Poll: Is there hope for the DCEU?

[Antonio Torrente]

Bad news for DC, BvS had the largest Friday-Sunday drop ever for a comic book movie. Now I'm really interested what next weekends numbers will come out to. If that is a indicator of a larger trend, WB may not even make their money back.

This early? I thought this will happen at least say the third week. This is bad news for them.

 

[Fox12]

As long as Snyder and Goyer (especially Goyer) GTFO, than the DCEU has a chance. Well, at least Wonder Woman, Batman, and maybe the Flash have a chance. Green Lantern too, if he ever gets in on the action.

But Cyborg and Aquaman (man, was his intro in BvS... aquard) are fucked.

I thought nothing was wrong with Aquaman's intro and I swear to you I am not saying that as a DC fanboy.

And how is Cyborg fucked?

Honestly, I think some people just want DC to fail. I've seen a lot of hate for Suicide Squad, and that movie actually looks good. I just saw BvS, and while it wasn't excellent, it certainly wasn't bad.

Besides, how many "bad" films has DC actually made? They knocked it out of the park with the Nolan trilogy, while Man of Steel, Watchmen, and BvS have done relatively well. The only real flop they've had was Green Lantern, which is also the only one that felt like it was trying to ape Marvel. All this doom saying is unfounded. DC is on shakier ground then Marvel, but it likely isn't going anywhere. In fact, I would say that the best things to come out of this whole super hero craze have been from DC.

 

[Trunkage]

snip

I personally found the first Captain America to be worse than man of steel. It was like Vzl Kilmer's Batman with any life sucked out of it (i.e. worse than Batman Forever). Which is funny because they made the 40s fun and interesting in Agent Carter (at least for the first season. The Second was pretty boring). It wasn't going to see Winter Solider but, of all things, Agents of Shield was making it look interesting. Considering how boring that show used to be, they were lucky

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Please clarify the last paragraph for me. Are you saying people watched the other Marvel films because of the success of the first Iron Man film, or because they liked the character of Iron Man? If the first, I agree with you, simply because Marvel proved it could make an enjoyable superhero movie and people were wondering if they could do it again with other characters. If the latter, then I'd say you couldn't be more wrong, especially considering how Iron Man is not in those films.

Yes, I meant the first.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

And Cyborg is fucked mainly because he has been in the Justice League a whole 4 years (insert "Wow!" meme here) and he is even less iconic and recognizable than Aquaman.

Maybe less iconic as a Leaguer, but Cyborg has a lot of name recognition as a Teen Titan (both comic and cartoon show) and if they can capture half of the personality Teen Titan Cyborg had I think the movie would do fine.

Though it won't, because they're just going to do a dark gritty 'real' cyborg who mopes for 95% of the movie because...reasons

I'm fine with a Cyborg who mopes, as long as he stops moping because of support from his friends. Which was the entire reason he joined the Teen Titans in the first placed, and it succeeded. I have no hope for the movie because of the tone that DC wants to set, as well as the iteration of the character that they are basing it on is arguably the worst.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

As long as Snyder and Goyer (especially Goyer) GTFO, than the DCEU has a chance. Well, at least Wonder Woman, Batman, and maybe the Flash have a chance. Green Lantern too, if he ever gets in on the action.

But Cyborg and Aquaman (man, was his intro in BvS... aquard) are fucked.

I thought nothing was wrong with Aquaman's intro and I swear to you I am not saying that as a DC fanboy.

And how is Cyborg fucked?

Honestly, I think some people just want DC to fail. I've seen a lot of hate for Suicide Squad, and that movie actually looks good. I just saw BvS, and while it wasn't excellent, it certainly wasn't bad.

Besides, how many "bad" films has DC actually made? They knocked it out of the park with the Nolan trilogy, while Man of Steel, Watchmen, and BvS have done relatively well. The only real flop they've had was Green Lantern, which is also the only one that felt like it was trying to ape Marvel. All this doom saying is unfounded. DC is on shakier ground then Marvel, but it likely isn't going anywhere. In fact, I would say that the best things to come out of this whole super hero craze have been from DC.

Because from what I have seen in the internet the majority seems to want out of a DC movie is:

Movies with a higher color saturation aesthetic and look, basically like this:

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/GalleryChar_1900x900_JusticeLeague_52ab8e54d0a6f0.42170553.jpg

More "Levity, Humor, and Wittyness" on the level Deadpool, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Avengers.

No "edgy" violance and in the case of Superman and others not have them kill and always, Always save people first.

And have a John Williams/Danny Elfmen esque soundtrack.

Basically have DC make their movies more like the first Superman movie and First Batman movie.

Because these people hates anything "Dark, Gritty, Edgy, and Overly Serious" but will also say "it works for Batman, but does not work for others"

And I am not generalizing because I have read 100s upon 100s of comments on various website forums and youtube comment sections all saying the same thing.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Hope as in will they push on to the Justice League film? Yeah. This is Batman v Superman. There's absolutely no way in hell this film will fail. It doesn't matter how many critics hate it.

Is there hope, as in the quality of films to come? Maybe. Wonder Woman might be good and Suicide Squad is definitely shaping up to be fun, something the DCEU seems to be allergic to. I wont be going to see any Batman or Superman films that come out in the future though. They've ruined all of Superman's future films and they've ruined Batman for me. So yeah, as far as DC's two hardest hitters are concerned, I'm not interested anymore. I'm actually a bit sad. And if the DCEU follows this tone then I'm also going to hate the Flash film.

 

[Hawki]

snip

I personally found the first Captain America to be worse than man of steel. It was like Vzl Kilmer's Batman with any life sucked out of it (i.e. worse than Batman Forever). Which is funny because they made the 40s fun and interesting in Agent Carter (at least for the first season. The Second was pretty boring). It wasn't going to see Winter Solider but, of all things, Agents of Shield was making it look interesting. Considering how boring that show used to be, they were lucky

Y'know, funnily enough, I had the opposite problem with Captain America. It suffers from tonal whiplash from the outset, then goes down the zanny route without looking back.We start off with a film that takes itself relatively seriously, and end with a film with laser guns and a villain who wants to rule the world because...he's evil?

That said, still put Man of Steel above most MCU films, so we agree there at least.

 

[mduncan50]

... and the only person who could stop him was an equally god-like being who was taught that he should suppress his superpowers and act more human.

This is the crux of why Man of Steel pissed me off. Instead of being the steadfast moral compass that they are in the comics, the Kents did nothing but make Clark doubt himself and his place in this world. It would be like if Uncle Ben told Peter Parker that "With great power, comes a great need to hide that power and not get involved because who knows what people may think of you."

 

[Kyrian007]

Honestly, I think some people just want DC to fail. I've seen a lot of hate for Suicide Squad, and that movie actually looks good. I just saw BvS, and while it wasn't excellent, it certainly wasn't bad.
Besides, how many "bad" films has DC actually made? They knocked it out of the park with the Nolan trilogy, while Man of Steel, Watchmen, and BvS have done relatively well. The only real flop they've had was Green Lantern, which is also the only one that felt like it was trying to ape Marvel. All this doom saying is unfounded. DC is on shakier ground then Marvel, but it likely isn't going anywhere. In fact, I would say that the best things to come out of this whole super hero craze have been from DC.

I don't think that's the problem. I'm generally accused of being a "hater" of DC movie stuff (at least since Man of Steel came out) and I know that I don't want DC to fail. I actually prefer DC comics to Marvel. The problem from my perspective is that I want the DC verse to be good... and right now I don't believe it is.

Bad DC films (flops just as bad as Green Lantern or worse) Superman 3 and 4, Supergirl, Batman and Robin, Steel, Catwoman. Plus the one I wanted to see the most as it's one of my favorite comics, Jonah Hex. Seriously, how do you screw up Jonah Hex, it was the easiest thing in the world to get right. Hire Joe Lansdale to write, and Don Coscaralli to direct and bam... easy success for a Jonah Hex movie.

And I have a different perspective of Suicide Squad. I'm seeing lots of parallels to the build up of terrible DC movies. I see some of the really early news and I think, "Wow that sounds really great." Then I see a casting decision or 2 and maybe a picture and I'm really looking forward to the movie. And then, with every new story, or leak, or trailer it just starts looking worse and worse. It happened with Green Lantern, it happened with Jonah Hex, it happened with Man of Steel, and it happened with BvS. When I first heard of Suicide Squad I thought, hey that will make for a good movie. And then with every casting choice, every costume picture, every trailer... every time it just makes it look worse and worse. I'm not even sure I want to watch it anymore. I'm hoping that they didn't want to give away the good parts in the previews and so what we are seeing is the non important, dumb bits from the movie in the trailers. But it's far more likely that they are putting their best foot forward in the trailers, meaning the whole movie is that weak.

Like you, I think the doomsaying is unfounded. DC is a gold mine of great movie ideas, characters, and stories. But until they get a decent creative team in control of making those movies... they will never have the kind of movie success that Marvel has seen.

 

[mduncan50]

Meh.

Yes. Dawn of Justice is better than most "Marvel" movies bar Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool.

That is a low bar, but that is my honest to God opinion. It is OK. Barely. A Director's cut might be much better or even worse. Such is life.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but I'm sure you know you're in a small minority that thinks this.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

So, after reading 8+ threads about BvS/DCEU, I've come to draw the conclusion that DC/WB simply do not give a shit about the characters they are portraying on the silver screen.

Jimmy Olsen? Fuck him, shoot him in the head and only acknowledge his existence in the closing credits!

Lois Lane? Make her completely incompetent and uncompelling!

Batman? Why not make him a remorseless murderer? That works, right? (Wrong)

Superman? Let's kill him in his second movie, before he even gets to establish himself as a superhero of truth and justice and compassion because he totally isn't pivotal to the entire DC universe, especially the Justice League, right? Right? (Also wrong)

Lex Luthor? Totally an insane, incomprehensible psychopath that more aligns with the Joker, that works, doesn't it? (No, it totally doesn't) Well, fuck you, we only need him for this one movie, because we kill Superman anyways!

Doomsday? We can totally treat him the same way Fox treated Deadpool in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and people will be totally okay with that, won't they? (Noep, did you not see how pissed off people were with how they treated Deadpool in that movie?)

I mean, honestly, for all the flaws of Man of Steel people point out, I thought it was a fairly decent movie. Superman was just starting to try to find himself and who he was, and Zodd put him in an impossible position, because here was a seasoned military veteran who was like a God to the people of the planet earth who wanted to terraform the planet and murder every single human being on it, and the only person who could stop him was an equally god-like being who was taught that he should suppress his superpowers and act more human. Yes, there was a lot of collateral damage in their fight, but he was literally the ONLY FUCKING PERSON ON THE ENTIRE PLANET who stood a chance at stopping Zodd, and he did so through the ONLY option available to him: Direct combat. Yes, likely a couple hundred to a couple thousand lives were lost in their fight, but the alternative was EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET DYING if he did not fight, or fought yet lost.

Given that, the fact that Batman, portrayed as a remorseless murderer, saw Superman as a threat because he ended an actual threat in the only way presented to him and was the only one capable of doing so, is just fucking absurd. The fact that a completely insane psychopath could goad him into it is even more absurd.

I mean, seriously, what DC/WB should have done is made a Batman movie, where Ben Affleck establishes himself as Batman, then made another Superman movie, where Superman realizes just how vulnerable humanity is and just how much he can do to protect them after the events of Man of Steel, and establish Lex Luthor as a serious rival, then, with Suicide Squad being a thing, make their antics so big that Batman and Superman have to join forces to stop the mayhem the Joker compels them to cause with Wonder Woman thrown in the mix, signaling the beginning of the Justice League, and build from there. Creating a Batman vs Superman movie where Batman is a remorseless killer, Superman is a superbeing with questionable morals and Lex Luthor is a psychopathic plot device there solely to initiate the conflict between the two and where Superman dies at the end just seems like an all around terrible decision that completely undermines any future attempt to build a Justice League.

TL;DNR: DC/WB seemed to crap all over its characters and doom their venture into creating an extended cinematic universe right from the get-go in the process. As such, I see little hope in their venture becoming a success in the long haul, because they completely screwed the pooch with BvS.

1. Doomsday in this movie is NOTHING like the Deadpool in the X-Men Origins: Wolvernine. Doomsday was still Doomsday to me. A savage, killing machine.

2. Batman should kill. the original Bob Kane and Bill Finger version of Batman did kill his enemies.

3. Why do we care about this movie at all? Justice League, Wonder Woman, and Suicide Squad are still being made so this movie is going to be irrelevent in the years to come because hey that's the problem with these Movie Cinematic Universes. None of them are stand alone stories.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

...probably. Their movies are still going to make a bunch of money, though not nearly as much as they could if they had... well, competent direction. Or were made by people who gave a shit. That was my biggest problem with Man of Steel and BvS - they just didn't have heart. They felt like the latest Fantastic 4 movie, something just farted out to hold onto an IP rather than something anyone working on it had passion about.

Which is... well, whatever. It's no skin off my nose if they do fail, or if they manage to rally with Suicide Squad and pull themselves into something that isn't terrible. I stopped caring about the DCEU when they rebooted Batman for no reason (though I did like Affleck as Batman, despite how out of character the script made him) and decided to go down the 'dark and edgy' route we all got sick of during the 90s.

However, that said... if worst comes to worst and they end up rebooting the movies... I suggest they don't bother with the origin stories. It's fucking Batman and Superman, you don't have to introduce those ancient fuckers. My Grandparents weren't even alive when they came into existence, it's weird how we keep re-hashing Superman's beginnings every 5 years as if it isn't culturally ingrained at this point. 'Blah Blah, fell from Krypton, raised by Ma 'n Pa Kent, whatever, I'm going to punch Lex Luthor in the cock' should be how it goes.

 

[GestaltEsper]

Hope for it happening? Yeah, of course it will.
Hope for it being any good? Depends on your own preferences.

Well, there's clearly hope in the sense that it's going to come into existence through the dual power of Marvel-envy and money.

But is it going to exist in any form that resembles, or appeals to fans of, its source material? Or the animated universe?

Ha. Ha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa[sub]aaaaaa[/sub][sub][sub]aaaaa...[/sub][/sub]
Yeah. Not so much. That DC's defenders have resorted to comparing their films to Michael Bay's Transformers should tell you everything you need to know about it.

Hopes now rest on this motley band of armed hobos. Feast your eyes.

Spoiler: And that's coming from someone who wants to like it.

Hope for the DCEU rests in the hands of a group of supervillains. That pretty much says it all right there.

 

[MCerberus]

The easiest way to restore hope in the DCMU is to... put hope IN the DCMU. This whole 'bleak nihilism with worrying political views and also EVERYTHING IS GRAY' thing is probably the biggest detriment, and we can place that all on Snyder. It seems everything and everyone's been Snyder'd except maybe Lex, AKA the one character people seem to like.

Further on this heading off-topic in spoiler

Spoiler

the best part of Super Hero movies has always been when someone was able to play their own vision of them as the character. Even in bad ones. RDJ plays RDJ Iron Man. Heath Ledger made a mental profile of what the Joker is about, and went method (might have killed him too). Reeves had an endlessly positive vision of what Supes could stand for. The only entertaining parts of the bad-bats were Carry and The Governator going total ham.

And then there's Deadpool, which would only be more perfect if North narrated. The heart, the spirit, invested actors wanting to bring energy to the characters. Then Snyder slaps them on the back of the head and tells them to be grittier

We'll see if the current coarse is sustainable this weekend though. The Friday-Sunday drop seems to have the markings of an onsetting Twitter Effect, but the tone of people who have seen it seems to be reminiscent of a Phantom Menace anti-review backlash.

 

[Politrukk]

Maybe. They need Suicide Squad to be good, and they need to hire some decent writers and directors to figure this out.

At this point they've already blown their load. They skipped all of the most interesting stuff. Robin is dead. Batman is old. The Jokers in prison. Harley's already estranged from him. Supes was killed by Doomsday. Darkseid's already been hinted at. What do they have left? Is anyone really excited about Aquaman? Are normal movie goers excited for Cyborg? All the best stuff is over. What's left to be excited about. The only real way for this to work is for them to utilize the dreaded R word. Again.

Honestly, it's not that hard to do what Marvel did. Just make a handful of okay movies and your set. Every single Marvel film has been mediocre. It's not that difficult. The storyline literally just needs to be coherent.

DC has been doing much better then the other expanded universel copycats though. I shudder to think of X-men.

They need that movie to be good because they already signed off on a sequel...
But yes I agree.

 

[mduncan50]

Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but I'm sure you know you're in a small minority that thinks this.

I am a STALKER fanboy, a person that displays real "literature elitism" and a polyglot.

I am used to being a minority around here... it is no big deal really.

But why do people always use that as an argument of some sorts? I can never quite gasp it...

Wasn't trying to argue with you, though the fact that you consider yourself and literature elitist while arguing about comic books is pretty amusing. The fact that you use polyglot instead of multilingual tells me all I need to know. You take the contrary opinion because it makes you feel special. Got it.