Poll: Is Cracker a derogatory term? And can one be racist against white people?

Thaluikhain

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KissingSunlight said:
Really? No white person ever been harassed by the cops. I know I had.
You omitted "because of their race" there.

KissingSunlight said:
No minority can arrange to be in the company of their own race? That's BS! I see people of all races hanging out with people of their own race.
You omitted "most of the time" there.

KissingSunlight said:
Even if you checked off every category that she list in the end of her blog, that doesn't mean you have won the lottery.
Yes, which is probably why she didn't say it does.

Privilege does not guarantee you a good life, it gives you advantages over people who don't have it.

This gets brought up in more or less every discussion about privilege ever, because people opposed to the idea keep misrepresenting it.
 

Morti

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Solaire of Astora said:
Morti said:
Ehh, I'm not sure if I really fully agree with that conclusion. And it's not really what the OP is asking, though I guess wording that question in such a way is a rather big oversimplification of the complex issue of racial relations. It's obviously possible to be racist against any race, but there are a lot of 'degrees' that people assign to these issues. An idea I'm not always fully comfortable with either. In what way do you think '******' promotes negative stereotypes, though? I don't think that that's the issue with the word; just its association with the prolonged period of slavery of black people in the United States.
I was probably a bit too succinct, that may not have been the right phrasing. But this highlights the biggest issue with tackling modern racism (and, indeed, the other 'ism); there is no single, "big ticket" item to rally everyone behind now. Baning segregation, done. Property rights, done. Voting rights, done. Baning slavery, done. What is still left is cleaning up all the crap left behind after those.

On it's own, calling someone "n*" is not really a big deal, but the problem is is it that it is not just occuring on its own, it's occuring at the same time as a multitude of other things that don't really matter so much on their own (lower inheritance, worse schools, "police issues", lack of role models in media, abundance of bad roles in media, workplace discrimination, etc), it's a death by a thousand cuts scenario.

Contrast with calling a white person a cracker, where it is a problem, but it is just occuring on its own. They will be able to go home, turn on the tv and see plenty of reports white CEOs, actors, plots about how awesome they are, news stories about how the "thugs" are rioting again whilst there children come home from a nice school whilst safe in the knowledge that if they get fired, it was probably due to something they need, not just because their new manager was looking for the flimsiest excuse to get rid of them.
 

KissingSunlight

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thaluikhain said:
KissingSunlight said:
Really? No white person ever been harassed by the cops. I know I had.
You omitted "because of their race" there.

KissingSunlight said:
No minority can arrange to be in the company of their own race? That's BS! I see people of all races hanging out with people of their own race.
You omitted "most of the time" there.

KissingSunlight said:
Even if you checked off every category that she list in the end of her blog, that doesn't mean you have won the lottery.
Yes, which is probably why she didn't say it does.

Privilege does not guarantee you a good life, it gives you advantages over people who don't have it.

This gets brought up in more or less every discussion about privilege ever, because people opposed to the idea keep misrepresenting it.
Yes, I have been stopped by the police, because of my race. I live in a predominately minority neighborhood. Police proudly proclaim to a local newspaper that they will pull over any white person in any minority neighborhoods, because they suspect them of dealing or buying drugs.

"Most of the time"? Can you prove it's really that hard for minorities to call up a few people of their own race and ask, "Do you wanna hangout?"

Here is the quote from her blog:
As you can see, belonging to one or more category of privilege, especially being a straight, white, middle-class, able-bodied male, can be like winning a lottery you didn't even know you were playing.
I want to do a thought experiment with you and everyone else who thinks that privilege is genetics. There are 2 people. One person can check off 5 of the 6 categories (I am excluding "class") that this blogger consider to be privilege: Citizenship, Sexual Orientation, Sex, Ability, and Gender Identity. However, this person is living in poverty. He has a part-time job at minimum wage. He is struggling to make ends meet. The other person can not claim privilege in any of the 5 categories. Yet, this person is a millionaire. She doesn't need a job and have no trouble paying the bills. Who should be considered privileged?
 

Skatologist

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BreakfastMan said:
I suppose it is, as it is one of a whole two derogatory terms for white people in English (the other being honky). But I highly doubt any white people are actually offended by it. Somebody already posted the Louis CK clip, so I will just echo the sentiments found there about the offensiveness of those terms.

As for being racist against white people... Yes, but it almost never happens in the US (there are only a few select areas where one could run into this, i.e. Hawaii) and only happens in Europe against very specific sub-groups of people (and even that is not consistent throughout the continent), to my understanding.
Pretty close to my views on the matter. It and honky aren't the only negative der. terms for white people in English though: http://www.rsdb.org/race/whites
Morti said:
So let it snip
Agree very much with this sentiment too, although I would say the next hurdle of the black community would be a major reform to the criminal justice system and long standing practices that have been detrimental to blacks.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Yes it's racist.
Yes you can be racist to white people.
No I'm not offended by it, because honestly that's a pretty dumb slur. I like crackers.
If you go out of your way to treat people differently based on the colour of their skin, you're a fuckwit hands down. Racism is an intensely stupid thing, one rooted in ignorance, willful or otherwise.

So to reiterate, if someone were to say the things "socialist dad" said to me, my response would be "I'm not offended, but you most certainly are a fuckwit".
 

Sleepy Sol

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Morti said:
I was probably a bit too succinct, that may not have been the right phrasing. But this highlights the biggest issue with tackling modern racism (and, indeed, the other 'ism); there is no single, "big ticket" item to rally everyone behind now. Baning segregation, done. Property rights, done. Voting rights, done. Baning slavery, done. What is still left is cleaning up all the crap left behind after those.

On it's own, calling someone "n*" is not really a big deal, but the problem is is it that it is not just occuring on its own, it's occuring at the same time as a multitude of other things that don't really matter so much on their own (lower inheritance, worse schools, "police issues", lack of role models in media, abundance of bad roles in media, workplace discrimination, etc), it's a death by a thousand cuts scenario.

Contrast with calling a white person a cracker, where it is a problem, but it is just occuring on its own. They will be able to go home, turn on the tv and see plenty of reports white CEOs, actors, plots about how awesome they are, news stories about how the "thugs" are rioting again whilst there children come home from a nice school whilst safe in the knowledge that if they get fired, it was probably due to something they need, not just because their new manager was looking for the flimsiest excuse to get rid of them.
I'm inclined to think that someone's racist grandpa calling black people niggers doesn't really tangibly add to any problems black people face in America. Pretty sure if people catch wind of you using the word seriously now that you're going to face some pretty major consequences in a number of ways. Whether it's through being reprimanded at your job/losing it in all likelihood, or facing massive flak from your personal acquaintances.

Which isn't to say racism is dead by any means, because you don't need a word to exhibit it. I agree with you that blacks are discriminated against in many ways in many places across America, and with many of the points you listed on what problems they face. I just don't think using the word ****** contributes to that system in any meaningful way anymore. To be simple, I think it's one of the racial issues you feel are "done" and over with as far as a real detriment to black citizens in the United States.

Racism just evolved to be more mild and "family-friendly." Though I'd wish it would be gone permanently.
 

Dizchu

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I don't think the terms "cracker" or "honkey" are racist in the same way "******", "kike" or "wetback" are (because it was used to attack those in authority, if I'm not mistaken). Actually, I think they're hilarious slurs, it's fun to take humorous jabs at white people. What I think crosses the line between fun and inappropriate is when people act upon white stereotypes (the same with any other stereotypes).

It's okay to poke fun at so-called "ebonic" language or at certain elements of what's considered "black" or "Asian" culture, even the social justice crowd on the internet like appropriating such things. But when you assume things about actual people because of those stereotypes, that crosses the line for me. The "angry white boys are school shooters in the making" stereotype is hilarious, but when you assume "oh wow white male teenagers are super dangerous and deserve to be the scapegoat for all of our social ills"... ehh... no?

Same goes for black youths. "Gangsta" culture can be entertaining when there is self-awareness involved. I love me some NWA and Snoop Dogg, they're irreverent and play up stereotypes for entertainment value. However, once you assume that a black male in a hoodie is a thug by default, you can fuck right off.
 

Alleged_Alec

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Morti said:
Simply put, I, and many others, particuarly those on the recieving end, do not see any value in leaving "racism" as just "racial discrimination" as it masks the very real imbalance in who feels that discrimination the most. Now, in day to day language, maybe that doesn't matter so much, but when actively discussing these issues, it is important to make clear that there is a pre-existing imbalance.
Why? We have a special term for that already: institutionalized racism. Why muddled up discussions and move the goal posts by reimagining the word racist to be something more to your liking?


Calling a white person a "cracker" is not racist because all that happens is their feelings get hurt (if that).
Oh please. As though anything worse will happen when a black guy is called a ******.

KissingSunlight said:
I want to do a thought experiment with you and everyone else who thinks that privilege is genetics. There are 2 people. One person can check off 5 of the 6 categories (I am excluding "class") that this blogger consider to be privilege: Citizenship, Sexual Orientation, Sex, Ability, and Gender Identity. However, this person is living in poverty. He has a part-time job at minimum wage. He is struggling to make ends meet. The other person can not claim privilege in any of the 5 categories. Yet, this person is a millionaire. She doesn't need a job and have no trouble paying the bills. Who should be considered privileged?
Yeah. People seem to forget that on the privileged scale, gender, sexual orientation etc etc are ounce weights, while money is a stone weight.
 

irishda

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Politrukk said:
Personally I think racism can be exacted upon anyone, that includes white people, heck the exclusion of white people from racism is in and of itself racist to me.

And personally I've only ever come across the term "cracker" when looking at salty stuff or when a black person was trying to be demeaning to a white one even if they had every right to be hostile in the situation.


So escapist what is your opinion on this?
You can be racist towards white people. But that's not exactly the issue. The issue is the prevalence and effect of that racism. White people have far greater safe spaces than other minorities, and are overwhelmingly the leaders of American and European society, for the most part.

To that end there is no racial problem against white people that will not be solved promptly, that is assuming there even IS a problem to begin with. If white people are in a rough neighborhood, and are discriminated because of their skin color, there are more than enough areas they can go without facing that discrimination. Even if the unthinkable were to happen and they were to be assaulted or even murdered because of the color of their skin, rest assured that every effort would be made to find and arrest the perpetrators, as has been proven time and again when white people are the victims of black criminals.

Compare that to the racism others face; racism wherein people argue whether or not this person of color was justifiably killed despite being proven beyond a doubt to be unarmed, or to already be restrained and neutralized. That's why this is and continues to be a bullshit question every time I hear it, and will likely continue to hear it from white people who just don't get it. Someone might have been mean to you once because of the color of your skin, maybe even angry at you, but that sure as fuck doesn't mean you've been the victim of racism.
 

Smooth Operator

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Odd I always heard it as a reference to "crack heads", quite the range that one gets.
And really on the subject of "racist slurs" look far an wide enough you will find every word we have means something bad in some language and someone is going to be pissy at you. So the best solution is to avoid pissy people.
 

Alleged_Alec

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irishda said:
Politrukk said:
Personally I think racism can be exacted upon anyone, that includes white people, heck the exclusion of white people from racism is in and of itself racist to me.

And personally I've only ever come across the term "cracker" when looking at salty stuff or when a black person was trying to be demeaning to a white one even if they had every right to be hostile in the situation.


So escapist what is your opinion on this?
You can be racist towards white people. But that's not exactly the issue. The issue is the prevalence and effect of that racism. White people have far greater safe spaces than other minorities, and are overwhelmingly the leaders of American and European society, for the most part.
Yes, but completely irrelevant. Racism towards someone isn't worse because his/her race is the target of it more or less often. Also: define safe spaces.

To that end there is no racial problem against white people that will not be solved promptly, that is assuming there even IS a problem to begin with. If white people are in a rough neighborhood, and are discriminated because of their skin color, there are more than enough areas they can go without facing that discrimination.
Ah, yes. Every white person has the ability to move at the drop of a hat.

Even if the unthinkable were to happen and they were to be assaulted or even murdered because of the color of their skin, rest assured that every effort would be made to find and arrest the perpetrators, as has been proven time and again when white people are the victims of black criminals.
Source?


Compare that to the racism others face; racism wherein people argue whether or not this person of color was justifiably killed despite being proven beyond a doubt to be unarmed, or to already be restrained and neutralized.
Which is a discussion which should probably be had no matter what race the victim is.

That's why this is and continues to be a bullshit question every time I hear it, and will likely continue to hear it from white people who just don't get it. Someone might have been mean to you once because of the color of your skin, maybe even angry at you, but that sure as fuck doesn't mean you've been the victim of racism.
Again: don't move the goal posts. Racism is a very simple yes or no thing: did or did someone not unfairly treat you because of your race?

I mean, we all (or at least all reasonable people) agree that on the institutionalized racism front, us whites have it good in most countries. However, it's still a dick move to say shit like "nuh-uh, not racism" to the parents of the kid who killed himself because he was bullied for being white.
 

Thaluikhain

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KissingSunlight said:
Yes, I have been stopped by the police, because of my race. I live in a predominately minority neighborhood. Police proudly proclaim to a local newspaper that they will pull over any white person in any minority neighborhoods, because they suspect them of dealing or buying drugs.
Really? Huh, not heard that...where do you live?

KissingSunlight said:
"Most of the time"? Can you prove it's really that hard for minorities to call up a few people of their own race and ask, "Do you wanna hangout?"
No, but they clearly aren't generally going to spend most of their time doing that, which is what I understood that to mean.

KissingSunlight said:
Here is the quote from her blog:
As you can see, belonging to one or more category of privilege, especially being a straight, white, middle-class, able-bodied male, can be like winning a lottery you didn't even know you were playing.
Ah, ok, must have missed that part.

KissingSunlight said:
I want to do a thought experiment with you and everyone else who thinks that privilege is genetics.
I never said it was. Privilege is about how groups of people are viewed by society. Now, sure, genetics plays a part, but only because society happens to view various races differently for various reasons.

KissingSunlight said:
There are 2 people. One person can check off 5 of the 6 categories (I am excluding "class") that this blogger consider to be privilege: Citizenship, Sexual Orientation, Sex, Ability, and Gender Identity. However, this person is living in poverty. He has a part-time job at minimum wage. He is struggling to make ends meet. The other person can not claim privilege in any of the 5 categories. Yet, this person is a millionaire. She doesn't need a job and have no trouble paying the bills. Who should be considered privileged?
Anyone with a privilege is privileged. You might narrow that down to anyone with a privilege relevant in context.

The vast majority of people have some privileges, but not others. They are privileged, but privileges only apply in certain contexts.
 

Alleged_Alec

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thaluikhain said:
Anyone with a privilege is privileged. You might narrow that down to anyone with a privilege relevant in context.

The vast majority of people have some privileges, but not others. They are privileged, but privileges only apply in certain contexts.
Group privilege vs individual privilege.
 

Thaluikhain

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Alleged_Alec said:
thaluikhain said:
Anyone with a privilege is privileged. You might narrow that down to anyone with a privilege relevant in context.

The vast majority of people have some privileges, but not others. They are privileged, but privileges only apply in certain contexts.
Group privilege vs individual privilege.
Er...I'm not sure what you mean here.
 

solemnwar

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"Cracker" does not refer to the cracking of a whip. That's a folk etymology. "Cracker" is basically a ye olde times version of "white trash".

Southern U.S. derogatory term for "poor, white trash" (1766), probably an agent noun from crack (v.) in the sense "to boast" (as in not what it's cracked up to be). Compare Latin crepare "to rattle, crack, creak," with a secondary figurative sense of "boast of, prattle, make ado about."
I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas and Georgia, who often change their places of abode. [1766, G. Cochrane]
But DARE compares corn-cracker "poor white farmer" (1835, U.S. Midwest colloquial). Especially of Georgians by 1808, though often extended to residents of northern Florida. Another name in mid-19c. use was sand-hiller "poor white in Georgia or South Carolina."
Not very essentially different is the condition of a class of people living in the pine-barrens nearest the coast [of South Carolina], as described to me by a rice-planter. They seldom have any meat, he said, except they steal hogs, which belong to the planters, or their negroes, and their chief diet is rice and milk. "They are small, gaunt, and cadaverous, and their skin is just the color of the sand-hills they live on. They are quite incapable of applying themselves steadily to any labor, and their habits are very much like those of the old Indians." [Frederick Law Olmsted, "A Journey in the Seaboard Slave States," 1856]


In regards to the thread topic... not really. It has no power or weight behind it. There's no systemic oppression and centuries of dehumanisation behind it. If someone calls me a "cracker" (which is fairly unlikely as I live in Canada) I'm not going to be reminded of that history, and of the very real racism and prejudice that actively inhibits my life. Because there isn't any, as I am a whitey white person of whiteness (someone once thought I looked native American though, which is hysterical). Most prejudice that affects me is because I'm a lady person, and we're definitely making better strides against that (for white women, anyways) than we are about racism.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Why do I sense a cultural 'tit for tat' cycling with a slight overlap occurring around all these political contrivances? Can't say i've ever heard the term and it certainly wouldn't insult me. I'm more concerned at how concerned people are that a treacherous word has arisen from the literate ashes to hurt our fragile sweet feelings.
Annnnnnyhow, cracker was a 90s british detective show. White guy. Pretty privilaged if I must say so myself. He seemed ok with the word. Something someone Coltrain?
 

RJ 17

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To answer both questions, I suppose it depends on whether or not you think this guy is racist:


I'm pretty sure racism doesn't need to have anything to do with "the ability to oppress others." That certainly can be part of it, but it's much simpler than that, isn't it? I always thought racism was hating/resenting/wanting to kill/etc someone based on their race.

If that isn't racism as defined in the dictionary and thus people feel it's acceptable to defend those such as the guy in the video as "not being racist because he's a minority" then we clearly need a new word to describe such behavior/beliefs...

I suggest "Super Racism". :3
 

Varrdy

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Ah-ah! You can't say "Cracker", because that's nasty! The politically-correct term is "Saltine-American".

Now being serious, racism can be directed at anyone, by anyone. It seems to be popular amongst wooly-minded pseudo-liberals to assert that minorities can't be racist and / or white people cannot be the victims of racism, which is untrue and somewhat offensive.

See also, "Women can't be sexist towards men"