Poll: Jim Sterling Calls Out New Assassin's Creed (for racism/sexism?)

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CloudAtlas

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Zachary Amaranth said:
CloudAtlas said:
True, but it is still strange that at least the marketing for the coop part of Unity doesn't feature a female playable character so far, suggesting that there will be none. Strange because it would make many people happy without hurting anyone.
Actually, it's probably not strange. Remember, this is the gaming industry. They didn't want Ellie on TLOU's cover, they kept whatshername off the cover of BSI, and the biggest concession Mass Effect got was a reversible jacket.
Yea... maybe not. But I still find it weird. I mean, I can somehow understand that you don't want to feature FemShep on the Mass Effect cover so as not to lead potential buyers to believe they would have to play as a woman (the horror!), or that featuring Ellie and Elizabeth on the respective covers will lead potential buyers to (correctly) believe that they have to deal a lot with a girl in these two games (somewhat of a horror or... as the scared customers might put it... gay), but here? Does knowing of the mere possibility to play as a female character already put people off? Does the mere inclusion of one badass assassin chicks along three badass assassin dudes already make the game not manly enough for even the manliest of dudebros? And does it put off more manly dudebros than it would attract women and anyone else just looking for something different?
I find that hard to believe even if I adopt the most pessimist view of game customers I can imagine.
 

crazygameguy4ever

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they are all similar.. bearded white guys.. why not girl assassins? or Asian assassins? or characters other then white dudes? are the programmers at ubisoft too lazy to make other characters?
 

Maeshone

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Apparently they're all the same dude, the main character of the game. According to the live demo that was just shown the game will feature character customization, which would account for the slight differences of the guys in the artwork.
 

white_wolf

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I get what he's saying but to me its just old and over cliche really 4 guys? So imaganitive, so inventive I can't understand why more games don't employ the all male hero troupe more often...maybe they'll give us the gender select for the co op but then if they did are the girls going to dress like order assassins or pin ups? Cuz I think ubi will do the latter. At least ubi didn't go ahead and make another article saying how girls are unrealistic in the french revolution area or state how in the FR that it was all about men so maybe we'll at least get choices in gender rather then choices on male body type we'd like our co-op assassin to have. I'm holding off on calling them sexist but there is no reason now that Desmond is dead for male only leads they can let us pick our gender at the intro or make more stories of female assassins doing cool things rather then assassins barbie addition.
 

Erttheking

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Rozalia1 said:
To answer your question, yes one of the characters being black would've made him more interesting, because it would imply that the designers actually gave a shit. Have one of them be a woman, have one of them be really short or really fat, SOMETHING to make it look like we're not dealing with a group of quintuplets with the same horrible taste in facial hair.

And guys, can one person not make a comment about how boringly designed a box art is without everyone getting hysterical over the isms?
 

Maeshone

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RatherDull said:
So this is why they don't properly set Assassin's Creed in modern day. Got to find some way to get away with consistently white protagonists.
"Consistently white"

AC: Middle-eastern
ACII, Brotherhood, Revelations: Italian
ACIII: Native American
AC Liberation: Black Female
ACIV: Welsh

so, 1 out of 7 is white. Good job there.
 

Falseprophet

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Like the OP says, Ubisoft has a pretty good track record on cultural representation with the AC series, so I'm not too bothered by that. Although why do they all have the exact same build? Same height, same trim physique, same proportions. I know it's easier for the art team to come up with two or three character models and just swap out heads, and not have to adjust clothing to fit different sized models. But it makes them look like a bunch of interchangeable action figures instead of individual human beings. Couldn't a couple of them have been a bit taller, or shorter, or fatter, or more heavily-muscled?

But, there's no excuse for not having a woman as a playable character. The was by a woman [http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/charlotte-corday-assassinates-marat]!

 

michael87cn

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They don't look the same to me. They are covered with hoods. How can anyone say they look the same? You can only see a chin and a beard. What the hell?

I think its safe to say this is a case of a community defending someone they like. But sometimes people say inappropriate things and should be held accountable for that. Entertainers should be no exception.

Racist remark or Racist joke? Inappropriate either way. Defense falls flat.
 

Maeshone

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RatherDull said:
Maeshone said:
RatherDull said:
So this is why they don't properly set Assassin's Creed in modern day. Got to find some way to get away with consistently white protagonists.
"Consistently white"

AC: Middle-eastern
ACII, Brotherhood, Revelations: Italian
ACIII: Native American
AC Liberation: Black Female
ACIV: Welsh

so, 1 out of 7 is white. Good job there.
AC1 he had the whitey face of Desmond who is white because of the animus. So that doesn't count.
ACII: Since when is Italian not white?
ACIII: He's half white. Had to get SOME white in there.
AC Liberation: never played it so I can't say
ACIV: Again, since when is Welsh not white?
Really, you think Altaïr looks white? I think he looks middle-eastern.
As for Ezio, I suppose that's a fair enough point.
Connor doesn't look white either.
Edward was the one I was referring to when I said 1 out of 7 was white. I'll have to amend that to 2 out of 5, since Ezio counts as white as well.

Falseprophet said:
Although why do they all have the exact same build? Same height, same trim physique, same proportions. I know it's easier for the art team to come up with two or three character models and just swap out heads, and not have to adjust clothing to fit different sized models. But it makes them look like a bunch of interchangeable action figures instead of individual human beings. Couldn't a couple of them have been a bit taller, or shorter, or fatter, or more heavily-muscled?
The reason they all look the same is because they're all the same guy. In co-op, everyone plays as their version of Arno, who will look different depending on how you customize him
 

teamcharlie

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It's a joke, and Jim's not wrong. The only difference among the four appears to be cloak color and facial hair.

I get that it's cheaper for them to do 4-player co-op with palette-swapped character models than actually different ones, but y'know what would be even cheaper? Not doing co-op. Or they could have actually spent a bit more money and recognized that not everybody wants to be a white European man in their video games, and that 4-player co-op in a video game series that has in the past actually had a pretty racially diverse cast of playable characters would have been a great instance to let people step outside of the expected and culturally limiting perspective of white European guy while still playing (and maybe even being more inclined to buy!) their game.

Or they could have at least---at least given the characters the same basic build but changed some facial features and skin color. How much assassining do they even do with their noses and eyelids, anyway?
 

Something Amyss

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RatherDull said:
AC Liberation: never played it so I can't say
She's also half white.

erttheking said:
Rozalia1 said:
To answer your question, yes one of the characters being black would've made him more interesting, because it would imply that the designers actually gave a shit. Have one of them be a woman, have one of them be really short or really fat, SOMETHING to make it look like we're not dealing with a group of quintuplets with the same horrible taste in facial hair.

And guys, can one person not make a comment about how boringly designed a box art is without everyone getting hysterical over the isms?
More specifically, the lack of a bland uniformity to their appearance would be more interesting simply by the absence of bland uniformity. This isn't to speak to the quality of the characters, but rather to the interest in variety in almost every aspect of life. I say "almost" because apparently this doesn't apply to video game protagonists.
 

Lunar Templar

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-.- No, it's note racist, or sexist its Jim making a joke.

and after seeing that cast line up there, I can totally see where he'd get it from.

and as a side note; This 'OH MEH GERD!! ______ SAID A THING THAT MIGHT BE RACIST/SEXIST!!' needs to fucking stop. Idiotic gun jumping bullshit like this doesn't help anything and actually cheapens two rather serious issues.
 

Something Amyss

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Maeshone said:
Really, you think Altaïr looks white? I think he looks middle-eastern.
Altair's facial features are remarkably similar to Desmond's.

teamcharlie said:
I get that it's cheaper for them to do 4-player co-op with palette-swapped character models than actually different ones, but y'know what would be even cheaper? Not doing co-op.
But all games must have online multiplayer. The gaming gods have demanded it!
 

Maeshone

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LifeCharacter said:
Maeshone said:
I'll have to amend that to 2 out of 5, since Ezio counts as white as well.
3/6 if you include Unity and assume the four men portrayed are just the same guy, 7/10 if Ubisoft really went with four distinct, white protagonists. And let's not forget about modern whitey Desmond, the actual protagonist of the first, what, 5 games?
I'm not assuming that they're the same guy, it was explicitly said at the latest live interview on Twitch.tv. So yeah, 3/6, which is still pretty good, no? Also Desmond, yes. But people never count the modern day storyline in anything when it comes to AC, which I find odd since I really like it... :p

WIth Desmond included, that's 4/7 protagonists that are white, and one that is deliberately left unknown (modern day storyline in Black Flag)

Zachary Amaranth said:
Maeshone said:
Really, you think Altaïr looks white? I think he looks middle-eastern.
Altair's facial features are remarkably similar to Desmond's.
They look exactly the same. And I always thought Desmond looked middle-eastern, at least in Assassins Creed 1. I could just be a terrible judge of character design though.
 

Erttheking

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jpz719 said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
jpz719 said:
...It's 1790's France, I.E, mostly white dudes. Of course the protagonists are going to be white.
Which is exactly why AC 3 featured a white protagonist.
To be fair it was a black man in France, not a bad thing mind you, would stick out rather badly in a game about stealth.
So would a bunch of guys running around in white cloaks that stick out like a sore thumb.
 

Lightknight

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Cowabungaa said:
But even people of colour weren't strange in late-18th century Paris, especially folk of mixed race.
How common? Got numbers?

Right now the only numbers a basic internet search comes up with is "tens of thousands" of the population in Paris is African at all. Now, that's not necessarily black and that's a vague/wide range from 4% of the population if it's 90k to around 1% if closer to 20k. All this is in mind with the greatest immigration from Africa being in the 1920's. France as a whole is listed as having a 3.5% black demographic and Paris isn't at the top of the list. This is according to this document but you'll have to know French or use some kind of translator: http://www.conventioncitoyenne.com/documents/oubliesdelegalite.pdf

So considering that there's 6 million north Africans and only 2 million black people then you'll have to be extra careful on the numbers and statistics you get since numbers on Africans don't equate to black people and France outlawed taking statistics based on race and belief some time ago.

So when you say common/uncommon I'd say they're still not that common in Paris whereas Louisiana has a rich history of ethnic diversity.

Now, back in the 18th century? They were likely outright rare. People from all over the world assisted France in independence. Saying that black people played a significant role can still be true if they were few in number. I'd say the atomic bomb played a significant role in WWII but how many showed up?

As for your argument that the critique we're giving is sexist by itself makes little sense, it would mean we could give no critique at all.
Correct. Whenever you say that you'd rather this person of X race and Y gender be a Z Race and W gender you are making an inherently racist and sexist request. So yes, my argument is somewhat along those lines in games with few or only one playable characters. Games that are overtly racist or ones that have many characters with a surprising absence of diversity may be critiqued because then you're saying a group isn't proportionately represented rather than complaining that a character isn't a race/gender you "prefer (aka, racial and gender bias).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ

Getting upset that a white male isn't a black female is not inherently different from someone getting upset that a black female isn't a white male. Any claims to the contrary is rationalizing a basic axiomatic relationship between those two scenarios.

In a world where the vast majority of the developed world is white then you're going to have to get used to seeing the majority far more often than the minority. Is someone racist for reaching into a bag of marbles and pulling out a white one when the bag of 100 marbles has 80 white ones? Is it racist to create something in the image of the majority of your clients? Now, as you pull out more and more marbles you'd better sure as heck start pulling out non-white marbles because they are in there. But if you can only pull out one you should expect a white one and not be all *gasp* about it having the audacity to not be something else.

I agree that where possible diversity should be offered either in the form of alternate main characters or fully customizeable protagonists. But I'm guessing these four characters are all the same guy in different clothes or something similar to that. Because from each of their own reference points they are all the main character. Heavily scripted games require a stable (non-customizeable) protagonist if you want the protagonist to speak. Voice acting being what it is.
 

mecegirl

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jpz719 said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
jpz719 said:
...It's 1790's France, I.E, mostly white dudes. Of course the protagonists are going to be white.
Which is exactly why AC 3 featured a white protagonist.
To be fair it was a black man in France, not a bad thing mind you, would stick out rather badly in a game about stealth.
No. No he wouldn't. Unless he was the biracial son of a wealthy man, they would assume that he was someone's servant and let him go about his business.
 

Lightknight

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mecegirl said:
jpz719 said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
jpz719 said:
...It's 1790's France, I.E, mostly white dudes. Of course the protagonists are going to be white.
Which is exactly why AC 3 featured a white protagonist.
To be fair it was a black man in France, not a bad thing mind you, would stick out rather badly in a game about stealth.
No. No he wouldn't. Unless he was the biracial son of a wealthy man, they would assume that he was someone's servant and let him go about his business.
That's actually a very interesting point. I hadn't considered that. I still think they were rare enough to constitute attention but you're probably right. Would it have been acceptable for such a servant to run or jostle his/her way through a crowd?