Poll: Is featuring rape in a game going too far?

[postblitz]

sure, add rape since we're slashing people's throats (among other things) anyway..
but don't make it biased: feature rape like the disgusting thing it is from both sides(without gender bias), and make it available for the enemy as well.

that should make things interesting

 

[Char-Nobyl]

My question is that if there can be games like Manhunt, the Punisher(PS2), and Dead to Rights:Retribution which has excessive violence in them where the player can interact and commit such acts, is it acceptable to have games that feature rape cut scenses

Well, yeah. That's different than what you asked, but yes. I don't think rape should be trivialized as a plot device, but it's free for use in novels, film, etc. One of the greatest Civil War novels of all time (Andersonville) featured a rape scene, and it was well executed, at least in the sense that it wasn't eroticized in any way.

or options for the player to interact with other characters and rape them?

...wait, nevermind. There's the poll question.

No. And if it's a player option in a game, it wouldn't be in a mainstream or even professionally-produced indie game, anyway. Simply put, there are very, very few games where a narrative can continue uninterrupted after the protagonist has raped someone, mostly because it strips them of anything resembling 'heroic' status and will likely offend the sensibilities of a part of its already limited audience.

It seems like many games have no problem allowing players the option to stab someone in the throat,

Mhm. Because stabbing someone in the throat is infinitely more morally objectionable than stabbing them, say, anywhere else that would still kill them.

and people have expressed desires to have the option to kill children in games like Fallout 3,

Ah, yes. Little Lamplight.

See, here's the thing about that situation: the kids weren't kids. They were preteens, certainly, but they were also more morally bankrupt than most of the other Wasteland factions. They had perpetuated a society that sheltered kids until they were sixteen, then exiled them to a town that was regularly ravaged by mutants and slavers, out of the belief that everyone over sixteen was inherently evil.

Of course, killing them all would be horrendous. Just kill the tinpot dictator in charge, and then put them on the road to a society that doesn't feed children to super mutants on the kid's birthday.

Anyhoo, back on topic. Where were we?

but few games seem to touch on the subject of rape. So escapist, do you think games that allow you to nuke towns (Fallout 3), graphically depict killing people (Manhunt), should also feature the option to rape people?

...yeah, still no. See, in both of those examples, there was a reason behind it. In the latter, it was survival. In the former, profit. Significantly less noble than the Manhunt example, to be sure, but ultimately, you're not just doing it because you have the option to. It's a job, in other words.

Now, tell me: how many situations would arise in a game where you would be called on to rape someone? Can you honestly say that it would be a feature for any other reason that simply for its own sake?

EDIT: People seem to be focused on the idea that women would be the one's being raped,

Yeah. Because that's how it usually happens.

but what about the idea of heterosexual or homosexual men being raped?

Okay, same question as before: dictate to me a set of reasonable circumstances within a game that would call for your character to anally rape another man.

Would you still feels as strongly opposed to the depiction of rape if the victim was male?

...wait, hang on. "Would you still"? Why are you asking as if making it gay rape somehow makes it more acceptable?

What about if the rapist was a woman?

Jesus Christ. At this point, you're just getting more and more off the original question, and that didn't seem entirely stable, either.

 

[Vetinarii]

EDIT: People seem to be focused on the idea that women would be the one's being raped, but what about the idea of heterosexual or homosexual men being raped? Would you still feels as strongly opposed to the depiction of rape if the victim was male? What about if the rapist was a woman?

By the definition of rape women cannot rape without being really stupid and sticking a finger or object into a male orifice.

Also I answered the poll by answering the question: "Is featuring rape in a game going too far?" because the actual poll is getting ahead of itself. A lot of thing have to happen before we start considering that option.

 

[Phisi]

Well... according to Australian Law, someone cannot give consent if under the influence so all media that has the guy waking up next to the ugly girl has rape in it or is suggesting rape (methinks that having rape in games makes it illegal/refused classification etc anyway) but if yu mean it being suggested or implied, then Dead Island already has rape in it.

 

[aoi287]

Having a game that centers around the player character running around raping people would be in pretty poor taste, but I certainly think it has the right to exist. I personally would be revolted by it, but I'm revolted by all kinds of other stuff and agree with its right to exist as well. For example, NTR. I hate it, but other people are into it, so good for them.

At any rate, it's just a game. Pretty sure people can differentiate between fantasy and reality, no matter what the content of the game is.

 

[Treblaine]

I wish the OP wouldn't have a double-negative in the poll as .

"is it going to far" becomes "IS is not right" with the opposite "No. Is it NOT NOT right."

The question is essentially "Rape in games. Yes or no"

The problem is if you just immediately select yes in approval of rape in game you are actually agreeing that that would be going too far-and so you are against rape in games, rararrgh MY BRAIN! If you immediately select "no" without reading you are actually saying it isn't going too far.

I hate it when people say "don't forget to do X" and if I say "I will" is that "I will forget", but if I say "I won't" is that "I won't forget" or "I won't do it".

 

[greenapples]

A game with its main theme as rape isnt in good taste, but neither is a game with its main theme being personal assassinations but I can list a dozen games that fit the latter that arent criticised and enjoyed by many.

its a matter of taste; if you enjoy it, play it. if you dont, dont. Shooting hundreds of faces off in a game isnt gonna make me a mass murderer, why would playing a game involving rape make me a rapist?

 

[A Gent of Villainous Intent]

A successful rape would probably get the game banned.

An attempted but foiled rape would probably not.

 

[TheGreatAndPowerfulZOG]

I don't know what the laws are like in Europe and around the world, but in the US we have some pretty strongly worded protection of the freedom of speech in our constitution, and the Supreme Court recently confirmed that video games will be considered speech. So, no, it should not be banned, and anyone trying to make laws against this kind of thing is imho a reactionary.

 

[Liviola]

If a game realistically depicted your character (in first person view) being raped and everything leading up to it and after it, I'd say it'd probably be one of the most horrifying experiences you can create for a game. Pretty much on par with the scenario of having to watch yourself slowly being tortured and cut apart. It could show the terror and powerlessness of such an experience (without the pain, but rape is much more of a psychological form of abuse), and perhaps make people who don't really consider the seriousness of what it means to be a rape victim rethink their position.

When most people think about rape, they think of a victim who is completely different from them and has nothing to do with them. But to put that experience in front of someone, especially in the medium of a game (that has a fundamental feature of the freedom of control), and then take that control away from the player, that brief period of time you will know exactly how traumatising and torture-like rape actually is.

I think in that kind of a context, rape is in the game for the purpose of making a strong statement (against it). For any reason that comes short of that, it would at risk of being unnecessary or kind of glamourising it, because it's not a fun topic despite the fact that lots of immature guys (and some girls) seem to love joking about it and throwing the term "rape" around casually.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

I was gonna throw out a worthless smartass reply, but this topic actually made me think.

As I see it, rape is a subject that is almost never directly explored in visual media, which means that there's plenty of ground to be broken, and a lot of interesting themes to be explored... and if you think that sounds absurd, I suggest you take a look at how many classic movies, books, songs, poems and games have been lauded as revolutionary for taking subjects like murder seriously and exploring the psychological and humanistic aspects of it, despite the act of murder being an even bigger IRL taboo (to be fair, though, the intentions behind the act are waaaaaaaay easier for an author to justify); I'd actually wager that there's even more depth to the subject of rape to be explored when compared to murder, due to the fact that murder stories tend to be one-sided and focused on the perpetrator due to the victim not doing a whole lot of anything after the crime is committed, whereas rape by itself results in a victim with a great deal of psychological, emotional and physical trauma to overcome.

This is all hypothetical, however, since this has never really been done before, largely due to the fact that rape itself is a huge societal taboo (for good reason), but upon further reflection, I believe the skirting of direct representations of rape actually has to do with the fact that we've already got a fervently-enforced taboo against explicit depictions of all forms of sexuality in all forms of media (but ESPECIALLY mainstream visual media, where it's downright ILLEGAL).

Remember the shit storm caused over the consensual unclothed pouncing in Mass Effect? Of course you do. Remember the last time you saw actual penetration in a sex scene in a movie that had a plot and a budget? Of course you don't. So many 1st-world countries have demonized sex as a terrible, corrupting, unnatural act despite the huge role it plays in the human experience, and have, in turn, outlawed graphic (read: no-bullshit) depictions of sex from the same movie theaters that display countless high-grossing torture-porn movies that depict teenagers having their ribcages splayed open by grotesque monsters. Now, this is the kind of bullshit most media purveyors will avoid like the plague, and we're still only talking about the consensual, everybody-involved-is-having-fun kind of sex. To take it a step further by depicting illegal, non-consensual, possibly violent sex in a way that doesn't try to be cute about it, is practically suicide for the investors, because it gives prudes that much more shit to fling when they campaign to have it stricken from the face of the earth "for the children".

With all of that being taken into account, where I stand is that rape as a subject, or even as a gameplay element, is not an intrinsically awful idea, and could even yield results with a great deal of artistic merit if done sensibly, tastefully, and taken seriously (how to go about achieving this is a question best left to minds greater than my own). However, implementing it in the same fundamentalist countries that think a penis entering a vagina is the single most foul image that could possibly be witnessed, and trying to set that precedent in a fledgling form of media, no less? Objectively. Bad. Idea.

 

[sergnb]

I can understand using rape as some kind of plot device.

Rape as something you can actually do in the game and is encouraged... yes, it's pushing it a little too far.

I mean, I could understand that games like RDR, where you are basically a bandit that goes around killing, stealing and just pissing off the law, could have some kind of sexual content there, because it fits the character. But games that have rape as the only feature? That's kind of... disturbing.

I'm not going to comment on the legal issues here. Videogames have been depicting illegal behaviours for decades now and they are still going. I mean, you can barely encounter any AAA game nowadays that doesn't have some kind of murder in it.

However, morally speaking, rape is something that is not necessary.

You see, when you kill someone in a game, it's not that you are a blood thirsty psycopath. It's a symbol of overcoming obstacles, just a mere test to see what's ahead in the road. Killing someone is just the easiest way to represent you have successfully accomplished a goal, overcame an inminent danger towards your character, and came victorious from a hostile encounter.

When you rape someone in a game... it's because... you kind of want to do it. Nobody would rape a girl in a videogame "just to see what the cutscene is like", out of curiosity. There is an inherent motivation to do it, be it more prominent in your mind or something you have deep in your subconscious.

TL;DR: Rape in games, legal? Yes. Moral? Not quite

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

It shouldn't be a taboo. There are allready games where you kill sentient being with little to no context. It hasnt been proven that this significantly increases your probability of commiting murder, and it hasn't been proved that games that "normalise" (which is an absurd description) rape wil increase your probability of raping someone.

Don't get me wrong there are games were it shouldn't be done and it is SOMETIMES going to far depeding on the context of the game. And I can't really remember playing a game where rape would have added anything to the plot. No act is inherently bad is what I'm trying to say here.

 

[Treblaine]

If a game realistically depicted your character (in first person view) being raped and everything leading up to it and after it, I'd say it'd probably be one of the most horrifying experiences you can create for a game. Pretty much on par with the scenario of having to watch yourself slowly being tortured and cut apart. It could show the terror and powerlessness of such an experience (without the pain, but rape is much more of a psychological form of abuse), and perhaps make people who don't really consider the seriousness of what it means to be a rape victim rethink their position.

When most people think about rape, they think of a victim who is completely different from them and has nothing to do with them. But to put that experience in front of someone, especially in the medium of a game (that has a fundamental feature of the freedom of control), and then take that control away from the player, that brief period of time you will know exactly how traumatising and torture-like rape actually is.

I think in that kind of a context, rape is in the game for the purpose of making a strong statement (against it). For any reason that comes short of that, it would at risk of being unnecessary or kind of glamourising it, because it's not a fun topic despite the fact that lots of immature guys (and some girls) seem to love joking about it and throwing the term "rape" around casually.

Both of those HAVE happened in games already.

FEAR 2 you are raped (by a woman, who may or may not be your own mother, uuu *BRRRAAFFF*) and Quake 4 you are captured by aliens and are the subject of a live autopsy where - among other things - you can look down to see your legs getting sawn off. I still can't even watch that and no, I will not embed the video of it or even link to it.

"seem to love joking about it and throwing the term "rape" around casually."

Classically, the term "rape" is not limited to "the crime of force sexual intercourse" but violation and taking or overcoming of something in an abhorrent way. Classically you can say "Lucas raped Indiana Jones" from how bas Indy 4 was, even if there was no coitus involved and that imagery was not intended in a metaphorical sense. Though Parker/Stone do seem to be intent on driving home the literal visualisation. PS: I can't watch South Park any more.

 

[RadiusXd]

A man, hunted by the government for experimental purposes. His only weapon? an extremely virulent form of HIV that he carries.

 

[Danzavare]

Violence has its own over-the-top fun in gameplay, rape doesn't. (Outside of a niche, I'm sure) Violence tends to be undifferentiated, in games we're essentially cutting down rag-dolls/machines. Rape is inherently a human issue (Bestiality aside). For there to be actual rape present you have to represent the human character as having some kind of meaningful human agency and then brutally deprive them of it. Rape just doesn't have the comical implications that violence does, nor is it so detached from the real world that people can be expected to suspend their beliefs enough to enjoy it.

There's just no real reason to incorporate it into gameplay. If you want that kind of stuff, I'm sure the internet is full of it.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Rape as a plot point? Sure.

Rape as a gameplay feature? HELL NO.

Agreed 100%. I don't think it is in any way acceptable to let the player rape someone. That's just breeding all kinds of bad mojo.

And... Genocide isn't? I am sometimes disturbed by what people think is perspective.

I'm not against rape in a game. Evil actions and all that. The bad mojo argument is basically saying that objects cause crimes instead of people. However, the inherent mature rating will be inevitable and that means that the number of developers willing to take a risk is close to zero.

 

[James Mann]

Showing visual depictions of rape in a game would probably not be a good idea, but including it as an aspect of the games. implying it, however explicitly, shouldn't be a problem as long as it serves a purpose. But for the most part video games are still viewed as being childs activity, and when you play games like call of duty multiplayer you can understand why. So, for most games it likely a terrible idea. Rape isn't like killing; rape is a much more personal crime; its not an act of war, its not like you're fighting to defend yourself or get revenge on someone who killed someone you loved, for the most part its not against anyone who has brought any trouble to you, the only reason is a persons sick perversions and power fantasies, for fun and no other reason. That being said there is no reason why most games would need to include rape, at all, ever. To include it without a very VERY good reason is good enough reason for that game not to exist. But in a game where it can be implimented well, a game where the exposure to it is limited to only to increase immersion, to imply it or imply its been done at one point or other;

A good example i think was Dragon Age: Origins, it implies rape on more than one occasion, firstly the City Elf Origin story, in which nobles kidnap a bunch of female elves, including the player character (or his to-be wife, depending on you're characters gender) and it is heavily implied that the reason for this is to rape the elves, and also implied that one of the elves was in fact raped. of course, the player is never told explicitly that the rape occurred, and the elf may only have been abused or have rape attempted.

Another example from the same series is that of the broodmothers, the chat implies that the broodmothers come from exposure to darkspawn taint and its heavily implied an aspect of rape here, especially to those of us that understand where babies come from and what the function of a broodmother is.

During both of these instances i never feel that they should have avoided the issue, after all the game was aiming to make the setting dark and to an extend realistic, the elves being almost slaves, and there was a time in history when slaves were treated that way. But of course, never is the player exposed graphically to the rape, which does not seem needed, as the implied rape is more than enough to bring the feelings the rape was supposed to have.

But in my opinion its an awkward bridge to cross, to direct about it and it seems like the game just becomes sick, but the subject needs not to be avoided at all costs, a game can use any subject to a certain degree to further develop the characters and story. Nothing should be completely off limits, but some things are harder to use than others. Although i would definately say there are things that games should never make playable, and this is one of those cases, if a game was to ever make rape playable, as either the victim or the assaulter it WOULD definately be crossing a line, this isn't like killing a bunch of npc's, where its fight or die; or even murdering npc civilians. As i said, rape is a power fantasy to the mentally sick, and to make that either playable or to an extend even graphically show it, is crossing a line.

 

[AaronDemoncia]

Nothing is Sacred, Everything is Permitted

 

[Blandman]

Doesn't Japan have a pretty low rate of rape compared to quite a few Western countries (including the US and UK)?

Just popping that in there. Bye.