There were kids in megaton. If humanity would be more comfortable with dozens of dead people and children then with rape, we seriously have to rethink our morals.Volf99 said:
Poll: Is featuring rape in a game going too far?
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I think there's a big, big difference between saying that playing rape-centric video games reads to rape and saying that it is wrong in and of itself to enjoy simulated rape. I don't think that we will have more rapists if games like Rapelay become more popular; I am, however, absolutely sure that it is not conducive to the formation of compassionate and reasoned views regarding sexual violence. The very idea of playing a video game where enjoyment is derived from inflicting trauma and pain upon a child is repulsive to me, not because of some imagined result, but because of the disgusting nature of the act itself.zehydra said:
A video game that just plopped a body in front of you and allowed you to act out violent fantasies on it would be equally objectionable. There's a difference between violence being used as a game mechanic in order to facilitate the exercising of skill/reflexes/strategy - that's COD, Painkiller, and the like - and a program that exists just to satisfy the most prurient and base violent impulses of the player without actually being a game at all.ProjectTrinity said:
The actual brutal act of rape would be going too far for my tastes, as for Rapelay they feature none of that.
Honestly? Freedom of speech. I can chainsaw a guy's face off in Gears. I can do the sickest, most cruel and painful tortures to others in Manhunt. Why can't I rape someone? Murder and genocide are PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE, but I better not even think of hurting someone's emotions through such a vile act as intercourse without consent?
Not to say rape isn't terrible, and MAYBE this is just me, but murder is worse. Torture takes it even further, IMO. I wouldn't personally want to do any of these things in a game without good justification for it. (or occasionally during a violent murder spree. Killing off entire towns for no reason can be fun in games) But to say they can't put it in a game is to censor them, and THAT is truly against my beliefs. People have the right to say what they want. There can be consequences to it, such as getting an AO rating, but so be it. As long as we all still have the right to freedom of speech and expression.
Besides, rape can be a very strong tool for getting an emotional response. Like killing off a child, there's a place for it but you don't want to do it a lot or just make it happen outside of any context.
Not to say rape isn't terrible, and MAYBE this is just me, but murder is worse. Torture takes it even further, IMO. I wouldn't personally want to do any of these things in a game without good justification for it. (or occasionally during a violent murder spree. Killing off entire towns for no reason can be fun in games) But to say they can't put it in a game is to censor them, and THAT is truly against my beliefs. People have the right to say what they want. There can be consequences to it, such as getting an AO rating, but so be it. As long as we all still have the right to freedom of speech and expression.
Besides, rape can be a very strong tool for getting an emotional response. Like killing off a child, there's a place for it but you don't want to do it a lot or just make it happen outside of any context.
This shouldn't even be a discussion. Films and novels brush this topic all the time and rarely does anyone bat an eye at the controversy unless it's a blockbuster and no one saw that sort of dark turn coming. It's not a question of is rape unacceptable in a video game it's a question of can it be portrayed in a way that would justify it's use. There are movies, books, and fanfictions that all use rape as a plot device or as a central topic. Many of them are created for sensationalist purposes because the creator didn't address the subject with the maturity and solemnity it requires - the same can be said of these hentai games. Do they have a right to exist? Absolutely; if someone had the ability to say that they didn't a lot of material would slide right on down the slippery slope in conjunction with that decision. Do games that use rape as a game mechanic to indulge in sexual fantasy just for sexual fantasy's sake approach the subject maturely? No. That's the question we ought to be asking; not "Can it be used?" but "How can using the depiction of rape actually make a game better?"
For instance, is it possible to characterize a protagonist that we aren't supposed to like as disgusting in a world where gamers have almost no problem with gratuitous violence or questionably crass dialogue without pushing the boundaries on even their social norms? In that situation depicting a rape sequence where it made sense for the character (as long as the game's tone made it clear that the act was not being glorified - note in this situation the act would not be interactive because to do so implies that the user ought to enable the character rather than being forced to witness the terrible act) may better portray the message of the game and that's just one scenario off the top of my head.
It's when you draw a definitive line in the sand saying "This is too far," that you cut off everything past that point. There's a lot of really good literature in both text and film that pushes the boundaries on convention. It is seen as controversial at the time and later upon further examination it is hailed as foreshadowing social movements or highlighting socio-idiosyncrasies of a culture.
TL;DR - No, that's stupid. Game developers just need to be mature enough to portray it with decency and meaning to an audience that would appreciate it.
For instance, is it possible to characterize a protagonist that we aren't supposed to like as disgusting in a world where gamers have almost no problem with gratuitous violence or questionably crass dialogue without pushing the boundaries on even their social norms? In that situation depicting a rape sequence where it made sense for the character (as long as the game's tone made it clear that the act was not being glorified - note in this situation the act would not be interactive because to do so implies that the user ought to enable the character rather than being forced to witness the terrible act) may better portray the message of the game and that's just one scenario off the top of my head.
It's when you draw a definitive line in the sand saying "This is too far," that you cut off everything past that point. There's a lot of really good literature in both text and film that pushes the boundaries on convention. It is seen as controversial at the time and later upon further examination it is hailed as foreshadowing social movements or highlighting socio-idiosyncrasies of a culture.
TL;DR - No, that's stupid. Game developers just need to be mature enough to portray it with decency and meaning to an audience that would appreciate it.
No, movies have done it, in books its used as a framing device.
Its no big deal, but if done wrong its just tasteless. And taste is everything here, if you use it incorrectly, you'll be bashed way harder then if you used it as a framing device or done well.
Its no big deal, but if done wrong its just tasteless. And taste is everything here, if you use it incorrectly, you'll be bashed way harder then if you used it as a framing device or done well.
I think that this largely reflects my own views on the subject.peruvianskys said:
I may being all quaint and gentile and what have you, but the idea of participating in a rape, virtual or otherwise, is anathema to me. The idea of entering a series of commands that would allow me to do so sickens me. How do you think it would work? Press R2 to hold hand across throat? Press R1 to violate? Would you gain an achievement for how much you long the victim suffer? I say this as someone who abhors censorship, but this transcends the imperative to make everything fair game.
This being said, as a sensitively handled plot device in which the player has no direct input, I can see this being effective. Perhaps as a series of flashbacks, which add depth to the player's character, or to justify his/ her pursuit of the antagonist. Efforts would have to be made to "desexualise" the act, and present it as an abhorrent act of torture, and the ultimate in degradation.
Edit: Akkronym's post a little above mine was fantastic. "Enabling" was the word that I was searching for .
Well, two World Wars, a prolonged Cold War and many quelled insurrections and criminal gangs has justified violence in the western world. The United States of America was founded on violence as in fact have most countries if you think about it. Nation's highest traditions and institutions are military ones, agents of violence.Volf99 said:
Robin Hood in the model for even criminal violence, that society itself can be a worse thief than an armed robber. And GTA games consist mainly of killing other gangsters and the games seem to go out of their way to depict the cops as oppressive and corrupt.
But rape is without justification or significant purpose, it serves nothing but individual lust at the cost of the most vulnerable's psyche. Yes, anthropologists may argue that rape serves a purpose but that's not the boy's own stories we want to hear in our narratives, or we are not ready to hear.
We want stories that follow the Campbell archetype: the hero with a thousand faces, one of those faces is not a raep-face! Even Niko Bellic fits this who is far from a typical criminal in how the game frames his violence as a necessity. To spite all his criminality he is ultimately heroic and gets his sex through heroism, women seem to want to have sex with him and seem glad for it afterwards, and you could see why.
The only area where rape could exist in games is if it is done by the enemies of the game, such as against "the princess" (who is not necessarily an actual princess). Star Wars films are LOADED with innuendo that Princess Leia got raped. I mean Jabba's lecherous tongue mawing then the next scene she is in some weird bondage outfit a-la "Leia Slave Girl outfit"... SUBTEXT!
Right, but in a game it's not anywhere near as realistic. Go play rape-lay, it's actually pretty hilarious in regards to its quality (yes I played it, I was curious, it was bad, I uninstalled it).DementedSheep said:
I would personally think that watching a rape that looks just like a real rape would be about as damaging to a person as taking part in a virtual one that is far from believable.
And of course, no one is being hurt and I doubt that a game like that would breed rapists.
My real point however was that if a movie can portray rape under the guise of art or emotional exploration etc, then so to can games. I don't think someone who gets his rocks off to a rape game is going to turn out any worse than a person who gets off to a rape film (and you never know, a rape game may keep people from seeking out real rape footage to appease their urges).
It'll be the new 'No Russian' in COD 9; Fantasy Warfare
In all seriousness, as a gameplay element its just in poor taste. As a plot or storypoint however, it can actually work. It would work great in a game like Silent Hill.
In all seriousness, as a gameplay element its just in poor taste. As a plot or storypoint however, it can actually work. It would work great in a game like Silent Hill.
Depends on the context really. If it's purely just a 'Rape this person so the news will go batshit and people will the game for lulz' then no, I don't agree with it.
However if it's in a story context and it is made to look as unpleasent as possible to make you really hate the the enemy you're fighting, then yes, I'm all for it.
I mean I'm not getting excited at the opportunity to watch some rape, I just like having a reason to fight the enemy, and to really get involved. Seeing a character you like have that happen to them makes you just want to go pwn someone even more. It's all well and good for the game to tell me I'm supposed to hate these bad guys, but unless I see them first hand doing bad things then I don't really care.
No russian in MW2 is a perfect example. You see first hand just how much of an asshole the bad guy is, and it makes you WANT to get him. If they cut that and just told me he did bad shit I'd be like 'k whatever'.
However if it's in a story context and it is made to look as unpleasent as possible to make you really hate the the enemy you're fighting, then yes, I'm all for it.
I mean I'm not getting excited at the opportunity to watch some rape, I just like having a reason to fight the enemy, and to really get involved. Seeing a character you like have that happen to them makes you just want to go pwn someone even more. It's all well and good for the game to tell me I'm supposed to hate these bad guys, but unless I see them first hand doing bad things then I don't really care.
No russian in MW2 is a perfect example. You see first hand just how much of an asshole the bad guy is, and it makes you WANT to get him. If they cut that and just told me he did bad shit I'd be like 'k whatever'.
No, there's nothing wrong with putting rape into a game, provided it has the correct rating. Rape is depicted in movies without consequence, and even if the media kicks up a fuss about "rape simulators"Which is exactly what Rapelay is, rape should be allowed to be depicted in games. Ratings are ratings for a reason, and rape is, (or should be) allowed to be depicted under the appropriate rating. Which doesn't actually exist in Australia.
Hmm... the idea itself, maybe. I don't know I kinda have mixed feelings about it that I don't think I can explain.
However, I don't think the world is ready for this yet. The majority of the public will be disgusted while the news has a field day on the subject. Not to mention all the blogs of rape survivors having PTSD triggers (I would assume that at the back of the game box that there would be a warning but would it stop them?).
Because hey, it's just a video game right?
However, I don't think the world is ready for this yet. The majority of the public will be disgusted while the news has a field day on the subject. Not to mention all the blogs of rape survivors having PTSD triggers (I would assume that at the back of the game box that there would be a warning but would it stop them?).
Because hey, it's just a video game right?