Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits

[Joccaren]

The lines between developers and publishers are incredibly blurred anyway, so it doesnt make a difference more often than not.

Yes it is a big difference.

When talking about consumers and Devs/Publishers, not so much.

The difference is also quite blurred in many cases, as Smash has said. I.E: The ME3 ending debacle. Is EA different from Bioware? Has Bioware come out and said something different to EA? Have they both said the same thing? Is EA forcing Bioware to say something? - Where does one start, and the other end. Many used to think EA had forced Bioware to make the bad endings, and were forcing them to make anti-fan PR statements. Many have turned to thinking it is purely Bioware now. The whole thing is confused, and what influence EA is having over Bioware is unclear.

Anyway, I believe the point Smash was trying to make is that they work against the consumer if the dev/publisher is on the other side in most cases.
Most people will disagree with this. Partially because of the "I'm a consumer, and I'm right" attitude, but also because such a stance can be genuinely wrong/misguided at times. The Publisher/Dev is not always right.

Not going into my opinions on the issue of EC v Jim, but I agree that there are times where the lines between publisher and developer become blurred.

 

[Smithburg]

One thing you need to know. Free Speech isn't covered in online gaming. The EULA states that, and you can be banned for hate speech and such. They could very easily and very legally use functions like what they said in EC. The point is it could hurt business, that is why they don't do it. But while free speech is nice, it is not a reason for this argument because in this argument you don't actually have free speech.

 

[Smithburg]

ANYONE GOT A GUN I CAN BORROW

But... Shepard didn't talk you into killing yourself, you don't gotta do it!

 

[zombieshark6666]

Am I the only one who likes EC? It's pretty much the only high-level discussion show that exists about games.

I've enjoyed many of their shows, including the great Kinect Disconnect. I learn a lot from Extra Credits, but there are times when I cringe so much I have to shut down the tab and do something else.

 

[Poster1234]

In my opinion, there isn't really a point in comparing Jim and EC, as they simply don't deal in the same line of work.

I'm usually not the biggest fan of Jim's humor, but I can certainly see why it would appeal to some. As for the actual insight he provides, it is usually more about advising consumers, wondering how to resist the abuse of the big corporations, and giving his opinion on the many, many controversies we gamers seem to love so much.
EC, on the other hand, isn't about opinions, but attempting to build a "How to make a game" guidebook aimed at (mostly) indy devs. This is where I find they usually shine, way more than when taking stances in controvercies, and, although I don't always agree with what they think of certain mechanics, I don't see how anyone can call "pretentious" those who made one of the most humble and moving videos about game addiction I have ever seen (It's on their youtube channel, Extracreditz).

Still, my vote'll go to EC, because I simply find what they do more useful and unique, but I sincerly believe there is little point in comparing the two.

 

[JoshuaMadoc]

ANYONE GOT A GUN I CAN BORROW

But... Shepard didn't talk you into killing yourself, you don't gotta do it!

B-but my logic is too different... I've GOT to be indoctrinated!! WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

Also captcha called me "good for nothing". So much for open thinking.

 

[Westaway]

They both have solutions for problems. I find myself agreeing more often with EC. Jim can go fuck himself, though. Did you see those first episodes? He must have thought that we were all twelve, he laid the persona on so hard. I understood it immediately,and so did everyone else. He got better, IE You only get the persona at the beginning and end, but that doesn't erase what he did. Also, when that guy had valid criticisms about his Mario Cart review, he just blew him off!

I'm not the sensitive type, but I know when someone thinks you're an idiot. That's why I only watch him every once in a while, and I watch every EC episode.

 

[Navvan]

I've never felt talked down when watching an extra-credits episode. Yes they explain things that maybe don't need to be explained, but when a professional talks about their profession they have to assume the audience knows minimal information about the topic. Otherwise it becomes very easy to blur the line and start talking about something the audience does not know as if they did. You can adjust that "minimal level" depending on the audience, but as a web-show trying to reach the broadest audience they have to assume that the person knows very little. I don't always agree with their opinions, but they generally make good arguments for their points. Overall I usually take something away from an episode of EC that I didn't know before.

Jim also usually makes a good argument although its more in the form of a rant than a lecture/podium debate. However I usually don't take away anything from a Sterling episode that I hadn't already known. I also don't really care for the whole persona/act thing that he does to bring in a crowd.

However Jim and EC have two different goals (I feel). EC is more of an information show that tries to provide information/options about topics that may not have occurred to people. Jim is an opinion show with a persona act. Yes both provide information/opinion but the focus they give is significantly different.

EC gets my vote based solely on the only criteria I care about when judging a web show. I personally am more entertained and I learn more from watching the show.

 

[HarryScull]

Extra credits tackle complex issues, make valid points in a sophisticated way and provide an elegant solution

Jim Sterling yells obscenities down a microphone at problems that anyone with 1/2 a brain can see and derive a solution for and acts like a slightly more intelligent breed of xbox live kid

i find it very ironic that the RPG elitist's community of the escapist like Jim more

 

[Smithburg]

*Yawn*

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.359349-Extra-Credits-Takes-a-Stab-at-the-Mass-Effect-3-issues#14172957

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.313335-Extra-credits-latest-video-cutscenes#12697823

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.227629-Extra-Credits-No-Redeeming-Value#7829762

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.296520-My-Criticism-of-Narrative-Mechanics-by-Extra-Credits#11723057

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.296584-Extra-Credits-Role-of-the-Player-My-own-personal-view#11726725

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.282680-Pretentious-A-holes-Insult-Extra-Credits-Behind-Their-Backs#11093173

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.280426-A-Response-to-Extra-Credits-Learning-from-Other-M#10959251

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.270508-Extra-Credits-is-great-but-the-voice#10397192

There you go. There are more than enough posts in those threads explaining why EC sucked. Should last you for a while.

This is just from the first page of the escapist forums search, by the way. I found a lot more through google and I didnt even bother looking at the other 10 pages I found here.

Most of the people in those posts are actually saying how much they like or enjoy EC so your argument is a little flat there.


EC tries to be a show that can be educational or illuminating to people in games, and people that don't know games. They aren't being pretentious, they love what they are doing and they want to show it to other people as well.

 

[TheScottishFella]

Extra Credits are not game journalists. They make a webshow, yes, but this does not make them a friggin journalist. They approach the problem from both sides, even if it means that they have to bring out the arguments that the "gamer" does not want to hear.

Look, just go search for one of the countless Extra Credits threads. People there have explained time and time again why Extra Credits is nothing but a series of pretentious, artsy bullshit. Its not that gamers dont want to here their points because they are bringing some uncomfortable fact to light, its that they are just fucking wrong.

@ the ongoing point of "they talk down to us". Yes, the same way a professor does (or at least most of my profs do).

At least professors know their shit.

Oh good lord I hate when people do this. Their OPINIONS are WRONG?

Surely you see the logical fallacy in that, right?

Granted, there is no such thing as a wrong opinion. Stupid opinions do exist though. *Insert shit eating analogy here*

But isn't that subjective to a persons viewpoint? So really there is no stupid opinions just personal beliefs on what a stupid opinion is.

I like Jim Sterling and I like EC. Both can have good arguments. I watch them both just to give me something to think about.

Personally I love the way they present their arguments showing how they feel towards something then let you make up your mind on how you feel, they never force their opinions down your throat they just want to show you how they feel or what the future could hold. It can have its ups and downs for both shows but I love them both.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I really like Jim Sterling, for what he says in his show on here, but I didn't care much about EC even when they were here. It's a pretty easy choice as far as I'm concerned

 

[RatRace123]

I like both of 'em, but gotta give the slight nod to Jim, if only because I find myself agreeing with him on more issues more than the EC team.

And I can see how they (EC) might be seen as pretentious, and sometimes that does come on pretty thickly.

 

[wooty]

Gotta side with Jimmy boy on this one, he injects some humour into his rants discussions. Also, it feels like hes talking to me, not at/down at me.

 

[Frostbyte666]

I can't vote on either because I enjoy watching both. though I did hate the Jimquisition when it 1st began it grew on me (plus British WOO!), but it's still not something I'd show to people who aren't already a gamer. Extra Credits however I find good for those new to the industry, hell my dad was fascinated by the music in videogames episode. I'd say that they both bring up good points even if EC has a rose tinted view and Jim goes a touch too far in the arrogant arsehole, which, at points becomes magnificent bastard (Ubisoft episode).

Also does anyone else have problems trying to watch Jim's episode on dynasty warriors?

 

[burningdragoon]

Here's a real shocker folks. Not only do I like both shows, but I also sometimes *gasp* disagree with both. Sometimes when I disagree I can still see the merit of their stance and sometimes I just flat out disagree. I can also see how people might not like the arrogance up to 11 character that Jim puts on (took me a while to warm up to it) or EC's overwhelming optimism (which does put me off sometimes). Maybe I'm just weird like that...

I will say I do prefer the visual gags EC does a lot more than Jim's (purposely) bad drawings and photoshop jobs... though Jim has a hard on for FFIX music so I guess that's a draw as well.

 

[freaper]

Both really.

Jim's commentary is fairly down to earth, and he gives solid answers to everyday problems the industry and specific developers have.

EC deals with broader problems, and their answers are often, if not always, very utopian. People need to understand that not everything they say can be immediately applied, but that the basic idea for a better functioning, and more overt gaming community is already present in their dialogue.

 

[hawkeye52]

I have tried listening to Jim Sterling on 3-4 seperate occasions I think now. Every time it just sounds like he is personally trying to drive nails into my ears. I think the episode that was the worst for me by him was the CoD episode nearer to the beginning of his show which resulted in me typing 1500 word rebuttal I think. Seriously the guy really fucks me off and people like him and present in the manner he does also.

EC on the other hand seem to have things more under control (that's the best way I can describe it) and although they have come off a bit "game are the only way forwards for a better society" sometimes I still prefer them overall by a long margin though not enough for me to bother going to PA.

 

[Vhite]

I think that we need them both, and nothing has convinced me more about variety of opinions than this topic. In fact we need more of them.

 

[Angry Camel]

Overall, I have to go with Jim. Being religious, his God jokes really irritate me sometimes, but he just makes such utterly brilliant points. Not to mention what a nosedive he managed to pull himself out of. I thought he was doomed from the start.

Extra Credits make some really good points as well, but they can be a bit patronising and a bit caught up in artistic issues. I never really watched them too much to have a deep opinion of EC, but they just didn't grab me in the same way. Jim is always taking the piss out of himself, the EC team always seemed a bit oversure of themselves.

Off-topicCaptcha: sonic screw driver. Is it bad the first thing I thought of was Sonic performing Samus' screw attack?)