every organ and bone in your body to explode...sounds pretty serious to me.

 

[Versuvius]

On another note: Some regions of space are destitute with no working economy and some places, mostly religious or military centers are funded by a galaxy wide inflow of tax, tithes and donations.

It is possible that the economy is a false economy funded by the local governments who basically mete out arbitary amounts of resources and wealth (leaving them with vast amounts to pay direct to sources) to make the imperial citizens feel free and indipendant, but really arent. That bit is speculation.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Still, think of the logistics. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Krieg regiments. If they can throw away 10,000 and still win then the regiment must be larger than that. Consider that the planet would still need millions of people in order to run itself. Think of how many people this must be. And they only come from one planet.

Different example : how much does it COSTS to train one Space Marine ? Is it economically acceptable to mantain such relics of ancient chivalry if they die so easily ? WH40k tabletop is a little bit reasonable but video games, Space Hulk branch or this, ummmm, wonderful piece of art that is "Space Marine" movie suggests that Space Marines dies oh so easily.

How about you know, economy like on earth. Planet's don't get food and resources from somewhere else. They make it on those same freaking planets. Besides, so what if the economy is not explained. That's hardly as interesting as plots, schemes, wars, death and destruction etc.

Nope. On our planet's surface no enemy can just appear in the middle of your territory and devastate city or two. Distances can be easily crossed with (i guess) close to 100% chance of success (with the exception of Somalia piracy is practically nonexisten and our weather reports aren't that bad). History proves that countries can't sustain full scale modern war for long. And how about those worlds covered with one big factory complex from pole to pole ? Where does food grows, how siple people live there... No, i guess it isn't just possible to take experience from our good old mother Earth and say "it's exactly like this but simpler and on huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge scale.[/quote]

Besides, so what if the economy is not explained. That's hardly as interesting as plots, schemes, wars, death and destruction etc.

Sure. Every time i play game in WH40k setting, read the novel or something i don't care about that sh*t at all. However each time anyone tries to prove that it's a possible, reasonable vision... No. Just no.

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

Interesting. First post on this forum and all you do is scolding over simple question.

Pretty loose interpretation of scolding, I would think. Not scolding, just offering advice. No use going around and stressing oneself out on how a game should be taken if you are not it's targeted audience in the first place, yeah? ^_-

No point in answering unasked questions instead of just going with the flow i guess... ;p

 

[SniperMacFox]

To be honest, I can take this as seriously as I can take things like 300 and starship troopers. I grew up with 40K and it's always been about unstoppable badasses available in plastic or metal. In terms of game mythos, I think the 40K universe is up there in terms of scale, as it does try to sell itself as a massive space opera and to it's credit, some of the most fun books I've ever read are part of the rather impressive Black Library catalogue.

If I wanted to prove that gaming could become a defining genre in narrative then I would definitely not choose Warhammer in its many iterations, but if I wanted to set a bar for any narrative within video games, Warhammer would be it.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Here's the real appreciation from 40k... if you're playing guitar and you want to play loud. You turn your amp up to 10. Then you want to go one step further, so you turn it up to 11. Just for the shere joy of turning something up to 11. The 40k universe has always been, and will always be 11.

Look at god of war. Do people really get a kick out of slaughtering innocent civilians running from the bad guys for a few extra red or green globes? Why yes, yes they do. Do they enjoy the completely over the top visceral disembowlment of your bad guys as creative finishers? Indeed.

You go make a game where you fight with a few frail wizards and knights in armor swinging swords around. Could it be fun? Sure. OR... you could play where evil guys literally rip their sorcery from a realm filled with the physical manifestations of peoples deepest emotional desires while super powered walking tanks of men wield diamond tipped chainsaws carving through a population who's only crime was they valiently fought against people who sacrificed their souls to a god that treats entire civilizations like a monkey treats its fecese.

It's a universe that has something for everyone. A race that literaly grows stronger the more it fights. A race that will gladly sacrifice a billion innocent lives to save just 1 of theirs. An organization that is so anal if a single person commits to the darker powers the planet and all those that reside on it will be utterly annihilated. Stories involving the pathetic futility of fighting against one's very nature and the consequences beyond their control.

Take what you want from it, be it seriousness or comedy; and just turn it up a notch. Like discussions of all the rediculous things you could do with the money you win from the lottery; go nuts, nothing is stopping you.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Nope. It may be filled with misery, but that doesn't make it anymore more believable or realistic than a teenage emo who thinks his parents don't love him enough.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

Yeah, its not serious. However, economy does happen in the universe. The only problem is how ass backwards it is.

There is the Administratum, which is made up of the pencil pushers of the Imperium. It is a giant organization that runs horribly, sometimes orders take years to get from place to place. Leads to planets getting forgotten during rounding errors.

There are different planets that suit different needs. Forgeworlds are giant factory planets chosen specifically for exploitation of their resources.

Interplanetary shipping is seen, but it is very limited due to the dangers of the Warp for travel. Because of this, most systems are self sufficient. A hive world will have several dedicated agri-worlds to feed its population, while the agri-worlds are usually only populated with workers and not locals, meaning that they have less consumption needs. Forgeworlds supply the various materials needed to build and maintain the infrastructure of a system.

When cross sector trade is required, the Imperium makes use of Rogue Traders, independent starships that truck goods across the Warp.

It isn't a very plausible system, but it is there.

 

[Versuvius]

Still, think of the logistics. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Krieg regiments. If they can throw away 10,000 and still win then the regiment must be larger than that. Consider that the planet would still need millions of people in order to run itself. Think of how many people this must be. And they only come from one planet.

Different example : how much does it COSTS to train one Space Marine ? Is it economically acceptable to mantain such relics of ancient chivalry if they die so easily ? WH40k tabletop is a little bit reasonable but video games, Space Hulk branch or this, ummmm, wonderful piece of art that is "Space Marine" movie suggests that Space Marines dies oh so easily.

How about you know, economy like on earth. Planet's don't get food and resources from somewhere else. They make it on those same freaking planets. Besides, so what if the economy is not explained. That's hardly as interesting as plots, schemes, wars, death and destruction etc.

Nope. On our planet's surface no enemy can just appear in the middle of your territory and devastate city or two. Distances can be easily crossed with (i guess) close to 100% chance of success (with the exception of Somalia piracy is practically nonexisten and our weather reports aren't that bad). History proves that countries can't sustain full scale modern war for long. And how about those worlds covered with one big factory complex from pole to pole ? Where does food grows, how siple people live there... No, i guess it isn't just possible to take experience from our good old mother Earth and say "it's exactly like this but simpler and on huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge scale.

Besides, so what if the economy is not explained. That's hardly as interesting as plots, schemes, wars, death and destruction etc.

Sure. Every time i play game in WH40k setting, read the novel or something i don't care about that sh*t at all. However each time anyone tries to prove that it's a possible, reasonable vision... No. Just no. [/quote]

Economically viable doesnt matter when you have a billion planets to plunder for resources, use to house your breeding machines or turn into giant farms. Stars doing nothing but sitting there and ripe for the harvesting of fuel (They harvest the ionised hydrogen for fuel cells, dont ask how, its future tech, deal with that bit). Underlay to all this is jobs of the average people on planets, shopkeeps and suppliers on the planet who buy from off planet for a universal currency. Like with the Euro but bigger (and not failing). I'm not trying to convince you the economy is exactly like the one on earth, but give it a bit of handwave it does work on the surface. A free market exists, with layers of taxes for various people up the chain. 30,000 years of this going on. Anyway. Argument time over, red dwarf time begin.

http://www.darkreign40k.com/drjoomla/index.php/background/general-background/674-the-imperial-economy this too.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale. Do your research, or shut up.

Let me qualify this by saying I have been a massive 40k fan for 11 years now. I have a sizeable Alpha Legion army and an in progress World Eaters army. Yesterday the stuff I ordered to finish my Goliath gang for Necromunda came in the mail. I love 40k.

But he's right about a lot of the logistics making no sense. You just have to turn off that part of your brain and accept it. For instance, the Death Korps of Krieg. They willingly sacrifice entire regiments as long as they win. They come from one planet. They can not sustain these tactics for long. But you just have to put that thought out of your mind and go with it.

Actually Krieg can sustain these actions. They are all clones. The Vitae Womb birthing technique that they use pretty much allows for Krieg women to give birth to several biologically identical children at a time. They are sub humans, who reproduce at a swift rate.

 

[Puddleknock]

Is 40k serious? In a word...no. In a few more words....of course its not, look at it.

The whole thing is over the top and that is by design. Long may the mayhem continue.

 

[ShakyFt Slasher]

Hello there escapist!

I've been curious lately as to how many people who are familiar with the Warhammer 40K universe can take it seriously and get into the setting and so forth. I've found it immensely goofy and over the top for the longest time and my recent purchase of Dawn of War 2 + expansions did not help matters in the slightest. (Tubby bloke encouraging to drink puss coupled with 'Noise Marines' shooting purple rays and making lots of loud noises is not scary or depressing to me)

Oh and for those of you who have yet to be introduced to the Warhammer 40K universe this ought to be a good start:

I am curious as to whether you thought out what you posted or not. Not to seem rude, as I mean that in an honest way. Do we (people who enjoy an over the top game series for a hobby/entertainment) take the game SERIOUSLY? No. No one takes Warhammer 40k seriously. No one SHOULD take it seriously. It's a GAME. Do you take Call of Duty or Halo 'seriously'? If you do, you should probably review your world values. There are plenty of serious things going on in the world, games don't need to be on the list of things taken 'seriously' (In the way that you mean. I am not talking about the whole 'Games are Art' thing and what not. That's serious, but not THIS kind of serious)

Now, what Warhammer does do, and what people should take it as, is over the top fun. Call of Duty and Battlefield profess to being realistic (At least, Battlefield does openly) but they are not realistic at all. Why? Because people don't want realistic shooters. It's just not as fun, anyone who regularly plays shooters knows that. Occasionally realism is fun for a change, but generally you do not want to always play a realistic shooter. Warhammer is just upfront and honest about what it delivers - hilarious, over the top hyper-violent gore soaked FUN.

I do not want to get on a shooter and shoot terrorists. That is boring. I want to get on a shooter and watch entire planets burn, shoot orcs that spew out gallons of blood from paper-scratches, and generally see things that can only happen otherwise in imagination-land.


Essentially, my advice is to anyone who can't "get" Warhammer, to isolate the thing you are having trouble with - say, ask yourself "Why are Space Marines so lulzy big with rediculous armor?". Now take that question, and rephrase it this way - "Wouldn't it be funny if. . .There were super-serious-sam-Space-Marines that wore half a tank worth of armor into battle modelled after Roman-Catholic monk-orders (Who are generally, historically non-violent)?

Or, "Why do orcs sound so stupid?", rephrase too "Wouldn't it be funny if there was an entire race of greenskinned orks who had the WORST British accent imaginable?"

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

/rantoff

This is a great point and I agree 100%. It's kind of like the Gears of War series. The setting is extremely dark and horrible but one liners abound in the single player and if you have played the Gears 3 MP you know how ridiculously silly that can get.