Poll: Is 40K serious?

[Da Orky Man]

Maybe, but you've got a thoroughbred brit here who is as confused as the OP- a childhood spent playing the game and thinking it one big hilarious joke has recently been called into question- the recent Space Marine game being of the reasons, along with the fluff in the 5th edition codexes.

Actually, Star Wars and Star trek kind of exemplify what I was talking about in regards to Americans and Brits. Trek and Wars are both sci-fi series that are fundamentally American, and as a result they're both very earnest and serious. They both involve large-scale warfare, ridiculous sci-fi mumbo-jumbo, etc, but everything is played absolutely dead straight. Mass Effect is another one, even though it's more Canadian than American. The fundamental concept of millenium-old machines coming from another galaxy to harvest and wipe out sentient life is fundamentally a bit stupid, but Bioware play it absolutely straight.

Games Workshop, being a fundamentally British company, play it differently. They've taken fundamental ideas of Sci-Fi, and played them for the really dark laughs. Human's extending a galactic wide Empire? It's going to be the most horrible, repressive Empire imaginable. Faster-than-light hyperspace travel? It's going to involve travelling into a warp-realm full of unimaginable horros and nastiness. Relations with other alien species? Humanity's own xenophobic nature will ensure that we never so much as think about living long and prospering with another alien race. Warhammer 40K in a way deconstructs the sci-fi presented in things like Star Wars, and presents them in a more pessimsitic yet-still-humurous fashion. Even hacks like Matt Ward can't get rid of that fundamental parody at the heart of the series.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. It's interesting to see the comparison of popular American and British sci-fi. If you look again, both Star Wars and Star Trek have happy, bright undertones about thow everything is better in the future. The Federation is essentially a paradise for it's citizens, and Star Wars, at least the movies, has the good guys winning through friendship and similar.
Then 40k comes along, and shows a much more depressing future, where humans hate everything.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Doesn't sound terribly interesting, does it? Needs are met, but it all exists to keep the wars going. And if our unfortunate scribe above happened to die on his way to work the next day, no one would mourn him. He'd be immediately replaced, and the big machine would keep on turning.

Sorry, can't agreee with that suggestion. It's your WH40k and if you're happy with it then by all means, have fun.

As for me, i can't accept this vision. It may be ok for some mad country hidden behind steel curtain, but not for 40 000 years old empire spanning over distances measured in thousands of lightyears. Half of that Imperium shouldn't neither know about some "crusade" taking place God-Emperor knows where, nor really care. "Really... Orks ? Living, animated corpses ? There are no such things. It's superstition".

 

[MadMechanic]

Warhammer 40 is meant to be satire
snip for space

Give this man an internet. (Although I'm not sure about the American argument)

You can see this from some of the names given to characters.
Inquisitor-Inspector Obi-Wan Watson Cleaseua Holmes from RT days.

Or the Ork Gazzgul Thrakka (spelling?) - an Ork warlord who brutally attacked industrial/factory planets.
Full name: Gazzgull Mag Urk Thrakka. The 'Iron Ork'.
Anyone who can't see this is a jab at Maggie Thatcher has something wrong with them. Especially given the time this character was written into the background.

Whilst recently the books have become more serious and GrimDark (bad Mat Ward, bad!) - not all of them have. Forge World's writing team still gets it. In one of the background stories for a loyalist marine chapter the 'good guys' of the Imperium crush an 'evil' and 'misguided' democracy.

 

[Denamic]

Warhammer is over the top on purpose.
Take it seriously?
Don't be so serious.

 

[Liquid Paradox]

if the stories were novels instead of handbooks for the table top games

There are all kinds of 40k novels. Seriously, there's as many Warhammer 40k novels as there are Forgotten Realms novels.

On topic:

The economy is broken. This is nothing new... There are literally millions of imperial worlds in the galaxy, and the powers that be don't really give a shit about most of them. Throne Gelt is the standard currency for the layman, where Nobles and Rogue Traders and other more prominent figures simply demand what they want, and if they are influential enough, they get it. The main arm of the economy is a pseudo-communist world tithe, where every world has it's own specific tithe, depending on what the world itself has to offer. An aggri world provides food, a forge world provides weapons or whatever it can produce. A world with massive, sprawling hive cities usually have a human tithe. Like I said, it's a fundamentally flawed system, but there is an economy, and it's brokenness adds to the setting.

 

[Trololo Punk]

Does it need to be taken seriously? Is it supposed to be taken seriously? Maybe, but i don't, and still really enjoy what I have experienced from the 40K Universe.

 

[AlphonseRomano]

I like it and all but here's the thing for me, it seems like they went a bit too far with a lot of the mythos and as a result the whole setting feels a touch cartoony. But that's probably just me.

 

[Korolev]

I can't take it seriously, because frankly, it takes itself too seriously and incorporates mystical elements. I know that it is an off-shoot from the original Warhammer, and as a result, it has to have semi-mystical elements, but it was when they introduce the immortal, thousands of years old psychic emperor (who apparently was Jesus in a past age) that I couldn't stomach it anymore. I'm a fan or hard-sci-fi. Warhammer isn't hard-sci-fi.

It has some interesting ideas. I do like the grim atmosphere. But it's too unbelievable. Chaos Gods? I know they say "they're from another dimension", but again, it's too fantasy-esque for me. I've never really liked Fantasy.

Warhammer 40K has its fans, and they shouldn't feel ashamed of their love for their fiction. Again, they have a few interesting ideas, and it suits the table-top game very well. It's just not for me. It's too over-the-top and brawny. Now, I can deal with over-the-top and ultra-brawny stuff, but only in an ironic way, like with Gears of War. Warhammer asks me to take it seriously, and it takes itself WAAAAAAY too seriously for me to enjoy it. Rather than just being another fun space-marine filled war-fest, it's actually trying to be "deep" and "storied", and while it should be applauded for trying its best.... well, the results speak for themselves.

Look, it's alright. I don't hate it. But seriously, I want you to think and remember this: In 10 or 20 years, look back at Warhammer 40K. Chances are you'll know what I'm talking about when I say it's not especially "deep" or "meaningful". Remember that.

 

[Stoneface]

[quote="MadMechanic" post="9.318116.12961268"

Whilst recently the books have become more serious and GrimDark (bad Mat Ward, bad!) - not all of them have. Forge World's writing team still gets it. In one of the background stories for a loyalist marine chapter the 'good guys' of the Imperium crush an 'evil' and 'misguided' democracy.[/quote]

What are you on about? Forgeworld is ridiculously dark, take the 'Siege of Vraks' book for example. That was not only pointlessly boringly grim, but it went on for like 600 pages. And you'r example at the end, whilst an amusing concept, is I bet swamped by a 300 page discription of people being disembowelled.

Besides (and this is in response to other posts) saying that 40k novels cover both sides of the spectrum, both the wacky and the dark, isn't a compliment, it just means that the GW have so many different writers of different competency levels working for them that they can no longer keep the universe consistent in any way shape or form. I say this as someone who enjoys playing the board game wit ha few friends, but realises the back story is hopelessly soiled.

 

[Starke]

There is a very deliberate sense of humor to the entire thing. Granted, some of the humor requires some pretty specific pop-culture or historical knowledge, but the setting, from the term "grimdark" to the over the top approach to everything, to the ludicrous proportions of some of the minis is filled with one kind of parody or another.

 

[Starke]

Warhammer is over the top on purpose.
Take it seriously?
Don't be so serious.

Take it seriously, or play it straight?

Honestly, I've no problem with people playing it straight, which can be pretty funny it their own right, but it is a fine line.

 

[roostuf]

do i take wh4ok seriously? No. its a game always has and always will be no matter what type, either on tabletop or pc. The grimark and "seriousness" is there to flesh out the story, the characters, the universe in which it is set.

I love the game and its grimly wacky lore, especially the space-marines.

 

[CrawlingPastaHellion]

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Doesn't mean it can't be fun though.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Doesn't sound terribly interesting, does it? Needs are met, but it all exists to keep the wars going. And if our unfortunate scribe above happened to die on his way to work the next day, no one would mourn him. He'd be immediately replaced, and the big machine would keep on turning.

Sorry, can't agreee with that suggestion. It's your WH40k and if you're happy with it then by all means, have fun.

As for me, i can't accept this vision. It may be ok for some mad country hidden behind steel curtain, but not for 40 000 years old empire spanning over distances measured in thousands of lightyears. Half of that Imperium shouldn't neither know about some "crusade" taking place God-Emperor knows where, nor really care. "Really... Orks ? Living, animated corpses ? There are no such things. It's superstition".

Most Imperial citizens don't know that there is a war going on. Only when the Administratum sends the Tithe officers to their planet to levy every fit man into active service. Much of the Imperium is ignorant of the xenos species out there trying to kill them, and the only time they ever see an alien is when said alien is chopping them to bits.

If you are interested in seeing the office job workers of the Imperium, look up the short story "A Good Man" by Sandy Mitchell. It is in the Sabbat Worlds Anthology book, and instead of focusing on the frontline combat, it focuses on the follow up procedures of getting a planet back on track after the war moved on.

 

[Jared Domenico]

I got into Warhammer 40,000 well long after its parodic roots were eclipsed by its current state of 'grimdark seriousness,' and while it is imaginable that I would hold a bias towards its current iteration, I actually prefer 40K as it is now: a science fiction universe based on the worst case scenario nearly always being the only scenario.

Its a future where everything that could go wrong did, and in the worst way possible.

It is a universe where humanity stepped out from earth and found a galaxy hostile to its existence. It is a universe where humankind only just pulled itself from the brink of extinction and is trying desperately to maintain the only viable means of defense against hostile forces from within, without, and beyond.

I, quite frankly, find that very compelling.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Not as much good versus evil, as "assholes" versus "every other asshole"

 

[CrawlingPastaHellion]

...I actually prefer 40K as it is now: a science fiction universe based on the worst case scenario nearly always being the only scenario...

Tell me, how is WH40k a sci-fi? Only because it's set into the future? It's about as sci-fi as "Star Wars".

I find the whole ordeal of good versus evil extremely ridiculous. The fact that it's set 38k years into the future makes it even more ridiculous.

Not as much good versus evil, as "assholes" versus "every other asshole"

Well, that actually makes it even more ridiculous. ^_^

 

[Dr Snakeman]

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

Interesting. First post on this forum and all you do is scolding over simple question.

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale.

Nope, it isn't economy.

Actually it looks a lot like an overblown version of the Soviet economy during the early years of the USSR. Each area has dedicated labour to do and its all controlled by a central hub. It's not a particularly good system but it is an economy.

Its the foundations for economy. The aggri worlds trade products for the weapons, or people, people work and aquire moneys. I suppose you will ask me where it all started, well, about 30,000 years ago they implimented trading for universal credits for the layman and the big corps and houses pay in large amounts of resources, or give resources for credits. Now stop being silly, trading exists like it developped on earth on a much grander scale, and bank accounts. They exist too.

Well, OP, you've got your answer. Almost no one takes WH40K seriously because of how crazy it is. Except this guy. For him, even minutia like the economic system of a fictional 'eternal-war-universe' is serious business. A fun game with miniatures, set in an absurdly dark world? Please. This shit's a religion, and if you don't think so, then you just need to shut up.

 

[Nouw]

Both yes and no. At certain times, it is meant to be taken seriously like in some of the novels. The Horus Heresy have some very, very sad stories which I don't think were written for laughs. And at other times, it's so over-the-top crazy that you can't do anything else other than laugh. As other people said, it was a satire.

 

[ccggenius12]

As for me, i can't accept this vision. It may be ok for some mad country hidden behind steel curtain, but not for 40 000 years old empire spanning over distances measured in thousands of lightyears. Half of that Imperium shouldn't neither know about some "crusade" taking place God-Emperor knows where, nor really care. "Really... Orks ? Living, animated corpses ? There are no such things. It's superstition".

And said God Emperor immediately has you put to death as one of the thousand he needs daily to prolong his life for even considering such a notion.
Orks gots da best ekonomy. If ya needs some gitz, ya knocks out some teef, don't matter whose, and ya goes and buys your stuff.
Also, ork kulture is its own self-sustaining biomass. They grow from spores, after said spores have first created self sustaining food sources, and slave labor. Said economy favors no one, as teeth deteriorate over time, making hoarding a pointless endeavor, as well as ork biology making it impossible for an ork to be completely destitute.

Personally, I find the lore to be far more interesting when you consider it to be Doctor Who's contrarian half brother. I might be off base, but I feel like the 2 mythos share a similar audience. (I've been getting that a lot lately, including other stuff like MLP and anime. I just generally get the feeling that people who enjoy said things would also enjoy Doctor Who greatly.)